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JDeko

Multiple FTEs with Sluggers and Federal Slugs

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It would be a good exercise for you to learn how to completely disassemble your bolt.  It's not at all difficult and will allow you to thoroughly clean it out and not have to worry that  you have leftover gumout or other substances stuck in there.   Hoppes or CLP will work fine at that point and you'll learn more about how your gun is put together.  Get out a little container to hold your pins and other small parts as they are prone to disappearing if you bump the table.  As me how I know.  laugh.png

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The bolt group should not be disasembled unless you have at least intermediate mechanical skills.

Most of us are good at fixing shit, but not everyone is gifted with that talent.

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I'm not there yet I don't think, sadly. Still excited I can field strip and reassemble my guns easily so I think I have a ways to go. 

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Ok, well two things stick out. (1)- you said your lrbho spring and nut fell off. So at some point they begin to rise up and make contact with the bolt during normal cycling. (2) you confirmed my suspicions when you said the gun will fall into battery of shook. I would suggest you take a good look at your lrbho. A normally great functioning gun can be inhibited if(when) the iz-433 lrbho is not working right. It will drag the bolt or not work at all. The sheet metal pos that engages it it too short vs the vepr that does work. Legion has noticed this problem and tried to source verp parts for the saiga to remedy. The tell-tale for this symptom is rounded over edges on the lrbho(the part that stops the bolt) as far as cleaning I totally back Rogers just knock out the big chunks, only when it hold the bolt out of battery. 500-1000 rds on birdshot. 100 or so buckshot n slugs if Winchester after (1) lol jk. But I they are like shooting black powder.

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Yeah, I replaced the LRBHO with a new spring and nut but I figured it could be the main issue. I really don't know what I could do if it is the case, or possibly Legion if I send it to them.

 

I also wonder if it could be the Mini-Monster muzzle brake and/or the Vepr 12 gas puc I bought from Legion to get the part numbers correct to put a 10 round US mag in.

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well if you want to trouble shoot your self you could remove the lrbho, and then test fire. If that doesn't work I would prob send to legion or a smith that is VERY familiar with the 030/vepr shotguns. It sounds like you may not be super confident in your skills, but if the end result is the gun ending up at a gunsmith you don't have to worry about reassy the lrbho. Btw I had major cycling issues with my saiga 030 after attempting to get the lrbho to work. It's basically impossible without a different engagement tab.( the piece that contacts the mag follower and you push with your tigger finger to release the bolt) it eithe won't hold the bolt open or it will drag the bolt if you get it up enough to actually hold open on the last round. There is a post about this issue. If the lrbho is allowed to drag it will round over the edges on the bolt head and the lrbho exasperating the problem and making it even lest reliable. This may or may not be your cycling issue. But on mine it was. I haven't had much time lately but I had to give up on the lrbho on my 030 to trade for consistent cycling. Very disappointed. But am sure a vepr stamped lrbho engagement "bar," for lack of better terms, would solve the problem.

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yeah, I'm not too sure of my mechanical skills as of yet. I'm getting more and more handy as time goes on from working on my guns but since I just have the two right now I consider both of them vital and don't want to risk breaking one worse than it already is. Once I have one of the rifles I have my eye on and thus have a second long gun I'd be more willing to try serious tinkering with the Saiga. As it is now I'm fine just having someone at Legion fix it for a bit extra tacked onto the cost of converting it, I was hoping though that it might be something easy I could fix without risking disabling the gun if I screw up.

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You have a gas puc made for a different diameter of gas block and you only NOW bring it up!?

 

Use your factory mag and the factory puck and this this thread will be over. 

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I asked someone at Legion and they said that they were interchangeable, and I believe I'd also made a thread about that a bit back.

 

What would be the legality if I did put the factory gas puc back in?  Like would I have to leave my 10 rounder with a family member in another house or something since it'd be 11 Russian parts with the 10 round mag instead of 10.?

