Project: Building a Saiga 12k "airsoft gun" from an AK - what

[peelo 0]

Apologies in advance for my poor Finish rallye-driver english, i lack the specifig terms and words needed... 

 

For those who dont know "airsoft" or guns related to it, its more or less a sister-sport to more commonly known "paintball" with the difference in weapons and gear. Paintball is more or less a "competitive sport" while airsoft aims to maximum realism and "military simulation" via replicating or using real life military gear and gun-acessories. Guns used are very accurate replicas of their real counterparts and shoot 6mm plastic pellets that do not contain paint.

Sadly the "crowd favorite" of this forum the Saiga shotgun has yet to be made as an airsoft-gun. I intend to remedy that but i need your help.

 

As Saiga is based on an AK, and we have LOTS of AK-variants as airsoft-guns, it an obvious choise. I recently aquired an AK with rare'ish steel-made body as most airsoft guns are made of aluminium, this one can be modified much more better then an alu-body. 

 

First things first, what im looking for as a "final look" is this:

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh07/saiga_12k-1.jpg

 

The front end is where Saiga becomes very different from a regular AK74 that was my AKs "base form" - I should be able to fabricate any components seen from the outside fairly easily as airsoft gun operate via electricity and the entire AKs front can be removed and the airsoft-gun will still cycle. Mounting an airsoft-barrel and such should be no problem. 

 

First things first, "rear sight base"

 

Found a picture of it right here, from this forum:

http://s59.photobucket.com/user/localfiend/media/Saiga%2012/rightrear.jpg.html

What im interested is that "round" shaped back end of the gas-unit, is it just called "sight base" ?. In an airsoft-AK we call it "front set" of an AK, it mounts the barrel to the body in an airsoft AK and is rather large component.

In a real Saiga its round from the top while on a AK74 its flat due to the AK sights. 

 

There also seem to metal "plates" reinforcing the body, going both sides. I found ONE picture that somewhat shows they are welded part to the body(?). 

Are the reinforcements part of the body or part of the "sight base" ? Are there pictures of that part alone? Can it be purchased separately?

I need to decide between making a replica or bying a real one if they are aviable.

 

For my luck, it seems the front gas block is quite a simple construct, atleast to make a replica of if compared to a part found in an AK. That adjustment screw however seems rather unique. 
How much does an entire gas block "setup" cost? With only parts to externaly look the part, does not need ot function in any way. According to local laws, its possible to purchase the entire part without any permits. 

Im between bying or trying to build a replica. 

 

Then back to THIS picture: 

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh07/saiga_12k-1.jpg

 

That strange "sight rail" above the gas-tube. What is that? Can i buy that from somewhere? Basicly, EVERY video-game has that, its a noticable detail id like to have in my build and it may also come in handy since it takes the sights a bit higher so i can aim better while wearing high-profile goggles.

 

Rest of the small details i should be able to fabricate. 

 

I spent nearly two hours writing this, re-writing it while looking saiga-pics on google and fixing typos etc... Heres hoping i made any sense to anyone.

[XD45 7,124]

Probably have more luck on an airsoft forum.

[peelo 0]

Probably have more luck on an airsoft forum.

 

I know enough of airsoft, what i need is info on REAL gun. Cant find many owners of Saigas on airsoft-forums.

[mancat 2,368]

I wouldn't get too worried about small details, since you will never replicate some of the more unique features of the Saiga-12, such as the magazine design or the front trunnion/rivet pattern.

 

I would just chop off part of the existing rear sight base to bring it level with the top of the gas block, and fabricate a similar sight rail to what you see on the S-12K. You will also need the S-12K handguard, you should be able to order one online, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to get one shipped to Finland, and there are probably some for sale in Finland.

 

The handguard anchors to a pin in the gas block, you will need to replace the existing pin (if the airsoft rifle uses them) with a longer 3mm pin to anchor the handguard.

 

Remove the front sight block.

 

It will look somewhat like an S-12K with exception of the receiver and magazine differences... Anyone that is familiar with the real thing will recognize it as a pretty obvious fake though. It is a game based on fake guns, so maybe nobody will care.

[peelo 0]

Magazine I can make out of Saiga mag shell, quite easy actually.

 

Rivets and pins will need some effort but also easy since none are needed in airsoft gun.

 

The sight in the picture is bit too detailed for me to make accurately, I'd prefer to buy that.

 

It's been proven in many cases that even professional soldiers and police can't tell the difference between airsoft and real gun before picking it up.

As a perfectionist, I won't settle for anything less

[saltydecimator 482]

pictruuuuuuures!!! make it easy on us, lotsa words up there...

 

greetings from good ol UsA  btw!!

Edited December 27, 2015 by saltydecimator

[JoeAK 337]

If it doesn't need to look exact, a good base gun would be an RPK 74m, The flat "plates" you see on the sides towards the front of the receiver, are the Saiga-12's beefed up front trunnion (the part that the barrel, and rear sight base mount too on a regular AK). An RPK variant also has a beefed up front trunnion, so it would look kinda close, without having to do too much too it. The RPK-74m will also have the same folding stock mechanism.

