WTS: New Production Saiga-12 5rd Mags - IN STOCK

[aubie515 2]

I found that out when I called them this afternoon. The OP was a bit misleading to me because it said the mags were affordable and did not mention a "promotional period." Oh well, I don't need them anyway...and they don't seem to be worth $20 per mag, IMO.

[Navy87Guy 1]

The discount pricing has been discontinued, as it was a special introductory price to get a few out there.

 

I did a writeup on them earlier today, and tried also to answer some of the questions there, that I have the answers to:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23028&hl=

 

Would have been nice if they had updated this thread or let people know it was a limited time offer.

 

It's not the money as much as the principle....

 

Jim

[robb 0]

I was ready to buy a bunch, but like you guys when I went to the site and found out the discount no longer worked, I changed my mind too. The original post really should have expressed that it was a limited time offer.

 

I probably didnt need that many mags anyway. maybe they saved me from myself ? haha

[Garys4598 1,065]

Would have been nice if they had updated this thread or let people know it was a limited time offer.

 

It's not the money as much as the principle....

 

Jim

Personally, I think it would have been nice had they come back into the thread and answered a few of the pertinent questions. Such as... "Why not 8 round magazines???!!!!" As Cobra76two had inquired.

 

 

But nooooooooooooo. No one cared that the dude representing KeepShooting.com simply didn't come back. Nope.

 

Everyone was too damned busy circle-jerking all over this thread to pay any notice.

 

 

Just my friggen opinion. (So bite me anyone if you don't like it.)

Edited February 14, 2008 by Gary

[aubie515 2]

I agree that if someone is on this forum selling their products...that the least they can do is answer our questions. After all, we are their customers.

 

The other night I was tempted in ordering a few mags, but I wanted to wait to hear from folks that bought their mags. I don't like having to beta test products...especially from a company that came out of nowhere and started to advertise.

 

I feel that they were dishonest from the get go...there was no mention of a promotional period and how many mags would be included in the promotion. I even read the info on their website and there was no mention of a price increase. If it goes over $20 per mag...how much of a deal are "we" getting compared to buying factory Saiga mags?

 

Sorry for venting, but I'm not impressed with the conduct of this company. One final shot...their website looks like it was designed by a 4th grade class for a computer project.

[6x6pinz 4]

I was brave enough to try a new product. I am happy that I did and even got a pretty good deal. The people who are willing to take chances sometimes get good deals while other times they get screwed. It is just a matter of being willing to gamble once in a while. I am sorry to see that people who did not want to take a chance are upset by the price increase but that is what is to be expected I guess. What is everyone going to say when they see the new prices of the drum mags? I am still waiting for my "beta" version and yes I would prefer the 3" model but I am willing to gamble that the drums are going to be great and so I ordered them in advance without any board member testing other than those who will profit from it. I see it as those who complain about those who play the lottery. They complain when someone wins while they never buy a ticket. Sometimes you just have to step up and roll the dice.

Just my 2 cents worth so in the words of another member "(So bite me anyone if you don't like it.)"

[Navy87Guy 1]

What is everyone going to say when they see the new prices of the drum mags?

 

One big difference - MD has been stating from the outset that there were a limited number of advance order drums with the discounted price. Mike even kept people up to date with how many were left to order.

 

Congrats to the risk takers - glad it worked out. Unfortunately Keepshooting has probably lost out on a lot of sales because of their poor communication. If they had advertised an end date or limited quantity, more people probably would have ordered. Some of them probably still will, but I would predict it will be a lower number than if they had just told us straight-up what the deal was.

 

It's not fatal - just disappointing.

 

Jim

[6x6pinz 4]

What is everyone going to say when they see the new prices of the drum mags?

 

One big difference - MD has been stating from the outset that there were a limited number of advance order drums with the discounted price. Mike even kept people up to date with how many were left to order.

 

Congrats to the risk takers - glad it worked out. Unfortunately Keepshooting has probably lost out on a lot of sales because of their poor communication. If they had advertised an end date or limited quantity, more people probably would have ordered. Some of them probably still will, but I would predict it will be a lower number than if they had just told us straight-up what the deal was.

