SAIGA S-12 Bendable flats

[Federal_Depot 0]

Hi to all on the board

 

Been reading this board for a good while. Finally getting the money for a S12 but what am I missing?

 

Isnt the S12 based on the same design as the AK47?

 

Aside from parts kits, why can people buy Ak47 flats but not Saiga S12 flats?

[acr 0]

Hi to all on the board

 

Been reading this board for a good while. Finally getting the money for a S12 but what am I missing?

 

Isnt the S12 based on the same design as the AK47?

 

Aside from parts kits, why can people buy Ak47 flats but not Saiga S12 flats?

 

*No parts kits available

*The receiver is very different from a standard AK receiver

*The S12 is really a pretty inexpensive shotgun, so building one would probably not be any cheaper

[6500rpm 670]

My guess is there's no demand without the availability of a S12 kit. The Saiga 12 is still importable in "sporting" form, so that's how they come into the U.S., from that point doing a pistol grip conversion is a snap. Kind of the same reasoning that you don't see many WASR kits, it's just easier to mod the low capasity WASR to accept high cap mags and make them compliant.

[44rdv4rk 0]

Hi to all on the board

 

Been reading this board for a good while. Finally getting the money for a S12 but what am I missing?

 

Isnt the S12 based on the same design as the AK47?

 

Aside from parts kits, why can people buy Ak47 flats but not Saiga S12 flats?

 

[b]*No parts kits available[/b]

*The receiver is very different from a standard AK receiver

*The S12 is really a pretty inexpensive shotgun, so building one would probably not be any cheaper

 

 

the primary reason.

[Federal_Depot 0]

Hi to all on the board

 

Been reading this board for a good while. Finally getting the money for a S12 but what am I missing?

 

Isnt the S12 based on the same design as the AK47?

 

Aside from parts kits, why can people buy Ak47 flats but not Saiga S12 flats?

 

[b]*No parts kits available[/b]

*The receiver is very different from a standard AK receiver

*The S12 is really a pretty inexpensive shotgun, so building one would probably not be any cheaper

 

 

the primary reason.

 

Hi

 

Has any US importer ever asked the Russians if the would sell parts kits?

[Federal_Depot 0]

My guess is there's no demand without the availability of a S12 kit. The Saiga 12 is still importable in "sporting" form, so that's how they come into the U.S., from that point doing a pistol grip conversion is a snap. Kind of the same reasoning that you don't see many WASR kits, it's just easier to mod the low capasity WASR to accept high cap mags and make them compliant.

 

Hi

 

A company like Tapco could easily produce a Saiga flat.

 

At the very least wouldn't it make the conversion process simpler? Instead of having to convert the original just demill the arm and build it on a new flat instead? If Tapco made the part it would also be a US compliant part?

[XD45 7,124]

I hope there are never any Saiga shotgun receivers or flats produced in the US.

[Federal_Depot 0]

I hope there are never any Saiga shotgun receivers or flats produced in the US.

 

 

Why? Is it because of 922?

Edited March 18, 2007 by Federal Depot

[erikm98 0]

The sheet metal is not the receiver on a saiga. If you look at the parts count list for the saiga you will notice that trunion is not checked but it is on every other AK style firearm. The receiver is the front trunion.

 

In order to make one you would need a mini mill and a chunk of steel, not quite as easy as bending up a flat.

[6500rpm 670]

I'd say no, because the basic conversion is no more than cutting off the blocker plate, moving/replacing the FCG with an AK set, and cutting a small slot for the pistol grip T nut. It "can" be done with not much more than a dremmel tool and some bits. Building a AK from a kit on the other hand can be a pain without the right tools, and to buy the right tools "can" cost several hundred dollars. I have made several tools for pressing blocks and barrels off/on, and squashing rivits just to make things easier, not including a 12 ton press. Converting Saiga's is fun and easy, building AK's is fun and easy too to some extent, but requires a lot more work....and I don't bend my own flats.

[Federal_Depot 0]

The sheet metal is not the receiver on a saiga. If you look at the parts count list for the saiga you will notice that trunion is not checked but it is on every other AK style firearm. The receiver is the front trunion.

 

In order to make one you would need a mini mill and a chunk of steel, not quite as easy as bending up a flat.

 

 

Hi Eirk,

 

Thanks a lot for that info. So the receiver is the front trunion for the S12. That filled in a big gap my Google-Fu missed

 

So if I wanted to produce a front trunion (receiver) I would need to use a mill. Would I be safe to guess that this would also involve welding in the build process?

[Federal_Depot 0]

I'd say no, because the basic conversion is no more than cutting off the blocker plate, moving/replacing the FCG with an AK set, and cutting a small slot for the pistol grip T nut. It "can" be done with not much more than a dremmel tool and some bits. Building a AK from a kit on the other hand can be a pain without the right tools, and to buy the right tools "can" cost several hundred dollars. I have made several tools for pressing blocks and barrels off/on, and squashing rivits just to make things easier, not including a 12 ton press. Converting Saiga's is fun and easy, building AK's is fun and easy too to some extent, but requires a lot more work....and I don't bend my own flats.

 

 

Hi 6500rpm,

 

Nice shop tools!

 

Which do you think is easier? Converting a S12 or building a AK47? I bend my own AK flats and have done a pair of Romy builds for myself so I have some basic shop skills under my belt.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Federal Depot

[erikm98 0]

The sheet metal is not the receiver on a saiga. If you look at the parts count list for the saiga you will notice that trunion is not checked but it is on every other AK style firearm. The receiver is the front trunion.

 

In order to make one you would need a mini mill and a chunk of steel, not quite as easy as bending up a flat.