 

If you're wanting to use actual saiga magazine bodies, you probably shouldn't base this off of a TM cloned AK, since everything screws into the area you would need to remove for the magazine.

 

You'll need to make your own barrel, gas block, and gas tube, and you'll have to try and find a place to buy the handgaurd.

 

The rail on top is a short sight rib, like is common on more traditional shotguns, you might be able to buy one, or you could possibly modify a regular sight rib to look the part.

 

 

And now to add more choices, some guys modify S-12s to look as much like an AK as they can, which would simplify your build quite a bit.

 

(not my picture, not sure whose it is)

http://i.imgur.com/BkYafAi.jpg

 

With something like that, you would need to make a barrel, gas block, and make the magazines fit. You would be able to leave the AK rear sight base, and just cut down the gas tube.

 

 

I hope it helps, and I hope the build goes well, last I checked there were only a few custom airsoft S-12s.

[peelo 0]

Trick is, i DONT want it to look like an AK, i want this particular look: http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh07/saiga_12k-1.jpg

 

To be honest, its kinda ironic, most make their Saiga look like an AK and im trying to do the exact opposite.

 

I allready have a metal body, steel one to be exact so it can be welded. Im not gonna hunt down a steel airsoft RPK-body, i doubt any are sold separate, its easier to use what i have. I can simply cut similar plates from steel and weld em to the body. No need to hunt down a RPK, strip parts, etc.

PICTURES WANTED:

1: Front sight base. ANY and all pics on that, please. 

2: The "sight rib" on the pic above, cant find ANY pic

QUESTIONS:

1: Is it possible to buy a "spare" sight base from somewhere? Saiga OEM spares seem rare. Correct me if im wrong, if one uses an AK sight, it would leave the original part as "useless" and thus some might be aviable as used?
2: That "sight rib" - are they aviable anywhere? How rare are they, do people swap them out often? One more i could buy as used if possible. They just seem quite rare.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

The equivalent US model is the Saiga 12, IZ-108. There were relatively few imported in comparison with the more common IZ-109 models. The only difference in the IZ-108 and IZ-109 models is the adjustable sight leaf you are looking for.

 

The IZ-108 leaf sights were not at all popular with Americans, and most commonly were removed and discarded in favor of superior aftermarket sights. 

 

As Russia is your next door neighbor, and the part you are looking for is more common on Russian model guns, you are probably much more likely to find the sight leaf (complete with hardware) from a Russian source than an American source.

 

Good luck!

[peelo 0]

Loose spares seem VERY rare. I asked around, local gun-store has no part what-so-ever for Saiga, only 3rd party rails and other pimp-my-gun junk.

[6500rpm 670]

You might want to search out two of our Finnish members, JumiKuula and PJ. They both did a lot of custom S12 work back in the day and are also active on at least a couple gun forums as competitive shooters in your country. Also try this forum-http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB/

I wish I could be more help, but I have no experience with airsoft and I've never found a great Finnish to English translator. Your country has a lot of great information to offer the gun world.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

We always tossed them in the recycling bucket along with the rest of the factory take offs. I suspect other shops did the same.

[storm6490 2,768]

We always tossed them in the recycling bucket along with the rest of the factory take offs. I suspect other shops did the same.

The old sight rails? Hind sight I guess!

I have that shotgun if you really need more photos of it. You will need to fabricate the sight, for sure.

These airsoft guys are like modelers and rc guys over here. They spend thousands of dollars and hours on minute details to replicate to the nuts on degree. Pretty cool custom stuff. I'm not into airsoft but admire their attention to detail on the builder side. Japan makes some replicas that feel better and machined better than the real thi g!

[mancat 2,368]

I have been looking at some of the better quality airsoft AKs for some time. Some of them are high enough quality that some builders use the leftover parts for real stuff - e.g. I've heard from some that the Taiwanese-made triangle folder stocks and trunnions sold by AK Builder and others are actually runoff parts for airsoft. They are 100% dimensionally correct, metallurgy is the only concern, but I've seen some of the airsoft reviews where these guys do all of the same torture test shit that others do with real AKs, and they pass.

[gunfun 3,931]

Trick is, i DONT want it to look like an AK, i want this particular look: http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh07/saiga_12k-1.jpg

 

To be honest, its kinda ironic, most make their Saiga look like an AK and im trying to do the exact opposite.

 

I allready have a metal body, steel one to be exact so it can be welded. Im not gonna hunt down a steel airsoft RPK-body, i doubt any are sold separate, its easier to use what i have. I can simply cut similar plates from steel and weld em to the body. No need to hunt down a RPK, strip parts, etc.

 

PICTURES WANTED:

1: Front sight base. ANY and all pics on that, please. 

2: The "sight rib" on the pic above, cant find ANY pic

 

QUESTIONS:

1: Is it possible to buy a "spare" sight base from somewhere? Saiga OEM spares seem rare. Correct me if im wrong, if one uses an AK sight, it would leave the original part as "useless" and thus some might be aviable as used?

2: That "sight rib" - are they aviable anywhere? How rare are they, do people swap them out often? One more i could buy as used if possible. They just seem quite rare.

 

Click on my profile and look in my gallery section for the IZ-108 build. Legion had a version of this for sale a year or so ago too.