Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I know I started a similar thread a few months ago...forget that one! Has anyone had any actual experience with these Hungarian AP-63 9x18's that Centerfire Systems now has for $139 -w- two mags? http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...&ProdID=319 Are they just a Saturday Night Special or has anyone heard anything good about them? They also have some Hungarian FEG Contract pistols (three choices) in 7.65 (32ACP) for the same price. Not really interested in a .32 though, would like to share ammo with my G-17 and the 9mm is the smallest cal. I trust for home and personal defense. They do have a CZ82 for $199.97 -w- two mags and holster. That one is probably more tested and reliable but if the AP-63 isn't junk, it is a lot cheaper and much sexier IMO. anyone know if that gun is double action like the CZ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) I know I started a similar thread a few months ago...forget that one! Has anyone had any actual experience with these Hungarian AP-63 9x18's that Centerfire Systems now has for $139 -w- two mags? http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...&ProdID=319 Are they just a Saturday Night Special or has anyone heard anything good about them? They also have some Hungarian FEG Contract pistols (three choices) in 7.65 (32ACP) for the same price. Not really interested in a .32 though, would like to share ammo with my G-17 and the 9mm is the smallest cal. I trust for home and personal defense. They do have a CZ82 for $199.97 -w- two mags and holster. That one is probably more tested and reliable but if the AP-63 isn't junk, it is a lot cheaper and much sexier IMO. anyone know if that gun is double action like the CZ? I had two of them. The double action trigger pull was horrendous. Single action was heavy, but useable. Accuracy, hard to say due to the trigger pull. The Aluminum frame was easy to scratch. Unless she has strong hands, I would find something else. For myself, I wouldn't want another one. Edited April 23, 2007 by Banshee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Hmmm... strong hands yes, but patience no... Ok well thanks for the info Banshee. That's what I love about this place! There are so many folks here with such a wide variety of experience with different firearms it's pretty easy to get a good answer to any question. What about the CZ? It's fugly but cheap from what I see, (sorry CZ lovers) is this a good inexpensive handgun for a beginner? I was also considering a Makorov. Shouldn't a girl with a Russian last name tote a Russian pistola...? "The Makarov 9 x 18 is a great little pistol loaded with features. The Makarov PM (Pistolet Makarova) evolved from WW2 Soviet Army requirements for a pistol, to be compact, safe and with stopping power. It replaced the Tokarev TT-33 pistol. The design of the Makarov 9x18 was based on the German Walther PP. The Soviet Army adopted the Makarov pistol as its new sidearm in 1951, and it continued to serve until 2003 when it was officially declared obsolete. But they will see much more use before they will be finally phased out of service with Russian military and law enforcement." While searching for info on the Makorov I found this comparison between the Taurus amd Mak. interesting... http://www.tucsonguns.com/Makarov_Shootout.php Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I have two Makarovs, a Russian and a Bulgarian. Both are great little guns. I carry the Bulgarian, but I replaced the grips with a set of Pierce Grips. They make it fit the hand better. I recommend Maks if you can find one a good price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I've seen lots of em for sale since they are surplus. What is considered a good price? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 This is what I think I'm gonna get for Mrs.J http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1058 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwsackett 0 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I picked up a Charter Arms (in their 1st incarnation) .44 Special... My wife has laid claim to it! Don't underestimate the "little ladies!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I've seen lots of em for sale since they are surplus. What is considered a good price? Bulgarian Maks seem to be on lower end of price scale--saw a couple for $180-200. Russian ones are on other end, about $575. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 This is what I think I'm gonna get for Mrs.Jhttp://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1058 I picked up a PA63 and rebarreled it for about $20 to .380 cal and lightened up the trigger. Nice little gun now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 I've seen lots of em for sale since they are surplus. What is considered a good price? Bulgarian Maks seem to be on lower end of price scale--saw a couple for $180-200. Russian ones are on other end, about $575. Ah, we're talking the lower end here. I can probably do about $200 w/o too much pain. I want to do this before I blow all my tax refund money. Really, I just want it soon to feel safe. I live alone with my 13 year old. I could scream at the top of my lungs and no one would hear me. I want something that would be easy for me to shoot under stressful circumstances. I don't need something that is deadly on first shot. I'm more than willing to shoot them and let them run away. I'm also more than willing to shoot someone multiple times if the message from the first one doesn't sink in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 This is what I think I'm gonna get for Mrs.Jhttp://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1058 I picked up a PA63 and rebarreled it for about $20 to .380 cal and lightened up the trigger. Nice little gun now. Doc did you mean AP-63? If so i may be PMing ya for details on the trigger upgrade. