12 Gauge Silver Bear 7 1/2 Shot

[ar15pistolpimp 0]

Anyone use 12 Gauge Silver Bear 7 1/2 Shot Ammo. I can get a great price for this ammo. I know its 7 1/2 bird shot but I wanted to use it at the skeet range. I can get 1000 rounds for 400 bucks. Its made by Barnual super clean not anything like wolf (My fav 7.62 x 29 is the nickle 124 grn), any thoughts?

too b

[Twinsen 86]

My first thought is that that's $0.40 per shot plus shipping. Walmart = $0.16 a shot.

 

If it was brass, I'd buy it and reload it.

[whatmanual 44]

I posted on these a long time ago... I still have a couple boxes of 10 sitting in the safe at the moment too.

 

Short version: Essentially - they suck in my opinion.

 

Longer version:

Originally I bought them thinking I would have a steel case for the top round to reduce deforms while loaded on the bolt...

The problem I had with these rounds were 2 things:

1) the rim for extraction is part of the steel case and its rather slim. There's a chance (and more often when the gun warms up) for the extractor to literally slip off that rim. The rim seems rather slim to me.

 

2) What you basically have is a 3" case that is "plugged" back to about 1/2 inch or so (too tired to look up my actual measure of it.

Well, that causes a problem if you use a bolt that isnt shaved down underneath (even then, I doubt it would solve the problem).

If the magazine is full (10 rounder for example) then when you "rack" the bolt back to chamber the 1st round, it will catch and literally "crimp" that unsupported end of the shell (remember, its plugged in a bit). I supposed if you only loaded up 9 shells you would have the room to perhaps "encourage" the shell to move into the magazine a little....but again, it has no support and will probably crimp/jam on you.

 

 

 

(*also, as most russian rounds go, not reloadable as far as I can tell....good luck on that)

 

I'll try to dig through some of my older posts and update this one......save your money. Buy shells that are "full". The shells are fine for single loading for fun or perhaps the last 3 shells in a mag since there's much less spring pressure....for the most part.

 

 

 

HERE it is...just look for my avatar down in there for my results/opinions:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18532

 

 

 

~S

Edited January 5, 2008 by whatmanual

[ar15pistolpimp 0]

I posted on these a long time ago... I still have a couple boxes of 10 sitting in the safe at the moment too.

 

Short version: Essentially - they suck in my opinion.

 

Longer version:

Originally I bought them thinking I would have a steel case for the top round to reduce deforms while loaded on the bolt...

The problem I had with these rounds were 2 things:

1) the rim for extraction is part of the steel case and its rather slim. There's a chance (and more often when the gun warms up) for the extractor to literally slip off that rim. The rim seems rather slim to me.

 

2) What you basically have is a 3" case that is "plugged" back to about 1/2 inch or so (too tired to look up my actual measure of it.

Well, that causes a problem if you use a bolt that isnt shaved down underneath (even then, I doubt it would solve the problem).

If the magazine is full (10 rounder for example) then when you "rack" the bolt back to chamber the 1st round, it will catch and literally "crimp" that unsupported end of the shell (remember, its plugged in a bit). I supposed if you only loaded up 9 shells you would have the room to perhaps "encourage" the shell to move into the magazine a little....but again, it has no support and will probably crimp/jam on you.

 

 

 

(*also, as most russian rounds go, not reloadable as far as I can tell....good luck on that)

 

I'll try to dig through some of my older posts and update this one......save your money. Buy shells that are "full". The shells are fine for single loading for fun or perhaps the last 3 shells in a mag since there's much less spring pressure....for the most part.

 

 

 

HERE it is...just look for my avatar down in there for my results/opinions:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18532

 

 

 

~S

Thanks for the info I'll be passing on these. What it the exact shell at walmart for .16 cents ea. He speaks of

[whatmanual 44]

well considering .16 x 25 = $4 a box, I would think its Winchester Super Sport or some bird/clay shot.

They dont stock buck or slugs at 25 shells per box.

[Twinsen 86]

Federal or Winchester birdshot in the 100 round packs. $16... probably $17 for 100. I can't get the Winchester stuff to cycle in my Saiga, but the Fed stuff does.

[hkusp45 8]

I can get Federal Low Recoil 9 pellet 00 buck for about $85.00 per 250 round case. Anyone thats local is more than welcome to come get some as I can get it anytime at that price.

[uzitiger 193]

I used the Silver Bear 7 1/2 shot in my Saiga and it worked flawlessly. This is the first time I shot my Saiga and it fed them. The paper target looked like a window screen when I finished. For defense I would use buckshot not 7 1/2 shot.

 

My Verona choked on it and would not extract. I had to use a cleaning rod and screwdriver to get the empty case out.

 

I wouldn't pay $.40 per round when I can get 100 rounds for about $17.00 of Winchester or another American brand.

Edited January 9, 2008 by uzitiger

[Zoub 0]

Generally speaking, when it comes to to cheap "promotional" loads, Winchester will not work worth a shit in any gauge in any semi auto shotugn. I have reached the point where I do not even like that crap in my pump guns. Just not enough powder. Spend the extra dollar or two per 100 to get more drams. Your saiga will be happier.

