MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well, the bho return spring is backwards and I found this as well. On a couple of the new IZ-109's I can't lock up a 5rd mag, the one 8rd factory I have did lock up, don't have any agps to test because all I have are magwell modified. This is a different that the typical mag fitting problems and the factory instructions on mag fitting aren't any good here (to make it fit right at least). If anybody is experiencing this on the latest imports, before you start shaving your rear mag catch or mag release levers what for me to post pics. I can't post them tonight but will try to get them up in the next couple days. On the 2 I have that are doing it is because the top of the rear mag catch is not clearing a surface. I am not sure what to call the part to verbally explain where it is hitting. I have heard the surface called a firewall before. It is to far forward by about a 20th of an inch. There is 2 ways you can go here to fix this. The best way would be to dremel a little of the surface down on the gun itself (NOT THE MAG RELEASE LEVER). This will let you hook up all mags. Or you can shave a small area down on each of your mags (NOT THE TYPICAL BOTTOM SURFACE OF THE REAR MAG CATCH). This will do just fine but you will have to fit each mag individually if you go this route and that is why I don't feel it is the best fix. I'll get some pics up soon as well as serial numbers of the 2 guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I requested info on this from a member that had reported this sevreal weeks ago, and never got a reply. what year stamping is on this new gun? and is it still from the same factory? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Man QC just keeps goin down and down and down.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Meanwhile prices just keep goin up and up and up... WTF?>?????? OVER!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 thats not what it is. I am already aware of what the potential issue may be in russia.....the plant is undergoing a retooling, and I believe the latest, SHORT shipment, is due to the fact of them using either a backup set of tooling for right now, a partly redone line, a set of different lines in conjunction, or one of the newly retooled lines. this I am sure, is still a state secret to some extent, so information is not exactly forthcoming. also of relevance is the other models with drop free mags and magwells, and how that equartes in the whole picture. I am also suspicious of how this relates to aftermarket mags fitting.....will have to get ahold of a few guns on my own to have a detailed look, myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I requested info on this from a member that had reported this sevreal weeks ago, and never got a reply. what year stamping is on this new gun? and is it still from the same factory? I think I read that thread. Was it the guy saying that his gun would only work with version 2 5rd mags? I plan to do some measuring but I don't think the mags are any different. I think the numbers are just there to identify which mold they came off of but I could very well be wrong. Regardless neither 1 or 2 marked 5rd mags are fitting in the 2 guns I mentioned. All the guns I received are Izhmash made (or marked at least) and have a year stamp of '07. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 i have three versions of 5 roung mags in my possession. two are marked first gen bodies..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 No, that's not a new problem. I have seen it before. The block that incorporates the ejector, and houses the mag catch is a bit too far forward and causes the mag to bind. That has been happening since the EAA guns. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I've also got three different versions. The first one has a different style of feedlips.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 No, that's not a new problem. I have seen it before. The block that incorporates the ejector, and houses the mag catch is a bit too far forward and causes the mag to bind. That has been happening since the EAA guns. Tony Thats the part I'm talking about. How do you fix this when you come across it? I was planning on shaving a little off the edge of the block where it binds. Is there an easy way to just move the block back? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I've also got three different versions. The first one has a different style of feedlips.. I am going to have to do some comparing. Is there any other differences other than the feedlips you have spotted? Could you post some pics of the differences when you get a chance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I've also got three different versions. The first one has a different style of feedlips.. I am going to have to do some comparing. Is there any other differences other than the feedlips you have spotted? Could you post some pics of the differences when you get a chance? Sure, no prob...BRB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 It is not a very common problem. I have only seen it on a few guns out of about a 1,000 or so. I just went in with a small die grinder and clearanced it back a bit. That block is riveted in place. It would be a serious job to drill out the rivets, weld up the holes, redrill the holes rearward, and re-rivet back in place. I can't imagine going to that trouble when a bit a grinding will fix the problem. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Ok here are three 5 rd mags I have. The first two from the left are version #1 (marked in lower Rt hand corner) The third is a #2. The one all the way to the left has the early style feed lips. All these pics are with the mags stacked together in the same order. (reversed when seeing from behind) Only differences I notice are...the feed lips on the first style of #1, a slightly larger rear lug on same, and the horizontal scratch in the body about a third of the way up on version #1. Oh ...and that place on the back above the floorplate slot where it looks like they have pieced it in on version #1 and the shoulder there where the mag appears to have been extended.... Edited December 31, 2007 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Ok here are three 5 rd mags I have. The first two from the left are version #1 (marked in lower Rt hand corner) The third is a #2. The one all the way to the left has the early style feed lips. All these pics are with the mags stacked together in the same order. (reversed when seeing from behind) Only differences I notice are...the feed lips on the first style of #1, a slightly larger rear lug on same, and the horizontal scratch in the body about a third of the way up on version #1. Oh ...and that place on the back above the floorplate slot where it looks like they have pieced it in on version #1 and the shoulder there where the mag appears to have been extended.... I'm surprised I never noticed that before on the difference in the body. On the version 1 at the bottom, where it looked like it was pieced on... That is more than likely from exactly that. Only the pieces was probably the mold itself from what they call handloads. What we are probably seeing is the parting lines of the tooling. It is more-less pieces that are placed together by hand to either reduce the mold complexity or is some case to make the part geometricly possibily to make by molding. I am also surprised I've never ran into the old style feedlips. Now those are really interesting. It looks like the rims would hang up on them but obviously they don't. I wonder why they switched designs and wonder why they went for that complexity in the first place? Thanks for the pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 It is not a very common problem. I have only seen it on a few guns out of about a 1,000 or so. I just went in with a small die grinder and clearanced it back a bit. That block is riveted in place. It would be a serious job to drill out the rivets, weld up the holes, redrill the holes rearward, and re-rivet back in place. I can't imagine going to that trouble when a bit a grinding will fix the problem. Tony I'm relieved that it is a rare exisiting occurance and not something new. Hopefully I have the only 2 like it from the last batch because it will be a sintch to fix . Maybe I just got "lucky"! Well, I guess if anybody else does pop up with mag fitting problems they should start checking for this as well as the rear mag catch and release lever if it is a new gun. Let us know and there is a simple fix! