Mr. Rx 0 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Purpose of the gun is home defense... and a little bit of a toy. What I plan on ordering: -Stock: Ace M4 Six-Position or probably a SOCOM setup to fold. -FCG: Tapco G2 Single hook -Pistol Grip: Tapco SAW -PG bolt and nut: Nut , and the bolt comes with the Tapco SAW PG, right? -HG: Tri-rail guy from dinzag -Vertical Grip: UTG Deluxe Vertical Foregrip -Barrel rail for the light mount: here -Light: Surefire G2, or a ~$35 LED 1 or 3/4" light, suggestions? -Light Mount: this guy -Retaining plate: Shepherd's Crook Replacement -Recoil Buffer: Black Jack Buffer -Sights: something cheap The questions, in order of my interest: 1. Does the side-folding mechanism (ACE) kick ass? If it makes the stock wobbly at all when extended, I won't be happy. In other words, does it lock? Are there any disadvantages? I want to be able to slam it home like a first-timer into my shoulder, put it on the ground, etc., without pivot. 2. Internal vs external receiver block. The internal looks a lot better. If I dremel the top tangs off my gun's receiver, it'll go right on? No welding or other trouble required? Anything I'm missing? 3. Will a Surefire G2's bulb hold up to the recoil? 4. Are the recoil buffers worth the money? Any disadvantages? 5. Suggestions on the cheapest sights worth buying? I might just go with a $30 laser and call it a day. 6. Is there anything I'm missing for my conversion? 7. Is any of the stuff I've listed above junk? I see that the company that makes the vertical grip also makes a lot of Airsoft stuff... Thanks much for your time. I've spent about five hours today researching this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 #1...YES...no BS...Great stock..solid as a rock. 2. Internal looks great ...if you are only looking at the nice clean hinge behind the receiver....otherwise the internal block will leave you with a stock that looks like it's been run over by a mac truck. (bent upwards at the rear) They have supposedly fixed that problem though...but I have been checking and still not seen a more modern block offered with the correct angle. 3. Probably, that's their business. 4. YMMV, I like em because they save my rear trunnion from getting battered. 5. You get what you pay for. You wanna spend $30, you might as well call it a day. 6. PM sent...lol 7. Retaining plate: Shepherd's Crook Replacement This will have to be modified slightly to work in the 12. YMMV again but this has been my experience. The "L" shaped wire retainer from Tapco or DPH will do the same job for half the price and needs no mods to work. Have fun with it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 (4) The recoil buffers stop the bolt carrier from reaching its full travel. This may translate into more felt recoil. If your bolt carrier is 'battering your rear trunnion', perhaps you need new (or stronger) recoil springs. If Mr. Kalashnikov would have wanted a recoil buffer of that type, he'd have designed on for the weapon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acercanto 6 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 (1) I found the Ace Socom for about $12 cheaper at Del-Ton, Inc. If you figure shipping in, it may be a wash, but it's worth a look. (3) In regards to the diameter, get a scope ring that'll fit whatever light you get (3/4" or 1") and slap that on. Presto! Acer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mindfork 0 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Most of the parts you listed at blackjack can be had at jse for less. http://www.jsesurplus.com Except for that damn pistol grip nut...I couldn't find that anywhere else, so I ended up buying a buffer (for whatever it is/isn't worth) too, and shipping on those two tiny parts was $11 via ups from blackjack. No usps option. Way too high to pay for shipping ONE OUNCE. (1) I found the Ace Socom for about $12 cheaper at Del-Ton, Inc. If you figure shipping in, it may be a wash, but it's worth a look. (3) In regards to the diameter, get a scope ring that'll fit whatever light you get (3/4" or 1") and slap that on. Presto! Acer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Purpose of the gun is home defense... and a little bit of a toy. What I plan on ordering: -Stock: Ace M4 Six-Position or probably a SOCOM setup to fold. -FCG: Tapco G2 Single hook -Pistol Grip: Tapco SAW -PG bolt and nut: Nut , and the bolt comes with the Tapco SAW PG, right? -HG: Tri-rail guy from dinzag -Vertical Grip: UTG Deluxe Vertical Foregrip -Barrel rail for the light mount: here -Light: Surefire G2, or a ~$35 LED 1 or 3/4" light, suggestions? -Light Mount: this guy -Retaining plate: Shepherd's Crook Replacement -Recoil Buffer: Black Jack Buffer -Sights: something cheap The questions, in order of my interest: 1. Does the side-folding mechanism (ACE) kick ass? If it makes the stock wobbly at all when extended, I won't be happy. In other words, does it lock? Are there any disadvantages? I want to be able to slam it home like a first-timer into my shoulder, put it on the ground, etc., without pivot. 2. Internal vs external receiver block. The internal looks a lot better. If I dremel the top tangs off my gun's receiver, it'll go right on? No welding or other trouble required? Anything I'm missing? 3. Will a Surefire G2's bulb hold up to the recoil? 4. Are the recoil buffers worth the money? Any disadvantages? 5. Suggestions on the cheapest sights worth buying? I might just go with a $30 laser and call it a day. 6. Is there anything I'm missing for my conversion? 7. Is any of the stuff I've listed above junk? I see that the company that makes the vertical grip also makes a lot of Airsoft stuff... Thanks much for your time. I've spent about five hours today researching this. 1) ACE will not wbble or cave. They ARE truly a serious professional piece of EQ. I DO, however, recommend using Loctite blue on the screws to eliminate screws backing off due to vibration. 