 

A friend was having issues with his S12 at a recent shoot until I handed him some of my Federal ammo. Problem solved. Federal makes a load just above the Promo stuff that is not bad for general blasting and bird hunting.

 

Even with a pump gun, there are times when you feel the cheap shit hang up on extraction. It may be a mental block now, and most of the time it does not even slow me down but for the past two years I have been cycling out ALL the cheap shit ammo/hulls. I am almost there. Nothing but brass hulls for me in all my ammo..

 

Not because of price but due to fact I just can not find the loads I want, when I want them, I may go out and get a damn 12 gauge reloader. Lately, it feels more and more like the mid 1970's. Economy, price of gas, jump in ammo and components cost, QC on some ammo. If I do this, I promise you my "Low brass" bird shot loads required for club shoots will be hot as hell. I will call them ass burner #6's.

 

Here is some good general info on hulls:

 

 

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/artic..._in_general.htm

[ar15pistolpimp 0]

Generally speaking, when it comes to to cheap "promotional" loads, Winchester will not work worth a shit in any gauge in any semi auto shotugn. I have reached the point where I do not even like that crap in my pump guns. Just not enough powder. Spend the extra dollar or two per 100 to get more drams. Your saiga will be happier.

 

A friend was having issues with his S12 at a recent shoot until I handed him some of my Federal ammo. Problem solved. Federal makes a load just above the Promo stuff that is not bad for general blasting and bird hunting.

 

Even with a pump gun, there are times when you feel the cheap shit hang up on extraction. It may be a mental block now, and most of the time it does not even slow me down but for the past two years I have been cycling out ALL the cheap shit ammo/hulls. I am almost there. Nothing but brass hulls for me in all my ammo..

 

Not because of price but due to fact I just can not find the loads I want, when I want them, I may go out and get a damn 12 gauge reloader. Lately, it feels more and more like the mid 1970's. Economy, price of gas, jump in ammo and components cost, QC on some ammo. If I do this, I promise you my "Low brass" bird shot loads required for club shoots will be hot as hell. I will call them ass burner #6's.

 

Here is some good general info on hulls:

 

 

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/artic..._in_general.htm

can you explain the exact meaning of DRAMS

[patriot 7,197]

One word.... GOOGLE

[G O B 3,516]

Dram Equivalent. The approximate equivalent of the propellant in black powder. The shotgun is an OLD weapon, some of the terms associated with it are archaic.

[Zoub 0]

Generally speaking, when it comes to to cheap "promotional" loads, Winchester will not work worth a shit in any gauge in any semi auto shotugn. I have reached the point where I do not even like that crap in my pump guns. Just not enough powder. Spend the extra dollar or two per 100 to get more drams. Your saiga will be happier.

 

A friend was having issues with his S12 at a recent shoot until I handed him some of my Federal ammo. Problem solved. Federal makes a load just above the Promo stuff that is not bad for general blasting and bird hunting.

 

Even with a pump gun, there are times when you feel the cheap shit hang up on extraction. It may be a mental block now, and most of the time it does not even slow me down but for the past two years I have been cycling out ALL the cheap shit ammo/hulls. I am almost there. Nothing but brass hulls for me in all my ammo..

 

Not because of price but due to fact I just can not find the loads I want, when I want them, I may go out and get a damn 12 gauge reloader. Lately, it feels more and more like the mid 1970's. Economy, price of gas, jump in ammo and components cost, QC on some ammo. If I do this, I promise you my "Low brass" bird shot loads required for club shoots will be hot as hell. I will call them ass burner #6's.

 

Here is some good general info on hulls:

 

 

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/artic..._in_general.htm

can you explain the exact meaning of DRAMS

Gun go bigger boom, and likey much more.

 

As if that is not crap enough, some loads will not have DRAM equivalent on them, just the FPS or velcoity of the load in the shell. Well, faster loads generally mean a bit less shot and/or maybe more powder. Either way, the faster loads generally have some good knock down power. Loads labled like that are usually target loads but it pays to understand all this when shopping for deals. Or when traveling and you have to buy from what is available. Too light a load will not cycle guns for shit.

 

The DRAM equivalent thing was dated in the 70's when I started shooting a lot of shotgun, but how it has hung on this long is baffling? I think people are conditioned to it so they get pissed when it is not there. What pisses me off is the loads with velocity marked on them but no DRAMS#, it makes it hard to compare to other loads. You basically have to buy them, shoot them and decide if you like them. Weight, velocity and maybe FT/lbs at the muzzle would be nice info to have on each load to compare them.

 

Rant off.............Your Saiga is a soft shooting gun anyway so feed it more DRAMS!!!

Edited January 12, 2008 by Zoub

[mike12345 18]

Drams was a blackpowder measurement, You cant safely measure smokeless powder by volume so you measure it by grains.

 

Drams are meaningless, so you know how much blackpowder by volume the charge is equal to...... whoop de fuckin do.

 

ETA: The higher drams the less shot your probably pushing. I personaly will give up velocity a lot of times for more shot, unless im shooting at fast moving birds. Just look at how meny ounces of shot and the muzzle velocity on the box.

Edited January 13, 2008 by mike123456