 

It's not fatal - just disappointing.

 

Jim

 

 

no doubt better coms would help but it is after all, as near as I can tell, their first attempt at selling items to the Saiga.com board. I would hope they review this forum, they stated they don't frequent it, and learn form it. Would be nice to see some alternative 410 mags, from any source.

[Navy87Guy 1]

Just read in another thread here that the operator told one person ordering that there's another price increase coming "any day now" - above the $19.95 per mag.

 

That sound you hear is the whistle of a falling reputation (already)....

 

Jim

[ready2go 0]

Keepshooting will not even do any bulk discounts with 20+ ordered. What losers rather have the ten rounders for that price.

[keepshooting.com 0]

Hello Guys!!

 

Just to respond to some concerns here--

 

If anyone thought that we would continue to sell magazines for $14.95/each, I'm sorry that this wasn't made clear. When any new product is brought to market, there is always some hesitation and resistance in the mind of the consumer. Does this product work? Is there value in the price? You would be a fool to trust anyone who has a financial interest in promoting a product who "says" it works. The easiest way to get past this hurdle is to get the new product into the hands of the consumer quickly, and the best way to do this is to offer it at a price that is too good to pass by. We have done this with everything from Thompson drums, to new M3 Grease Gun Magazines. Those that take the "chance" with us have always won, those that don't are upset that they did not buy when we first introduced a product.

 

I continue to read comparisons in this thread with regard to second generation prices on drums versus the folks that pre-bought. Everyone who pre-bought drums has taken on some risk that is inherent in projects like this, and they will benefit from the reduced price they will pay. Everyone had an opportunity to take a chance on a $14.95 mag, and many did. Those that took the chance have a high quality magazine at a reduced price. Our goal of getting the magazines into the hands of early adopters has been successful, and we have had calls from many people looking to buy them both for resale and for their own use. We owe no one any special favors or deals who did not jump on the $14.95/each price. This is the nature of business. The next time we do something like this, we'll make it clear that the intro price is exactly that, an intro price.

 

As to what items are priced at, this is something that is complicated for any business. What is the value in a high quality after market 5rd magazine? The value is exactly what the market will buy them at. From the inquiries that we have gotten from companies looking for 1000+ magazine purchases, we have been told that we are not selling these magazines for what they are worth. Are they right? Perhaps. Are we working with dealers to get a reasonable number of magazines sold? You bet. Will that require prices to change from time-to-time? Most likely. Remember, this is capitalism.

 

Now what does that mean for the consumer? It means that you are likely to see more high quality reasonably priced parts for your gun. Parts that are either unavailable to the consumer or priced out of the consumers buying power will suddenly become available again. We have a long history of bringing things like this to market, such as factory copies of P-64 magazines, Thompson 50rd drum magazines that work, Copies of M3 Grease gun magazines, and many others that are either "in-progress" or are in the planning stages. We like working with the gun community on things like this, but could easily just work with distributors to lessen the "drama" when it comes to things like this.

 

 

To address a few specifics:

 

Future pricing:

 

Those wishing to purchase small quantity of magazines, you will be able to buy them for $19.95/each on our website until they have been sold out completely. Single magazine purchases will likely go to $24.95/each very soon to support the roll out of dealer price plans. This still gives the consumer who only wants 1 magazine a $15 savings over the cheapest price we could find for new factory magazines at the retail level. Those that want more than 1 magazine will be able to get them $20 cheaper than the lowest price on a factory magazine. (we found armsofamerica.com as the cheapest retail outlet with them in stock). We can only control prices on our website, so if one dealer buys out our inventory, you're likely going to see them sell for much more than they are now.

 

 

Ready2go: If you want to purchase 1000+ mags, we'll be happy to work with you. We've instructed phone sales not to offer any discounts on magazines as we are rolling out a dealer package. Many people have bought more than 20 magazines at the $19.95/rate without blinking.

