aguidor 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I've just been advised that chances are we'll be receiving a visit from the FBI. Apparently a lot of people started to undertake modifications of the short saigas by themselves so the ATF has handed the addresses of everyone who bought a new saiga 12 to the FBI for a little meeting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I've just been advised that chances are we'll be receiving a visit from the FBI. Apparently a lot of people started to undertake modifications of the short saigas by themselves so the ATF has handed the addresses of everyone who bought a new saiga 12 to the FBI for a little meeting. TheMole, Where did you get your information and what purpose would a "meeting" serve with all new Saiga 12 owners since RAAC has all the shotguns and not everyone attempted a conversion or barrel length fix themselves? It sounds like a rumor to me. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aguidor 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I've just been advised that chances are we'll be receiving a visit from the FBI. Apparently a lot of people started to undertake modifications of the short saigas by themselves so the ATF has handed the addresses of everyone who bought a new saiga 12 to the FBI for a little meeting. TheMole, Where did you get your information and what purpose would a "meeting" serve with all new Saiga 12 owners since RAAC has all the shotguns and not everyone attempted a conversion or barrel length fix themselves? It sounds like a rumor to me. Wolverine Someone i consider reliable, and i really do hope its just a rumor. I don't know what the purpose would be but a visit from the FBI seems like a bad thing overall to me if the rumor is founded Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 ...and what exactly does the FBI have to do with the issue? Wasn't it the BATF's mess up to begin with - not catching the weapons at the port inspection? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 this thread smells of BULLSHIT already... it did before I even got off the first post... I am sorely tempted to trash it now... but as it could all be a great laugh for the rest of us, I will not... If it gets out of hand and stupid fast... kiss it goodbye... Mole... your source is bullshitting you. The FBI has zero reason to be involved. If the ATF wants to know something about someones gun, the ATF sends its OWN BOYS to check it out... The ATF is the one that will be knocking on your door... and as it stands, I dont believe that even THAT is going to be happening in this case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yeah, I am calling big time bullshit with this one. The ATF would be the ones going around and doing the investigation/verification of the guns, not the ATF. Secondly, how does anyone know who has been doing any modification to these guns other than ourselves and Tromix? Both of us openly post that we were doing it, and both of us are SOT's, full licensed to do anything to them that we choose. Add length, take it away, it doesn't matter. So how again do they know who has done what? On top of that, there are still just over 100 guns that have not yet been returned to RAAC for verification of the length or a fix. All of the guns that did go back that WERE already fixed (ours Tromix, and possibly a few others) have now been approved and are on their way back to the owners. IF there were any controban issues they would have been siezed and their owners notified. Who again did you say fed you this line of bullshit, and how exactly is he tied into the system to be in a position to know anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I vote to NOT stop this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Someone i consider reliable, and i really do hope its just a rumor. I don't know what the purpose would be but a visit from the FBI seems like a bad thing overall to me if the rumor is founded Categories of people likely to know anything: 1. ATF agents 2. RAA owners or staff Few ATF agents were probably assigned to the inspection of the Saiga12s. The odds of knowing one of the few agents is very highly unlikely. If this held any real credibility, it came from most likely RAA staff. The only two people that ever talk to the public are the two owners. The two owners wouldnt start a rumor. Your not sure if its a rumor. If you heard this from one of the distributors, dealers, or on some other website forum your info may be complete BS. If you heard it from Gunsmoke the distributor in Florida then it is a crock for sure. Im just asking how is this source connected to RAA? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopdogg 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Guns came into counrty as unregistered SBSs, Contraband. Class 2 cannot register contraband as legal NFA SBS. The C2 is not manufacturing an SBS, the gun is already an (illegal) SBS. If C2 registers contraband guns as SBS and gets caught, no more C2. fwiw Edited March 22, 2006 by snoopdogg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike1972 1 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 What? no more responses from the mole? We demand to know your source lol )) Pvt.Pyle...... It looks like I will be having to wait a bit longer before i can place my order with you guys. I havent found a buyer for the glock.... but I will....... Oh yes, I will lol...