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 This is what I think I'm gonna get for Mrs.Jhttp://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1058 I picked up a PA63 and rebarreled it for about $20 to .380 cal and lightened up the trigger. Nice little gun now. Doc did you mean AP-63? If so i may be PMing ya for details on the trigger upgrade. One of these: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Hungari...Mak_Pistol.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Multiple doubletaps LOL! Get em honey! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Well shit! My bad! My typonese fu is strong...lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Well Racegal, how ya like that cute lil' two tone job? I'm a wiz with triggers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Well Racegal, how ya like that cute lil' two tone job? I'm a wiz with triggers! Seen a couple nice looking ones. But....until I pick it up, I'm not sure I'll know if it's right for me. Unless you have something similar...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 sounds like an excellent excuse to go to the next gunshow together Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 sounds like an excellent excuse to go to the next gunshow together Works for me. Name the time and place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) here are my two Maks the one with red grips is Russian, the other is Bulgarian Edited April 24, 2007 by Banshee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 How about the CZ52 at Classic Arms for $140. I ordered one today based on what others on this board said. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=15975 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Wow that does sound pretty neat! Is that ammo easy to come by and not too expensive? Sounds like penetration is no prob. Just like my G-17 though, it penetrates a little too far, too fast. I've driven hollow points over 8" into a green oak log without them even expanding. 7.62 is a much smaller round. What about stopping power? Do they make "exploding" rounds for those? I mean fragmentation not actual explosion... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) The down side is that the 52, or any other firearm using a high-velocity round, is less than ideal for home and personal defense. There is a very good chance of a bullet going clear through an intruder, and the wall behind him, to kill somebody in the next room or even across the street. Furthermore, this thing is loud; if I ever touched it off indoors, my statement to the cops would consist entirely of "WHAT?" There's also some question whether a small high-velocity load like this delivers much actual stopping power; it's argued, persuasively, that the bullet is likely to pass through the recipient's body and keep going without doing much serious damage - like stabbing somebody with an ice pick: eventually he's going to die, but not before he's had plenty of time to beat your brains out. On the other hand, the old Mauser had a fearsome reputation for shattering bone, as did the Tokarev. About all that can be said for sure is that the 7.62x25 isn't something you'd want to get shot with, but then what is? The above comes form an excellent article at http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/52.html Ammunition appears to be cheap and plenitful. I would like one just to play with. Personally, both my girls shoot .45 ACP and really like them. Serious step up in price though. Hope this helps and good luck. 1911 Edited April 24, 2007 by 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Wow that does sound pretty neat! Is that ammo easy to come by and not too expensive?Sounds like penetration is no prob. Just like my G-17 though, it penetrates a little too far, too fast. I've driven hollow points over 8" into a green oak log without them even expanding. 