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Just don't put them in the gun at the same time until you get the legion one turned to the correct diameter...

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GunFun, on 09 Feb 2016 - 7:23 PM, said:GunFun, on 09 Feb 2016 - 7:23 PM, said:

until you get the legion one turned to the correct diameter...

 

 

You sure the diameters are different? A V12 and iz109 puck are the same diameter. Can't imagine the 030 being different.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/97871-what-is-the-difference-between-the-saiga12-puck-gas-vepr12-gas-puck/?hl=%2Bgas+%2Bpuck&do=findComment&comment=1033398

Edited by Mullet Man

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Wagnikov, on 09 Feb 2016 - 8:18 PM, said:

This is an 030 gun. Iz433

 

Yeah I know. I don't have one to measure. You do though....

I was just saying I can't see them being different.

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I had read that the 433/030 puck was either a few thou bigger or smaller than the V12's. A couple people confirmed that. She said that she had a V12 puck from Legion in there so it is likely a bit tight or too loose. IMO if it fits and can be moved by fingers, it can't be too tight.

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It might be too loose, possibly? If I take the gas tube off and put the gun on its butt stock the puc comes almost entirely out of the gas block. Its possible that the original Russian 030 puc didn't come out that easily.

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Hmmm, maybe the factory one is slightly smaller[?] The "Vepr" one was pretty loose earlier but now feels pretty firm in there whereas the factory one can slide in and out pretty easily.

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Get a caliper and compare the two pucks. If the replacement puck is larger than the factory, it will add friction to the entire system especially when it gets hot and dirty.

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To compare sizes, place them side by side, hold a straight edge on them and see witch end of the straight edge is higher! (if there is a need to know the exact sizes, a caliper is necessary, just to find the larger of the two, they are not necessary).

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Saiga030 left vepr right. No mic or calipers available.

The outside nub is shorter on the vepr, but also more shallow on the inside. So over all looks about the same thickness from where the op rod hits an the outside nub. OD is within a thousandth

post-48862-0-97754900-1455242527_thumb.jpeg

post-48862-0-56626600-1455242545_thumb.jpeg

post-48862-0-87229700-1455242579_thumb.jpeg

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Welp, she was acting up yesterday at the range. I had tried cleaning off the puc the night before and it was full of crud in the grooves, which I cleaned out, as well as the receiver. Same issues as before of stove-pipes and shells getting gouges cut into them when they misfed. 

 

I noticed whilst shooting that I was getting spattered by soot and when I got home I realized I hadn't heard my puc rattling around in its home so I'm figuring I may need to clean that spot out too. 

 

I must've only put about 500 rounds through it, and I'm wondering why its getting dirty so fast, this doesn't seem normal from what I've read on here. 

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Don't you have a red dot installed on the dust cover rail? It's pretty common for them to cause FTE issues.

 

The gun is going to get dirty. 12g rounds will leave a lot of carbon fouling in a gas operated gun. Nature of the beast. Everything is bigger and there's a lot more powder in a 12g cartridge than a handgun or rifle. Plus the gas ports are larger which will allow more debris through.

Edited by Mullet Man

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If you're not holding it firmly into your shoulder, it can cause malfunctioning issues.

 

Sort of like limp-wristing a 1911.

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If you're not holding it firmly into your shoulder, it can cause malfunctioning issues.

 

Sort of like limp-wristing a 1911.

 

Honestly when I tried it on my left shoulder a trip or two back it seemed able to cycle field loads no problem. I wondered if I was just "limp-shouldering" it since I bruised near my chest/armpit on the left whereas I always end up bruising my right bicep. I thought that might be part of the issue and its good to hear that it might be part of it.

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I thought you guys were fucking with me ala "headlight fluid" but I'll be damned if taking the red dot off made my Saiga cycle much better. Cheapo Walmart ammo flowed like water and honestly groups pretty well at 15 yards.

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