Should I get rid of Cent. R1A1 for Saiga .308?

[engbob 0]

I have a Century R1A1, as i wanted to get a .308 rifle. I have a Saiga .223 which i just finshed doing the conversion to. I really like my .223 so was wondering, (after reading all the horror stories people have with Centurys), if i should just get rid of the FAL for a Saiga .308? Looking at the current prices i feel like i should be able to at least get a straight up trade for it, your thoughts? BTW, i'd love to own both, but don't have that kind of money, which is why i'm posting this

[nalioth 405]

Is there something wrong with your R1A1 ?

 

Century managed to produce a few functional rifles, you know. Century also had Imbel make receivers for them (YES, really), and some of their FALs are pretty good quality (for Century).

Edited December 23, 2007 by nalioth

[engbob 0]

To be honest (and i know everyone is gonna yell at me for this), i haven't even fired it yet. It's just that i really like my .223 Saiga, and kinda wanted another one. My main concern was hearing all the horror stories people had with the Centurys' and having to mess with the headspacing and all that kinda thing. I did my own conversion for the .223, but i'm thinking IF i have probs with my Century, that they will be above my head as far as fixing them

[Motopilot1 37]

well if you want a traight trade i will trade you a NIB saiga 308 for it

[Motopilot1 37]

excuse the typo straight trade i already have 3 saigas but no fal

[Azrial 1,091]

Engbob, you consider shooting your FAL and see how it performs. It is a whole different type of rifle and superior to the Saiga .308 in many ways.

 

Jeff Cooper said, when asked to compare the AK47 to the FAL, "The AK is the rifle of the masses, the FAL is the rifle of the classes.

 

I am not saying that the Saiga is not a "good" rifle, I am saying that sometimes enthusiasts of the AK design forget the rifles original design parameters, "low cost, dependable under adverse conditions, easy to understand operation."

[engbob 0]

Yea, i guess i'll give it a shot (pardon the pun).

[KySoldier 2]

Hope your Century turns out to be a good one, otherwise you'll just be turning a NIB rifle into a used one with known problems. But I agree the FAL is a nice design.

[Saigaczech 9]

To be honest (and i know everyone is gonna yell at me for this), i haven't even fired it yet. It's just that i really like my .223 Saiga, and kinda wanted another one. My main concern was hearing all the horror stories people had with the Centurys' and having to mess with the headspacing and all that kinda thing. I did my own conversion for the .223, but i'm thinking IF i have probs with my Century, that they will be above my head as far as fixing them

 

 

I had a Century R1A1 and it was a great gun. Sold it to friend to finance a DSA SA-58 Carbine and later wished I had the Century gun back instead. I got my Saiga 308 now because I can not afford to buy high end 308 battle rifles anymore. I would try the Century and see how it works and if it works OK and has 3MOA or better group at 100 yards I would keep it. Magazines are much easier to find and cheaper for FAL. My Century was an old one built on a Hesse receiver but it shot great and had no malfunctions. Your mileage may vary.

[engbob 0]

I got it used (slightly used) so not really concerned about losing money on the gun. If i don't like itm i'd takew the hit anyway to get something that i like

[mr. fudd 0]

I sold my R1A1 to finance a Saiga and I prefer the Saiga, but I still wish I had the R1A1. Both guns have their pros and cons. The R1A1 has cheap mags, better sights, better sight mounting options and better ergonomics. Accuracy is about equal. The Saiga is more reliable and far more compact, (at least as I have it, converted and with an Ace folder). The Saiga wins on price, until you take into account the price of mags.

[Azrial 1,091]

......Accuracy is about equal......

In your case that may have been so. There are some inaccurate FALs out there and they will not usually shoot with an M1A. However, 10 random FAL 7.62x51 Vs. 10 random Saiga 7.62x51, I will cover any bets that the group of FALs will have higher mean accuracy.

 

Not to mention,

Automatic bolt hold open,

Adjustable gas system,

Forged or investment cast receivers,

Better sights,

better machine work,

better "right hand" ergonomics,

better system for retaining the HST,

and the aforementioned cheaper mags.

 

Dependability under adverse conditions, cost and ease of use, I will give to the Saiga. Only you can decide which is better for you.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Azrial

[mr. fudd 0]

......Accuracy is about equal......

In your case that may have been so. There are some inaccurate FALs out there and they will not usually shoot with an M1A. However, 10 random FAL 7.62x51 Vs. 10 random Saiga 7.62x51, I will cover any bets that the group of FALs will have higher mean accuracy.

 

Not to mention,

Automatic bolt hold open,

Adjustable gas system,

Forged or investment cast receivers,

Better sights,

better machine work,

better "right hand" ergonomics,

better system for retaining the HST,

and the aforementioned cheaper mags.

 

Dependability under adverse conditions, cost and ease of use, I will give to the Saiga. Only you can decide which is better for you.

 

If you were pitting 10 Century R1A1's up against 10 Saiga 308's, then I would take that bet and I think I would win. As I got mine, it was a 3 MOA rifle with a trigger that felt like it had been finished with a rasp and the gas system had to be fully opened for it to cycle with South African ammo.

[Tokageko 8]

Ditto on the triggers. I've never felt a Century FAL trigger that wasn't spongy or gritty. Saiga-308's on the other hand, have been pretty consistant regarding trigger-pull. Some creep, light for a military rifle, and smoother as compared to the FAL's. Note: those are all CAI built FAL's. I've never gotten my hands on a DSA. Oh, and my assessment of the trigger on the Saiga 308 is *after* learning to pull more up than back.

