RangerM9 1 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Well....here I sit in WI.....and we cannot carry concealed here....illegal.....bogus!. so yesterday at work, one of our lesser intellects decides to open the security door of my building for a dude in dirty jeans, army jacket, dreadlocks, and reeking of booze....the genius at the door just heard him knock and popped the door open and walked off....didn't even look at who it was......we have the security tapes....know this is how it went down. So anyway, the guy is now inside the first real layer of security, when someone spots him and realized he doesn't belong in there. This person confront him to ask him to leave and promptly has a knife pulled him for his efforts....thankfully he avoided injury as the bad guy fled (armed) through the building. He eventualy ran outside and mugged a family in the parking structure next door. So thankfully it was not me that ran into the guy, thankfully no one was hurt, but i can't help but think that with CC, someone could have drawn (after the knife was pulled) and held that guy in place for police/security.....as it is now the guy is still on the loose.... My wife wonders why i carry at least one knife at all times......this is why.....you just never know when you are going to need to defend yourself....or open a box..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) I am a firm believer in bringing a gun to a knife fight. Knives can be messy, .45 less so. Perhaps a CCW state is in your future. 1911 http://www.petitiononline.com/CCWI/petition.html Petition for Concealed Carry in Wisconsin Edited January 18, 2008 by 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stokstad 4 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Where in Wisconsin do you live? Everytime the CC bill goes in for a vote it does very well but doesnt seem to pass. I think the last time it went to vote it needed only like one more vote and we had a conservative rep. flip flop and vote the other way. Way too mant damn liberals around the area I live. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Where in Wisconsin do you live? Everytime the CC bill goes in for a vote it does very well but doesnt seem to pass. I think the last time it went to vote it needed only like one more vote and we had a conservative rep. flip flop and vote the other way. Way too mant damn liberals around the area I live. I work in Milwaukee, live in the burbs. I agree i would love to have CCW in WI, but it keeps failing with our lib dem governor.....dang it! regardless i would not be able to carry at work....company policy forbids weapons on grounds.....CRKT folder is as far as i wish to test that policy...i like my job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Threecard 15 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Even in a CCW state, you're sometimes curtailed on when and how you can carry. Do you think yoru employer would allow it? Some don't. I know a little about using a knife, but would in NO way be considered a knife fighter. An acquaintance of mine who is once told me that one of the basic tenets he was taught is if you get into a knife fight, no matter how good you are, you WILL get cut. The key is to menally accept this and train to not get cut in a vital area, accepting "minor" cuts. You have to do whatever it takes to defend yourself, but man it would be a whole lot better to be wearing a pistol than carrying a knife. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Threecard 15 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Where in Wisconsin do you live? Everytime the CC bill goes in for a vote it does very well but doesnt seem to pass. I think the last time it went to vote it needed only like one more vote and we had a conservative rep. flip flop and vote the other way. Way too mant damn liberals around the area I live. I work in Milwaukee, live in the burbs. I agree i would love to have CCW in WI, but it keeps failing with our lib dem governor.....dang it! regardless i would not be able to carry at work....company policy forbids weapons on grounds.....CRKT folder is as far as i wish to test that policy...i like my job! whups, must have been typing at the same time... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Hell, here in "the gunshine state" Florida, you need a permit to carry a knife, even. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I would have hosed the dude down (for spite) with any handily available fire extinguisher. Maybe you can claim "mental anguish" and sue that damn Dem Governor? Can't be any more legally outrageous than when a city bus in Philly has an accident and they carry more "injured" off it than the bus is originally designed to carry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Well I'm glad you weren't knifed at work! Insofar as carrying at work when it's against policy, I've wondered how I would handle that. It's not an issue right now, I own the company. But in the past I have worked for others. One one hand you work for them and they get to make the rules, on the other hand we are talking about my personal safety which they will not/cannot guarantee. With workplace shootings being not exactly rare. I think I would carry and hope to hell I never got caught. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Be carefull. A person with a knife who is 21 feet away can injure an armed defender before they can stop them with their handgun. Usually the offender is much closer. (NRA Guide) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 You are correct. In training we did a drill where 1 person was facing a target with a weapon in ready to fire condition, while a 2nd person stood facing the opposite direction with their hand on the shoulder of the armed person. When they were ready the armed person shouted "stop or I'll shoot" and fired two rounds. As soon as the the person with the hand on their shoulder heard them start to speak they took off, when they heard the second shot they stopped. It measured 20 feet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6x6pinz 4 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Don't see myself moving to WI in the near future. They don't even allow us to register our military vehicles in that state. I thought California was bad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MaineMarshal 0 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Regarding the 20/21 foot distance... the old film "Surviving Edged Weapons" used to demonstrate that clearly although some more recent studies have shown a distance of up to 30 feet can still result in a stabbing before you can draw and fire. One LE agency here performed their own in house testing of that theory and also managed a 30 foot distance. Knives are scary and messy but they are usually less lethal than a gun shot. You can sustain many slash cuts to most areas of your body and still continue to fight, defend yourself and survive. Deep punctures are a different matter. A gun shot tends to deliver a much more forceful and traumatic energy blast to your body depending on the ammo used and the point of impact. There are of course too many variables to make any of these statements absolute. Training, experience, physical condition, distractions, the weather, the type of clothing worn, etc, etc can easily make a difference one way or another. The best anyone can do is to repeatedly practice scenarios over and over and over again. Learn more than just to hit your target. Teach yourself to safely and effectively draw and acquire your target. Do this with a target that is not necessarily right in front of you. Use different, even awkward angles. Do it while you are moving as well as stationary. Try doing this around your home when you have nothing to do. If you ever need to defend your home you should train to do just that. In law enforcement there is a saying that you should train as you work. That philosophy is universal. Train in the manner that you will need to perform. Your practice should simulate your real life as closely as possible without compromising safety. Many law enforcement officers that train on the range regularly are expert performers drawing from a holster on their duty belt and nailing their target. However if you swap that duty holster out with a shoulder holster or inside the belt holster that can create a significantly different situation. The mechanics are different, the muscle movements have changed and so the muscle memory you had drilled into your system is not as effective as it was. That is unless you have trained using those same techniques and equipment. I don't want to get too far off topic here but these are important aspects of responsible and effective concealed carry in the "real world". It certainly sounds like some of you live in states where the right to defend yourself and others is not very important to your local government. That has got to suck. Maine Marshal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Threecard 15 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Regarding the 20/21 foot distance... the old film "Surviving Edged Weapons" used to demonstrate that clearly although some more recent studies have shown a distance of up to 30 feet can still result in a stabbing before you can draw and fire. One LE agency here performed their own in house testing of that theory and also managed a 30 foot distance. Knives are scary and messy but they are usually less lethal than a gun shot. You can sustain many slash cuts to most areas of your body and still continue to fight, defend yourself and survive. Deep punctures are a different matter. A gun shot tends to deliver a much more forceful and traumatic energy blast to your body depending on the ammo used and the point of impact. There are of course too many variables to make any of these statements absolute. Training, experience, physical condition, distractions, the weather, the type of clothing worn, etc, etc can easily make a difference one way or another. The best anyone can do is to repeatedly practice scenarios over and over and over again. Learn more than just to hit your target. Teach yourself to safely and effectively draw and acquire your target. Do this with a target that is not necessarily right in front of you. Use different, even awkward angles. Do it while you are moving as well as stationary. Try doing this around your home when you have nothing to do. If you ever need to defend your home you should train to do just that. In law enforcement there is a saying that you should train as you work. That philosophy is universal. Train in the manner that you will need to perform. Your practice should simulate your real life as closely as possible without compromising safety. Many law enforcement officers that train on the range regularly are expert performers drawing from a holster on their duty belt and nailing their target. However if you swap that duty holster out with a shoulder holster or inside the belt holster that can create a significantly different situation. The mechanics are different, the muscle movements have changed and so the muscle memory