Interest Call - Non-standard caliber AK Bullpup system

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Hey folks. Just brainstorming, but I wanted to run something by my fellow AK lovers here.

 

Many of us have hope in the bullpup design, but have been quite disappointed with offerings to date in that department. Many of us have different reasons.

 

In some cases the bullpup is attractive but not as functional as we would like. In other cases it's ugly as sin, and not in a good way.

 

Here's my beef with most bullpups:

1.) A very high center of gravity. This is at least the case with the Bushmaster.

2.) A grip too far forward. This means too long a length of pull AND a center of gravity unusually far back. The AK bullpup kit from K-Var and the Muzzlelite kit for the 10-22 have this by necessity - the sharply curved mags would otherwise run into the grip.

 

My idea is for an AK bullpup stock that has a grip farther back, but this would only work on non-7.62x39mm rifles. I've thought of it for my S-223 and/or S-308. A 12ga might be an option later.

 

Thinking about doing this for my own reasons, but just wondering if I should try to incorporate interests besides my own (ie minimal grip distance forward achieved by a complicated permanent AR mag conversion). The result being a compact tactical carbine with as little awkwardness as possible.

[Toad442 0]

Here's some good pics/ideas.

 

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza/images.htm

[jimmbswu 0]

I think the biggest problem (wrt center of gravity) for an AK bullpup conversion is that the lower receiver is too long. Therefore, just about any conventional bullpup conversion will have the center of gravity too far back.

 

I think a way to get around this problem may be to mount the grip away from the centerline axis. ie, as shown in the below ascii drawing:

 

i

i ---> barrel

i

iii ---> handguard

iii

iii ---> trunion

iiiiii ---> pistol grip mounted on the side of the lower receiver

iii

iii ----> trigger housing and rest of lower receiver

iii

 

combined with a side-mounted forward grip, I don't think you'll have too much movement side-to-side.

 

I'm definitely interested in any bullpup conversion.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

This is a good example of the grip placement I had in mind, thanks Toad.

 

Now there's a different idea, having a different mag attachment.

 

And this is the exact opposite of what I had in mind.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Here's a little editing into what I have in mind for myself.

 

This is the kind of balance that I feel would be ideal, but it is only possible with an AR mag conversion I have in mind that moves back the magazine well (for other reasons).

 

If the scope had a lighted reticle, it should blink "NO LEFTIES!"

[RDSWriter 5]

I would be very interested in a bullpup design for and S12. But financially it would be difficult to acheive a cost effective product. Personally, I would never be willing to spend more than $300 for one. Also, The receiver/ejector block in an S12 prohibits an internal trigger connector rod, so the linkage rod would (1) have to be external or (2) following the muzzlite design wheeby an entire clamshell would surround the firearm. Option (1) is not really an option as tactically no one would want an external linkage rod. Option (2) gets expensive...

 

I actually submitted a design for bullpup system for the S12 to the ATF during the AWB. Even with a butthole stock it was shot down. After 9/12/04, I started looking into again but given the flexibilty and variety of options available.... I couldn't ever figure out how to sell enough of them to make it financially feasible. I don't even think I have the design or letters anymore. From a market pespective, you can do a conversion with ACE folder, custom grip and flash suppressor for less than $300.

 

Now... if you can create a solid bullpup design that is based on the 7.62/5.45/5.56 series and can be modified easily by the end user to function with a S20 or S12... you may have a winner as there would be enough rifles that could use it to make the financials work.

Edited February 8, 2006 by RDSWriter

[BattleRifleG3 16]

My design (for myself at this point) involves heavy modification - cause it's me. Something for others would probably be a lot like the Ukranian bullpup called VEPR posted above (no relation to the Russian Molot produced rifle imported by Robarm).

[Bravo 26 2]

I would be interested enough so that if i did not own a 223 or 308 siaga, I would buy one for the bullpup conversion.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I dont understand the need to move the mag, except for PG clearance...

 

If you want balance... it sounds silly... but you just ADD WEIGHT!

 

Like an expensive fishing pole... to get it to balance you add weight to the back and it FEELS LIGHTER because its balanced...

 

even though the overall weight increases... why not just add weight under the handguard to balance it and save the extra machining steps??!

 

 

I would LOVE an AK bullpup myself... I just dunno if the cost and fiddle-fuck factor would make it worth my while...

 

 

[Bvamp 604]

id buy several.

[G O B 3,516]

The Bullpup needs to be turned over. with the mag on top. That way the balance is better, and re-loads can be done in a confined space. Maybe use a hydraulic trigger. Something like a hydraulic clutch lincage , but smaller.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I thought about that, think that'll be for someone else. Come to think of it, I realize why they don't do that already. If the action is in the buttstock and the mag sticks up from there...

[RDSWriter 5]

GOB...

 

Enjoy your teeth while you have them if you turn the receiver upside down on the bullpup... because the charging handle on the carrier is going knock them out when the firearm cycles...

[G O B 3,516]

It would take a LITTLE more than just turning it over. However, a rod activated bolt is a lot more palatable than a rod activated trigger.

 

 

G O B

[Bigfoot Wallace 0]

I'm no Einstein but why not rotate the whole damn thing 90 degrees and have the mag stick out to the right or left. The shells could eject to the top or bottom. The sights could be readjusted to the sides.

 

Hell, I dunno if it would work but it would be a solution to curved mag problems. Besides people shoot AKs side-ways all over the world.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Bigfoot Wallace

[G O B 3,516]

Side mag is an option, I just don't like a bullpup with a mag on the bottom, or a crappy trigger.

 

 

G O B

Edited February 12, 2006 by G O B

[vjor 2]

one of the few bullpup that really worded to be copy will

be the valmet, dig info on it and see what you come out with.

 

 

 

 

Valmet M82 finland

on .223

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just my 2 cents.

Edited February 15, 2006 by vjor

[BattleRifleG3 16]

The availability of Saiga 223s with 20" barrels may make this project even nicer.

[mr. fudd 0]

It seems to me that the mag problem is entirely due to having the mag catch mounted towards the rear of the receiver. If you were to put the catch in the front then it wouldn't be a problem.