[Saigaczech 9]

DSA triggers are not much better. The problem is the heavy springs used in the FAL design. There are people out there that sell trigger kits (mostly reduced power springs) but I heard negative things concerning reliability with those, especially for surplus ammo users. Face it a FAL is a FAL, the only real difference is in fit of receivers and finish of the gun. Unless you free float the barrel they are only meant for 2 MOA at best with military loads. Good enough for government work, as they say. I still say keep the gun if it shoots 3 MOA or better and get a Saiga to complement it.

[mr. fudd 0]

The trigger on my R1A1 improved drastically when I replaced the Century parts. It didn't make it a terrific trigger, just alright, but that was a huge improvement right there.

[engbob 0]

My only worry is shooting the damn thing and having it blow up in my face bc the headspacing is off. It is used, so one would ASSUME that it was ok. But i'd rather not lose half my face on an assumption. I was looking around and it looks like i could get between 500-600 for it used (maybe more if i get really lucky). At this point i'm on the fence with what to do. If i sold it, i could get enough for a Saiga .308 plus most, if not all of the conversion parts. decisions, decisions

[mr. fudd 0]

My guess is you could get around $600 to $650 for it, particularly if it has an Imbel receiver. FAL's have become more scarce and cost more than they used to.

 

I've done a couple of Saiga conversions now. With my .308 I went all out and got an Ace folder, RSA trigger, FAL style pistol grip, Krebs peep sight and an AK74 style brake. I'm in that one over $700. With my Saiga .223 I did the total opposite. I got the rifle new for around $250 and then added a Tapco folder that I got from a local gun shop for $25. I still had the old Century pistol grip and trigger group out of my SAR3, so I slapped those in it as well. With the pistol grip nut and other hardware the total price was around $280. If I'd had to buy the pistol grip and trigger group, it would have run me around $320.

 

Right now there are two more Saiga's I'm going to convert in the future. A friend of mine has an S12 that he wants me to go the cheap route on. I was able to order all the parts from Copes for $125. I could have saved an additional $16 if I'd ordered a green or tan folder, and if I'd wanted to go real cheap, I could have ordered a Dragunov stock for $10 and done the entire conversion for about $50. I've also got an X39 that I'm planning on doing with Iron Wood Designs furniture and an RSA trigger. That will probably cost me closer to $250.

[engbob 0]

it doesn't have the imbel receiver ( at least I don't think so, it says Century on it) it also has the dreaded ''unibrow''. so that's why I was going with the low end guess on the sale price. I think i'm leaning closer to getting rid of it so that I can get a Saiga .308 before the prices start getting out of hand. Is there that much of an accuracy difference between the longer and shorter barrel? I know the longer the better, but i'm thinking of the 200-300 yd range.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Actually, some people claim the 16" is as accurate, if not more so than the 21". Get the one you like the most, I hear the barrel length makes little difference.

[engbob 0]

So i finally went to the range with this FAL of mine, and found that it would not feed on the right side (meaning any rounds coming up on right side of mag would get stuck on ramp). I tried to polish the ramp, but to no avail. Any ideas on what this useless hunk of metal is worth? Maybe someone with more skill and patience can get it working

[nalioth 405]

I"m sure if you ask in http://www.falfiles.com they can help you with it.

[Twinsen 86]

First of all, try a different magazine if you haven't already. I've accused a couple guns of jamming when it was just a crappy used magazine.

 

Second, get a DSA. FALs are amazing, as it turns out, because as Azrial said

Automatic bolt hold open,

Adjustable gas system,

Forged or investment cast receivers,

Better sights,

better machine work,

better "right hand" ergonomics,

better system for retaining the HST,

and the aforementioned cheaper mags.

 

The FAL has a lot on the AK design. I always liked the G3 and M14 designs, until I had fired them and the FAL on several occasions. From now on, I'm not buying a rifle unless it's an AK, FAL, or M14. But the FAL rules the land of .308.

[engbob 0]

i just don't have that kinda money to spend, thinking i'm gonna get rid of the Century and get a Saiga .308

[Twinsen 86]

A used one probably runs $100 more than the one you have.

[ArcFault 4]

Do what you gotta do I guess, but I'll tell you, I used to own three FALs until I decided I only needed two. Now I have only two and I have regretted selling that thing ever since. I got good money for it, so that isn't the problem. I just like the damned things. I now have a DSA and a Century and they're both accurate and reliable, the DSA just looks better.

 

I love my Saiga .308, but I don't think I would trade a FAL for one.

 

Get to know it a little better and try another mag, I doubt the gun is junk, but it has happened. The one I sold didn't work when I bought it, I think thats why I got it for a song. It took a little tinkering but when I was done it functioned flawlessly.

 

I would try to get it to work, besides, it's fun to learn another weapon anyway.

 

Don't get me wrong, you will enjoy another Saiga, but see if you don't regret selling your FAL for one (once you have fixed it and put a few rounds through it of course.)

 

Now, if your FAL is indeed junk, then the Saiga would be worth it of course, but you will never know unless you try and fix it.

[bluedog 0]

A converted Saiga 308 with ten magazines will cost more than a Century FAL with ten magazines. A lot more.

 

I have a Cetme, (with ACE side Folder) an FAL, an M14, and a Saiga 308. If I could keep only one, it would probably be the Saiga, if and only if I had ten hi-cap mags, which I do not. My second choice would be the CETME if and only if I had a functional scope mount, which I do not. The M14 is just too damn big and clumsy. That leaves the FAL, for now. It is accurate, reliable, and fast handling (despite it's length)