you had drilled into your system is not as effective as it was. That is unless you have trained using those same techniques and equipment. I don't want to get too far off topic here but these are important aspects of responsible and effective concealed carry in the "real world". It certainly sounds like some of you live in states where the right to defend yourself and others is not very important to your local government. That has got to suck. Maine Marshal Train like you fight--mix it up some--from different positions. I couldn't agree more. Even though it has some inherent faults, I think that's why IDPA is a good training tool. I've heard there is film out there (haven't seen it myself) of a State Trooper drawing his weapon and firing on a suspect. He fires two rounds, scoring hits, and promptly holsters his weapon--just like his training from the range--and is then gunned down by the suspect who still has some fight in him. It's entirely possible this is urban legend, but law enforcement types have told me it's true. I can certainly see how it could happen. Maybe that's why "shoot to stop", transferring from center mass to the brain box, has become more popular. Changing what you carry and where has proven to be a problem for some as well. If you're used to having a weapon on your hip and only practice that way, you're likely to reach for it there if surprised in the real world, only to find that today you elected to use an SOB or shoulder holster. Complacency at the range can kill almost as easily as complacency out in the world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I now have 1 more reason to thank THE GOOD LORD for where I live, BELOW the Mason Dixon. I keep AT LEAST 1 hand gun on my person while at work, at least 1 hand gun in my tool box and sometimes, you may even find 2-3 long guns laying around in my office. My "boss" doesn't mind at all, she brings me lunch and a kiss every day, and it's funny, the business' on either side of mine, don't seem to mind at all, at times, they'll come over at lunch and help clean them, because after all, there have been times that they came up to our house and helped dirty them up. Didn't mean to rub salt in your wound, but where you live is just plain F--ked UP. I can understand a company not allowing employees to not carry, but if that be the case, they should also provide PROPER protection, if they don't, I'd "urge" them to, but if he had a knife, I'd have a machete. Hey, it ain't a firearm, unless there's flames coming off your shoulder. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Thanks for all the comments guys 1) yes it sucks having no CCW...but again my work policy forbids it as well.....even if it was allowed by the state, it would not be permitted at work....so be it...i would carry elsewhere. 2) no i really don't want to get into knife fight, but much rather have the knife than nothing at all to defend myself. 3) Should i need it, i know that i can draw my CRKT folder in about half a second....again hope to never need it, but with that and my messenger bag which i almost always have as a shield i think i could get out of a knife fight with my life and some stitches.... 4) the other point is awareness.....what the hell was the person thinking who let him in?......i'm gonna have to follow up with my boss on this one (he runs the show in that building - he filled me in on the details this AM).....hoping that the person who let him in gets some severe reprimands....possibly fired later Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Threecard 15 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Thanks for all the comments guys 1) yes it sucks having no CCW...but again my work policy forbids it as well.....even if it was allowed by the state, it would not be permitted at work....so be it...i would carry elsewhere. 2) no i really don't want to get into knife fight, but much rather have the knife than nothing at all to defend myself. 3) Should i need it, i know that i can draw my CRKT folder in about half a second....again hope to never need it, but with that and my messenger bag which i almost always have as a shield i think i could get out of a knife fight with my life and some stitches.... 4) the other point is awareness.....what the hell was the person thinking who let him in?......i'm gonna have to follow up with my boss on this one (he runs the show in that building - he filled me in on the details this AM).....hoping that the person who let him in gets some severe reprimands....possibly fired later 1) yep, but we're all one step away from being in your shoes. NRA my friends, NRA. 2) a knife is definitely better than nothing. Have you gotten/thought about getting training with it? 3) using what you have available...very cool 4) awareness is everything...this dude was definitely out to lunch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Hello Here in Texas, our Governor is pushing a bill through the legislative maze to require employers to recognize employees' right to carry to/from work. As long as the parking lot is "seperated" from the physical workplace, A licensed (CHL holder) could keep their weapon in their vehicle while at work. Last I heard, the bill was sailing through... Heck, I work for a refiner in Houston. Seems pretty stupid that there is not a firearm allowed in or around any refineries or chemical plants here in Energy Central.... I'm thinking the AK47 pistol would be just the ticket for a "concealed" truck-gun in the plant...... guido2 in Houston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.