2) Internal necessitates you sawing off your tang. If you decide to use another stock in the future, you are screwed. I don't believe in removong things--burning bridges. I use the standard receiver block and I left fold, so the stock (doesn't matter if Galil-style or six position) will rest on the left clamped mag [clamped mags are highly recommended] and simply fall farther closed under the spring tension after mag swap. Right folding kind of blocks the use of clamped mags. 3) Surefires usually will. DO NOT use a Scorpion or any other lite that is only intended for hand-held use. 4) Buffertech buffers are the best for AK rifles, BUT. . .in shottys, theymay interfere with the timing of SOME S-12s, so the Blackjacks may be the better choice. Definitely worth the $ and trouble. steel on steel bad, steel on buffer good. 5) You can use the Leatherwood dot sight. At $75 a good buy. There are many MUCH cheaper red dots you can find, but they MAY or MAY NOT do what you want reliably or in rain. I use the Kobra. It is tried and proven in CHechnya under extreme conditions, and is not only designed for the AK platform, but is a damn sight (no pun intended) cheaper than Aimpoint of EoTech. 6) I highly recommend a vertical grip. I use the TDI short model. Be careful of your parts count when deciding ANY add-on part. Example: The TDI is a fantastic forend, BUT. . .it IS imported. Maybe Israel and not from Russia, but it IS still imported. I suggest asking a local lawyer to be sure, but if you have a US rail forend and a TDI vertical grip on it, I don't think that that makes your entire forend "foreign" for 922 purposes. The light can be mounted on the CAA or TDI forend making any additional light mount unnecessary. Re: FCGs: Personally, don't like the G2, because it lacks ANY "second stage" before it goes bang, which I find necessary. Actually, there are other FCGs, like the Century (believe it or not) or other brands (K-Var) that will give you a slight "second stage" befor bang. The second stage in an AK FCG is really nothing more than the hammer back coming in contact with the disconnector and engaging the added disconnector spring pressure. In the G2, the hammer NEVER comes in contact wih the disconnector prior to hammer release. I find trhat the G2 disconnector is too small to allow hammer contact. IF you have control of the number of US parts, you can leave in the factory hammer, which is longer and may contact the disconnector (G2, unlikely, or likely some other brand of hammer). 7) I suggest serious vertical grips and all parts in general. SOME airsoft stuff is identical to real gun stuff, but some isn't. I have reallt great vertical fornd grips from CAA, TDI and other mfgs (for my AR, for instance) that will work well as well as be reasonably economical ($26.00). If you have questions, I can post pics. I don't remember the brands of some of the stuff I use. I hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 6) I highly recommend a vertical grip. I use the TDI short model. Be careful of your parts count when deciding ANY add-on part. Example: The TDI is a fantastic forend, BUT. . .it IS imported. Maybe Israel and not from Russia, but it IS still imported. I suggest asking a local lawyer to be sure, but if you have a US rail forend and a TDI vertical grip on it, I don't think that that makes your entire forend "foreign" for 922 purposes. The light can be mounted on the CAA or TDI forend making any additional light mount unnecessary. First, although the vertical grip looks good and you may find it convenient, you should consider trying not to use one (I know -- I have one on my AK!) Two reasons: 1) The front of the mag makes a very convenient grip and provides a better balance point. 2) If you pick an AK up off the ground, odds are it won't have a vertical grip. If you rely on one for shooting, you may be in trouble. Second, vertical foregrips have absolutely no bearing on parts count for 922R compliance. Pistol grips do, but as an attachment the foregrip does not count as part of the forend. )The origin of the forend is a different story -- that is considered a compliance part). Unless your state has some separate restriction on the use of foregrips, it doesn't make any difference to the Alphabet Police. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 6) I highly recommend a vertical grip. I use the TDI short model. Be careful of your parts count when deciding ANY add-on part. Example: The TDI is a fantastic forend, BUT. . .it IS imported. Maybe Israel and not from Russia, but it IS still imported. I suggest asking a local lawyer to be sure, but if you have a US rail forend and a TDI vertical grip on it, I don't think that that makes your entire forend "foreign" for 922 purposes. The light can be mounted on the CAA or TDI forend making any additional light mount unnecessary. First, although the vertical grip looks good and you may find it convenient, you should consider trying not to use one (I know -- I have one on my AK!) Two reasons: 1) The front of the mag makes a very convenient grip and provides a better balance point. 2) If you pick an AK up off the ground, odds are it won't have a vertical grip. If you rely on one for shooting, you may be in trouble. Second, vertical foregrips have absolutely no bearing on parts count for 922R compliance. Pistol grips do, but as an attachment the foregrip does not count as part of the forend. )The origin of the forend is a different story -- that is considered a compliance part). Unless your state has some separate restriction on the use of foregrips, it doesn't make any difference to the Alphabet Police. Jim I generally agree, but SOME mags will take a crap if used as a grip (and SOME won't). Luck of the draw and your mods to the mag that get it working. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Navy87Guy, if you have a KABLOWIE, it's gonna vent out the mag well. I'd rather have the dedicated foregrip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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