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Ok here are three 5 rd mags I have. The first two from the left are version #1 (marked in lower Rt hand corner) The third is a #2. The one all the way to the left has the early style feed lips. All these pics are with the mags stacked together in the same order. (reversed when seeing from behind) Only differences I notice are...the feed lips on the first style of #1, a slightly larger rear lug on same, and the horizontal scratch in the body about a third of the way up on version #1. Oh ...and that place on the back above the floorplate slot where it looks like they have pieced it in on version #1 and the shoulder there where the mag appears to have been extended.... I'm surprised I never noticed that before on the difference in the body. On the version 1 at the bottom, where it looked like it was pieced on... That is more than likely from exactly that. Only the pieces was probably the mold itself from what they call handloads. What we are probably seeing is the parting lines of the tooling. It is more-less pieces that are placed together by hand to either reduce the mold complexity or is some case to make the part geometricly possibily to make by molding. I am also surprised I've never ran into the old style feedlips. Now those are really interesting. It looks like the rims would hang up on them but obviously they don't. I wonder why they switched designs and wonder why they went for that complexity in the first place? Thanks for the pics! You can tell from the second to the last pic, on the mag on the right side, that the floor plate was originally supposed to slide into a groove higher up. My guess is they lengthened it to make loading on a closed bolt possible with 5 in there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Ok here are three 5 rd mags I have. The first two from the left are version #1 (marked in lower Rt hand corner) The third is a #2. The one all the way to the left has the early style feed lips. All these pics are with the mags stacked together in the same order. (reversed when seeing from behind) Only differences I notice are...the feed lips on the first style of #1, a slightly larger rear lug on same, and the horizontal scratch in the body about a third of the way up on version #1. Oh ...and that place on the back above the floorplate slot where it looks like they have pieced it in on version #1 and the shoulder there where the mag appears to have been extended.... I'm surprised I never noticed that before on the difference in the body. On the version 1 at the bottom, where it looked like it was pieced on... That is more than likely from exactly that. Only the pieces was probably the mold itself from what they call handloads. What we are probably seeing is the parting lines of the tooling. It is more-less pieces that are placed together by hand to either reduce the mold complexity or is some case to make the part geometricly possibily to make by molding. I am also surprised I've never ran into the old style feedlips. Now those are really interesting. It looks like the rims would hang up on them but obviously they don't. I wonder why they switched designs and wonder why they went for that complexity in the first place? Thanks for the pics! You can tell from the second to the last pic, on the mag on the right side, that the floor plate was originally supposed to slide into a groove higher up. My guess is they lengthened it to make loading on a closed bolt possible with 5 in there. That could very well be. Maybe they just made some add on editions to their existing mold so they didn't have to build another from scratch. It looks like though from the interior that they made a new one peice core because there is no parting lines in those areas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kyhelo 5 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'm no expert here. My recent experience with three 8 rd mags is as follows. The one that came in the box with the shotgun (RAA 19" threaded barrel, bought new last year) worked like it should, clicked right into place. I bought two extra mags at the same time, both appearing identical to the in-box mag. Neither of the two extra mags would catch at the rear mag catch and lock in. (All the AGP mags also lock in, though it's not a tight lock up.) I solved the problem on the two extra 8 rd mags by just very. very lightly filing (just a few strokes) on the very top rear edge of the rear mag lock section in the center of the rear mag edge. I actually used a nail file blade on a small Swiss-type pen knife. Both mags now lock up just right and tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 cobra, can you load the mag through those notches in the feed lips? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmacken37 4 Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) ****EASY FIX ON MY SAIGA 12 IZ 109**** I just tried an AGP 10-rounder on my new saiga and couldn't get the rear catch of the mag to seat in the gun. The included 5-rounder seats without problems. I noticed that the 5-round mag that came with the gun has a slightly higher rear catch (put the mags upside down on a table and compare the rear catch). I stroked the bottom of the rear catch on the AGP 10-rounder with a file several times (removed less than a mm) and the AGP mag locks up beautifully now. I haven't gotten a chance to shoot the gun, but hope this fixes things. Jake Edited January 3, 2008 by jmacken37 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 cobra, can you load the mag through those notches in the feed lips? Negative. The notches actually hold the shell in place by the rim. The spring has to compress slightly for the shell to be stripped from the mag. They probably decided that was unnecessary and changed the design. It feeds just fine though. I actually thought it would be good to modify the modern feed lips like this for competition shooting so you don't get the problem of the top round sliding forward under recoil when you are using two mags clamped together, leading to a misfeed when you change mags. Sorry for the crappy pic, my camera battery is dead. I'll take another one later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 I straightened the lips out on the 5 rounder I have like that, after having a failure to feed with it on the first shell, and havent had a problem since with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dvdivx 0 Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I bought mine only a few days ago. Was made on 9/20/07. Stock 5rd mag doesn't lock in. The 2 AGP 10rd mags load as if they were made for the gun. The factory clip doesn't seem to lock in so just falls out. It doesn't seem to lock in on the metal clip part of the magazine. Haven't even had time to break it in yet. Still need to get a cleaning kit and supplies for it. First gun that I've owned. Had a baby girl and needed something for home defence and looked like the right thing for that. I'm not that upset the factory clip doesn't work since I plan on getting more AGP mags anyways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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