7.62 is a much smaller round. What about stopping power? Do they make "exploding" rounds for those? I mean fragmentation not actual explosion... Some of the 7.62x25 rounds are pretty hot, and can penetrate light armor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hello, Cobra Might be out of context with all of these Russian weapons, but for something to be slipped into a purse or whatever, the Kel-Tec .380 is pretty slick, they can be had for about $220 I believe. Intentionally heavy trigger pull, and not something that's much fun to put 500 rounds through at the range in a day, due to it's size, but very reliable, new, with lifetime warranty, "exploding" ammo abounds, and it really fits a woman's hand well. To me, the simple fact that the weapon is configured to "be available" when needed overshadows a lot of less-important details. The Kel-Tec is as small and carryable as anything that is a reliable S/D weapon. JMHO, Guido2 in Houston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 If you want something easy to handle under stress then get a revolver. For a concealment gun then a 2 inch 38 spec. You should be able to find a used gun in the 200.00 range. Personally, going cheap on a self defense gun doesnt make sense to me. Sell something and come up with the money for a quality gun. Just my .02. The Charter Arms guns are good and have a low new price. Thats the cheapest I would rely on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 If you want something easy to handle under stress then get a revolver. For a concealment gun then a 2 inch 38 spec. You should be able to find a used gun in the 200.00 range. Personally, going cheap on a self defense gun doesnt make sense to me. Sell something and come up with the money for a quality gun. Just my .02. The Charter Arms guns are good and have a low new price. Thats the cheapest I would rely on. Personally, I don't think $200 is going cheap. From the stand point of someone who isn't getting child support. But it's better than the alternative. I'm a small person. Just about any guy could overpower me. I need something to protect myself from a distance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwsackett 0 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) If you want something easy to handle under stress then get a revolver. For a concealment gun then a 2 inch 38 spec. You should be able to find a used gun in the 200.00 range. Personally, going cheap on a self defense gun doesnt make sense to me. Sell something and come up with the money for a quality gun. Just my .02. The Charter Arms guns are good and have a low new price. Thats the cheapest I would rely on. Personally, I don't think $200 is going cheap. From the stand point of someone who isn't getting child support. But it's better than the alternative. I'm a small person. Just about any guy could overpower me. I need something to protect myself from a distance. I think Ironhead is suggesting something that I was (not well) trying to say. Not that $200 is cheap, but that you prob. don't want to spend much less than that. Charter Arms has had a mixed reputation, but the current weapon is very affordable @ around $200 and is a revolver. I highly recommend some type of revolver for reliability and ease of use. My wife really likes my .44 special and a .38 special is affordable, managable, reliable, and as small as I would feel responsible in advocating for a self defense/home protection type weapon. Obviously, Taurus and S&W have good reps but they are much more costly. Edited April 24, 2007 by USpride Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Combat Medic 5 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Makarov is hot stuff get one ammo is cheap and the guns very easy to hide in a pancake holster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 "exploding" ammo abounds, I was looking at the Kel-Tec but because its only in .380 I wanted a really hot load http://www.magsafeonline.com/ but that is a no-no for the Kel-Tec's frame. I ended up with the Bersa, its higher priced than the Kel-Tec so that probally knocks it out of the running here. Most of the Charter Arms guns MSRP seem to be in the mid $300's so they are out too. Personally I think if you went Tritium's route of re-barreling sounds like the way to go, as long as the gun feels good in her hands because that is the real test Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) Thanks for all the help fellas. Yeah Joe I'm thinking that is probably the best move for the money. I'm not trying to go cheap with important stuff here but having ANY gun that works is way better than risking something bad happening while you are saving up to get something nicer. I'm all about starting with a high quality firearm, that's why I dropped $450 on my G-17 for my first handgun purchase, but she and I are both too strapped right now to afford a real nice gun. I like the look of the PA63 and the option of using either 9x18 or getting a .380 bbl. for cheap. Doc told me the hammer spring is pretty easy to swap out for a lighter pull. Being modeled after the Walther it is probably very easy on the eyes and hands, that's what I meant by sexy BTW, and I know a lot of ladies like the Walther and how it fits the hand. Being double action is also a plus. For that price it would be worth checking out I think. Later on down the road we will surely come across a good deal on a better gun. As long as it goes bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang...lol! As for revolvers, yes I know that it's popular opinion that they are the best for reliability but she specifically did not like loading and unloading my revolver and wants a mag fed gun. Combat Medic please tell me that Mak is not loaded... lol ALWAYS remember trigger control...and muzzle control... Edited April 24, 2007 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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