 

 

Hi Eirk,

 

Thanks a lot for that info. So the receiver is the front trunion for the S12. That filled in a big gap my Google-Fu missed

 

So if I wanted to produce a front trunion (receiver) I would need to use a mill. Would I be safe to guess that this would also involve welding in the build process?

 

 

Not a problem. I do not know if you would need to weld at all.

 

The reason there are no home built saiga 12's is because of the ammount of work and effort needed. For example make a trunion for the shotgun, then get a flat and bend it up and build a bunch of other one off parts for it. For example there is extra bracing in the sheet metal, the center support incorporates the ejector and is a solid chunk of metal and the bolt rails are differnt than standard AK rails.

 

If you are doing it for compliance part issues it be easier to replace the gas piston, stock, foregrip, pistol grip and even barrel then try and machine up a trunion.

[XD45 7,124]

I hope there are never any Saiga shotgun receivers or flats produced in the US.

 

 

Why? Is it because of 922?

Because nobody will make them here unless Russian receivers are banned from import.

Edited March 18, 2007 by XD45

[Conju 2]

I'd say no, because the basic conversion is no more than cutting off the blocker plate, moving/replacing the FCG with an AK set, and cutting a small slot for the pistol grip T nut. It "can" be done with not much more than a dremmel tool and some bits. Building a AK from a kit on the other hand can be a pain without the right tools, and to buy the right tools "can" cost several hundred dollars. I have made several tools for pressing blocks and barrels off/on, and squashing rivits just to make things easier, not including a 12 ton press. Converting Saiga's is fun and easy, building AK's is fun and easy too to some extent, but requires a lot more work....and I don't bend my own flats.

 

 

Hi 6500rpm,

 

Nice shop tools!

 

Which do you think is easier? Converting a S12 or building a AK47? I bend my own AK flats and have done a pair of Romy builds for myself so I have some basic shop skills under my belt.

 

 

Converting an S-12 is a much simpler process and requires fewer custom tools than building a Kalashnikov. The hardest part IMHO is putting on the trigger guard. I riveted an AK guard that I stole from a romy kit on, but you can also reuse the standard trigger guard and bolt it on. It looks like donkey shit but it serves it's purpose.

[6500rpm 670]

+1^^^^^^^.

[greatmoose 4]

You can do the conversion in about an hour (less with practice). It literally takes a dremel tool, a drill, and a screwdiver. That's it. Building one from a flat would be A LOT more work.

[Federal_Depot 0]

You can do the conversion in about an hour (less with practice). It literally takes a dremel tool, a drill, and a screwdiver. That's it. Building one from a flat would be A LOT more work.

 

 

 

Hi

 

Thanks for that info. I am a S-12 noob so I'm asking quetions where my Google-Fu lacks. At first I thought the Saiga was like a Ak47 on steriods, sort of how the Romak/PSL copies are. Now after chatting with people on the board I've come to realize it looks like an AK on the outside but on the inside its a completely different beast altogether.

[Federal_Depot 0]

I'd say no, because the basic conversion is no more than cutting off the blocker plate, moving/replacing the FCG with an AK set, and cutting a small slot for the pistol grip T nut. It "can" be done with not much more than a dremmel tool and some bits. Building a AK from a kit on the other hand can be a pain without the right tools, and to buy the right tools "can" cost several hundred dollars. I have made several tools for pressing blocks and barrels off/on, and squashing rivits just to make things easier, not including a 12 ton press. Converting Saiga's is fun and easy, building AK's is fun and easy too to some extent, but requires a lot more work....and I don't bend my own flats.

 

 

Hi 6500rpm,

 

Nice shop tools!

 

Which do you think is easier? Converting a S12 or building a AK47? I bend my own AK flats and have done a pair of Romy builds for myself so I have some basic shop skills under my belt.

 

 

Converting an S-12 is a much simpler process and requires fewer custom tools than building a Kalashnikov. The hardest part IMHO is putting on the trigger guard. I riveted an AK guard that I stole from a romy kit on, but you can also reuse the standard trigger guard and bolt it on. It looks like donkey shit but it serves it's purpose.

 

 

Hi

 

So is the Romy trigger guard the preferred peice for conversion or can I use any type of AK trigger guard?

[6500rpm 670]

Any AK guard will work, Rommy's are typically the least expensive and easiest to find, Tromix sells one also if you want a different look. Functionally, a converted Saiga is the same as an AK. Things like the receiver, trunions, bolt/carrier are just larger and heavier to deal with the 12ga round.

[greatmoose 4]

I use the existing Saiga trigger guard, just flipped around backward. Works just fine. Just FYI.

[Federal_Depot 0]

I use the existing Saiga trigger guard, just flipped around backward. Works just fine. Just FYI.

 

Thanks for that tip! I'm glad I asked some questions on the board. The US receiver is just a waste of time, labor and money. And to think I thought it was the easy way out.

 

Converting a Saiga-12 with US 922 parts is a much easier, way to go.

 

I've been looking at the tutorial sticked to the board and I've got those tools and a little more.

 

Now to just save a little more cash and get my IZ-109!

[MikeD 541]

Hi to all on the board

 

Been reading this board for a good while. Finally getting the money for a S12 but what am I missing?

 

Isnt the S12 based on the same design as the AK47?

 

Aside from parts kits, why can people buy Ak47 flats but not Saiga S12 flats?

I myself would love to see a US made complete 12ga . If a company would pick up the project they would make a lot of money. The Russians can't get them over here fast enough for the demand. An American company could help with the supply problem and probably make a better, more consistent product.