Found a simple solution to loading mags with a closed bolt

[Blaster 0]

I took Jonh Farnam's rifle and shotgun class a couple of weeks ago. His contention is that shotguns were originally designed for sporting purposes and therefore the safetys are unreliable. As a result he insisted that all shotguns be carried loaded but with the chamber empty Although he acknowledged that the S-12 is based on a military design, because he was not familure enough with the Saiga to know if it was drop safe he insisted that it be carried with a full mag but the chamber empty. When I informed him that I had no idea how to load a mag without chambering a round he suggested a very functional yet simple soluton. Lock the bolt to the rear, load the magazine, take your weak hand thumb and push down on the top round in the mag, SLOWLY RELEASE THE BOLT SO THAT IT RIDES OVER THE TOP ROUND, move your thumb, and hit the back of the bolt to make sure it is fully closed. Problem solved. Duuhhh why didn't I think of that before? Actually this should probably be called "How to have a loaded mag with the bolt closed" since this method still requires that the bolt be opened at some point.

 

By the way, does anyone know if the S-12 is drop safe???

Edited April 17, 2006 by Blaster

[Tetraptous 0]

Actually this should probably be called "How to have a loaded mag with the bolt closed" since this method still requires that the bolt be opened at some point.

 

By the way, does anyone know if the S-12 is drop safe???

 

Or... you could simply insert the magazine with the bolt closed in the first place. It's a little more challenging, but it's certainly possible. Before you "hook" the front edge of the magazine into the reciever, you need to compress the upper shell down by pressing it up against the closed bolt... then shift the magazine forward and hook in into the front edge and rotate the rear edge into the rear magazine catch, as normal. It's easier with 2 3/4" shells, but possible even with 3".

 

The Saiga-12 safety is better than some hunting rifles and shotgun, particularly older ones - however it's still nowhere near as good as a modern handgun safety where a solid plate sits between the hammer and the firing pin when the safety is on. Is it drop safe? Probably, but I wouldn't go tromping around the woods with the chamber loaded if I could avoid it.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

With about an hour of practice inserting loaded mags, you can do it without a problem with the bolt closed. Its all in the technique of the operator.

 

Without practicing, you'll look like a monkey fucking a football and never get it in.

[MikeD 541]

The ak style saftey is 100% drop safe. You can see this just by looking into the receiver with the cover off and remove the bolt carrier. You will see it is completely safe.

[pedal2alloy 206]

I took Jonh Farnam's rifle and shotgun class a couple of weeks ago. His contention is that shotguns were originally designed for sporting purposes and therefore the safetys are unreliable. As a result he insisted that all shotguns be carried loaded but with the chamber empty Although he acknowledged that the S-12 is based on a military design, because he was not familure enough with the Saiga to know if it was drop safe he insisted that it be carried with a full mag but the chamber empty. When I informed him that I had no idea how to load a mag without chambering a round he suggested a very functional yet simple soluton. Lock the bolt to the rear, load the magazine, take your weak hand thumb and push down on the top round in the mag, SLOWLY RELEASE THE BOLT SO THAT IT RIDES OVER THE TOP ROUND, move your thumb, and hit the back of the bolt to make sure it is fully closed. Problem solved. Duuhhh why didn't I think of that before? Actually this should probably be called "How to have a loaded mag with the bolt closed" since this method still requires that the bolt be opened at some point.

 

By the way, does anyone know if the S-12 is drop safe???

 

YIKES!!

 

Sure you can do this, but you can also shear your finger off.

 

It's a solution, but I wouldn't call it a "simple" solution.

[topmaul 42]

With about an hour of practice inserting loaded mags, you can do it without a problem with the bolt closed. Its all in the technique of the operator.

 

Without practicing, you'll look like a monkey fucking a football and never get it in.

 

I load them with the bolt closed all the time, yeah you need to practice it and it took me more than a few hours to get it right enough to stop holding the bolt back. I agree with Tony here.

 

Blaster, please don't take this the wrong way but a word of advice you might want to get very formilure with your weapon before taking at training course. A little quality time with your weapon saves all that monkey and football stuff we all hate so much. Especially when your paying good money for the training

 

You'll also find that shotgun courses are made for tube fed guns and some instructors are very inflexible because most of them know it all and have a my way or the highway attitude.

[ZakherBakher 1]

Or... you could simply insert the magazine with the bolt closed in the first place. It's a little more challenging, but it's certainly possible. Before you "hook" the front edge of the magazine into the reciever, you need to compress the upper shell down by pressing it up against the closed bolt... then shift the magazine forward and hook in into the front edge and rotate the rear edge into the rear magazine catch, as normal. It's easier with 2 3/4" shells, but possible even with 3".

 

If you're holding saiga in the right hand and attaching mag from below with left (or vice versa if you are southpaw) you can use Saiga's weight to help push upper shell down. It's a bit easier and quicker than just pressing it up against the bolt. So actually you can do both things at the same time.

[ironhead7544 35]

Try pushing the top round in the mag a little forward just before you load it in the gun. Polishing the bolt will also work.

[Tetraptous 0]

If you're holding saiga in the right hand and attaching mag from below with left (or vice versa if you are southpaw) you can use Saiga's weight to help push upper shell down. It's a bit easier and quicker than just pressing it up against the bolt. So actually you can do both things at the same time.

 

At the range, I usually put the gun on it's side when I try to load mags under a closed bolt - I'll try your technique next time I head out. While it works fine, I'd hate to have to swap mags. under stress.

[panaceabeachbum 0]

Like Tony mentioned just practice, hook the front of the mag and just rock it in place a few times, pay attention to whats going on and you,ll get the rythm in short order

[Gaddis 1,689]

Polishing the bolt will also work.

 

Um, okay.

 

We are talking about the Saiga's bolt here, right?

 

Because my first round still sticks sometimes.

[SinistralRifleman 0]

maybe I am a mutant or something, but I didn't have a hard time loading with a closed bolt with either of the mags I tried so far without any real practice.

 

The one thing I do screw up about 1 in 10 attempts is catching the front of the mag in first when rocking it back...oh well practice makes perfect.

[topmaul 42]

I put a white paint pen mark on the side of my gun to indicate the front of the mag well so I know where to place the pivot piont of the mag to rock it up for a good secure lock. I hate it when I miss. That whole monkey and football thing.

[inparidel 4]

"Drop safe??" Aks are among the most drop safe guns in the world. Empty chamber--or cruiser-ready, as it is called in matches and in the LEO community, is not really necessary.

[Blaster 0]

While it works fine, I'd hate to have to swap mags. under stress

 

 

 

Tetraptous...I would only use this technique in a non-threatening environment. In the middle of a firefight I would lock the bolt back, change mags, close the bolt and keep on shooting.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Blaster

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Well, I wouldn't say the AK is 100% drop safe. If the hammer/trigger pin retainer wire comes off, the hammer/trigger pins can back out, twist, and drop the hammer with the safety on.