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Ok ok ok, you guys are forgetting the most important part of the question, "How does the FBI know who has got the new Saigas?" A background check during the purchase is just that. In order for the ATF to round up any lot of guns they would have to go to the distributor and then to each individual shop to look at their sales. But who cares, this thread is garbage anyway right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 hahah....but...but... they arent supposed to SAVE that information, remember? hahah. yeh my ass, they dont keep it. itd still be the ATF though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Well, a aother things aside, they still have not come and gotten any info from us as to who they were sold to, so how do they know who has them? Hey B, this guys IP addy isn't the same as Robinsons is it? I see his message baord is down and since they dont have any Veprs or other product to ship maybe they are board. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Kind of along these same lines...not really, but a little because both subjects involve out of control governmental authority figures...I keep seeing these shows like "Cops" and "Texas SWAT", etc. and I see them kicking through a door and storming a house yelling "Cops...Search Warrant". I've had 3 friends robbed by people that dressed as "cops": fake badge, clothes, etc. Legally, don't they have to SHOW you the search warrant before they can enter and search? Needless to say, I don't plan on being raided by cops, but I plan on shooting at whatever kicks through my door until I can confirm that they are indeed legitimate authorities. Do I have any legal defense if I cap a few cops before they can disarm me or settle the situation enough to present me the search warrant? Does the Castle Doctrine afford any protection against such a raid? Edited March 22, 2006 by AegisDei Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aguidor 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I heard it from a dealer, and I dont give any credit to it simply said he is a credible source usually. I posted to see if any one else had heard a similar statement. I also agree that FBI involvement in a ATF matter does not make sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 hahah....but...but... they arent supposed to SAVE that information, remember? hahah. yeh my ass, they dont keep it. itd still be the ATF though. The paperwork that buyers fill out (remember the yellow form?) are saved which will have the buyers info and what they bought. If the ATF wants to know who got what gun, they send a field agent to look through them. Of course the FBI still has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomovich 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 As far as I know there was ONE ATF field agent assigned to the actual inspections at RAAC and then her TECH BRANCH supervisor who was going to approve what she reported on (her inspections). An "official" approval letter would then be issued by the that upper management person. Done, end of story. Sooo..............there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for FBI involvement unless someone who shipped their S12 back to RAAC left their Al-Qaeda training manual rolled up in the receiver. Duh. And as an extra added measure, extra frosting on the cake so to speak, from what I know about the love (or EXTREME lack of it) between ATF and FBI, ATF won't be turning this over to ANYBODY else. So............Bull. As they say.........we be cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I heard it from a dealer, and I dont give any credit to it simply said he is a credible source usually. I posted to see if any one else had heard a similar statement. I also agree that FBI involvement in a ATF matter does not make sense. I would say that your dealer is either trying to sell you something else, or is a complete tool. Tell him if he needs any actual info to call RAAC, because whoever he is getting the info from is a tool as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Wasn't illegal firearms the reason for Federal involvement at Waco? Didn't the ATF and the FBI raid Waco? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SammoH 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Kind of along these same lines...not really, but a little because both subjects involve out of control governmental authority figures...I keep seeing these shows like "Cops" and "Texas SWAT", etc. and I see them kicking through a door and storming a house yelling "Cops...Search Warrant". I've had 3 friends robbed by people that dressed as "cops": fake badge, clothes, etc. Legally, don't they have to SHOW you the search warrant before they can enter and search? Needless to say, I don't plan on being raided by cops, but I plan on shooting at whatever kicks through my door until I can confirm that they are indeed legitimate authorities. Do I have any legal defense if I cap a few cops before they can disarm me or settle the situation enough to present me the search warrant? Does the Castle Doctrine afford any protection against such a raid? Aegis, Heheh. If you cap a few cops while they're raiding your house, I don't think you'd have much to worry about in the way of legal defense. Frankly, from the couple of cops I know (one of them a SWAT member) they'd shoot in self defense then "disarm" you later. Seeing as that they're trained to shoot for the center of mass and to shoot to eliminate the danger, I'd say that you won't really need to even talk to an attorney after it's all done. The only thing you'd really need to think about is saying hello to your ancestors. Of course, I could be wrong. Sam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Wasn't illegal firearms the reason for Federal involvement at Waco? Didn't the ATF and the FBI raid Waco? ATF used several "suspicion of.." including illegal firearms, drugs and child abuse for the raid justification paperwork. The FBI stepped in and took over the siege when the Branch Davidians handed the ATF Imperial stormtroopers their asses to them. RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Aegis, Heheh. If you cap a few cops while they're raiding your house, I don't think you'd have much to worry about in the way of legal defense. Frankly, from the couple of cops I know (one of them a SWAT member) they'd shoot in self defense then "disarm" you later. Seeing as that they're trained to shoot for the center of mass and to shoot to eliminate the danger, I'd say that you won't really need to even talk to an attorney after it's all done. The only thing you'd really need to think about is saying hello to your ancestors. Of course, I could be wrong. Sam Fair enough, thanks for the info! "Better to be carried by 6 than judged by 12." I'll still plan to shoot to kill, I was just curious if there was any protection offered or if anyone with a badge can bust through the door and get immunity by screaming "police, search warrant". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Wasn't illegal firearms the reason for Federal involvement at Waco? Didn't the ATF and the FBI raid Waco? ATF used several "suspicion of.." including illegal firearms, drugs and child abuse for the raid justification paperwork. The FBI stepped in and took over the siege when the Branch Davidians handed the ATF Imperial stormtroopers their asses to them. RonSwin Wasn't it originally the FBI's operation? I seem to recall the FBI was going in to investigate the child abuse allegations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 You all could be right but I thought the main problem was the belief of automatic weapons, etc. Why would the FBI get invoved with child abuse. Not a federal problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Humm, I thought if they were transporting kids across state lines it could involve the FBI. All those people weren't local Texans. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Humm, I thought if they were transporting kids across state lines it could involve the FBI. All those people weren't local Texans. But at least one of their parents was there with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) Aegis, Heheh. If you cap a few cops while they're raiding your house, I don't think you'd have much to worry about in the way of legal defense. Frankly, from the couple of cops I know (one of them a SWAT member) they'd shoot in self defense then "disarm" you later. Seeing as that they're trained to shoot for the center of mass and to shoot to eliminate the danger, I'd say that you won't really need to even talk to an attorney after it's all done. The only thing you'd really need to think about is saying hello to your ancestors. Of course, I could be wrong. Sam Fair enough, thanks for the info! "Better to be carried by 6 than judged by 12." I'll still plan to shoot to kill, I was just curious if there was any protection offered or if anyone with a badge can bust through the door and get immunity by screaming "police, search warrant". Basically, you're screwed in this case.. However, if your area has had several of that type of robbery in the past, (and if you survive the experience) you could make the case in court and get manslaughter, and maybe only 5 years of ass-raping before you get paroled. If you live in a police state jurisdiction where cops are treated like noblemen (say, Jersey, NYC) then you're going away for murder. If you live a squeaky clean life and your feces is not odiferous, you might, MIGHT be able to make a case in court that you KNEW the cops were fake because you KNEW you hadn't committed a crime and don't live with anyone who might, and therefore had a reason to believe the incoming cops were fake. There IS court precedent for police failing to ID themselves, and getting attacked or whatnot. These cops are never punished, but sometimes the other party gets off. Your best bet is to reinforce your domicile until its damn near impossible to kick, ram, or otherwise knock in the door. As soon as you hear the word "police" yelled outside, you'd better be on 911 asking them to confirm the unit outside. If they don't, or can't, don't open that door! Even if the cops outside are legit, let them stew in their own juices until you can confirm, or a search warrant and an ID comes through your mail slot (note to self...mail slot should not be able to accomodate a flashbang...). However, if they drive an APC through your wall, chances are its the feds! If you're really concerned about this, get a copy of a search warrant and a badge from your local jurisdiction and hang it up by your door. Front door camera monitoring ,and completely reinforced windows/doors don't hurt either. Edited March 24, 2006 by ForGreatJustice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.