 

Navy87Guy: We have a long history and a reputation of bring products that work to market. When we have items available for the first time, we always offer them at a price to get them into the hands of shooters. This community is a little bit "closer" than most, and some people are taking business too personally. Like any business, we will never make everyone happy. Reputation we have is strong, and that is something that is measured by repeat business and sales numbers each month.

 

6x6pinz: You are correct, you took a chance, and you benefit from your risk. Not just with your purchase of our magazines, but with your deposit on a drum. You are not alone.

 

aubie515: We did not come out of nowhere. We are just new to this forum. We have been doing this since early 2002. How much of a deal are you getting on the after market mags? Well, here is what we pay wholesale through RSR Group for factory magazines: RAA SAIGA MAGAZINE 5RD FOR 12GA 3" $34.13. The market can decide what kind of a deal they are getting. Most dealers (not distributors) have to price their factory magazines higher than that, or they won't make any money at all on selling the factory mags. As to our website, we do in excess of $1,000,000 through it each year and have done so since 2006. We have #1 ranking for most of our products in Google. So the design serves its purpose, it generates a large cash flow. Ecommerce 101: Flashy design = no profits.

 

gary: We've answered the 8rd magazine question many times, just not in this thread. If we can get factory 8rd samples, we would be willing to have them made. We had 5rd magazines made due to the sample factory magazines being available. There was also consideration as to the differences between spending the money to have an 8rd magazine made when there were already 10rd magazines available. We did not think there would be any interest, we were wrong.

 

I hope that helps!

 

-Brian

[Garys4598 1,065]

gary: We've answered the 8rd magazine question many times, just not in this thread. If we can get factory 8rd samples, we would be willing to have them made. We had 5rd magazines made due to the sample factory magazines being available. There was also consideration as to the differences between spending the money to have an 8rd magazine made when there were already 10rd magazines available. We did not think there would be any interest, we were wrong.

 

I hope that helps!

 

-Brian

Thank you Brian for getting back with us!

 

Boy.... now didn't I eat crow??!!!! .... .... ........

 

This is just one person's opinion (namely my own).... but I think to have gone the route of manufacturing the 8 rnd mag and the 2 rnd mag would have been the most valuable course, for both you as a supplier and we, the consumer and user. Call me stupid... but that's my opinion. Absolutely, the 10 rndr need has been taken care of my other makers. Interestingly though, you decided to go with the cotton pick'n most prolific and arguably easiest Saiga-12 magazine to obtain, that being the 5 rnd.

 

YES, I know you just stated that "If we could have gotten factory 8rd samples, we would have been willing to have them made." Still.... something doesn't add....

 

 

 

Anyway, thanks for getting back with us.

[Navy87Guy 1]

Navy87Guy: We have a long history and a reputation of bring products that work to market. When we have items available for the first time, we always offer them at a price to get them into the hands of shooters. This community is a little bit "closer" than most, and some people are taking business too personally. Like any business, we will never make everyone happy. Reputation we have is strong, and that is something that is measured by repeat business and sales numbers each month.

 

Brian -

 

I appreciate the detailed response.

 

However, if you have indeed been doing this for 6 years then it's even more baffling to me that your roll out campaign was so poorly executed from the customer perspective. Even one mention of "limited time offer" would have been sufficient to set the proper expectations - then caveat emptor. I'm not taking it personally - I just consider it poor practice. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the issue. It's your business to run as you choose, and obviously it's been successful so far. I'd just offer that you might want to consider the old "one chance at a good first impression" chestnut in the future - especially when you're breaking into new markets where your past accomplishments are unknown.

 

I appreciate your efforts to bring a quality product onto the market and I wish you good luck.

 

Jim

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Keeponshooting.com I think I like you guys. Keep on keepin' on.

1911

Edited February 16, 2008 by 1911

[aubie515 2]

Brain,

 

thank you for explaining to us how business works. Here I thought all of those business courses I took in college was a waste of time.

 

My comment about your company coming out of nowhere came from the fact that your first post was to push your new mags. I'd say that is coming out of nowhere.

 

Since you were so kind as to explain how your business is ran, I will return the favor.

 

1) If you are going to introduce a product that caters to Saiga users...perhaps you should develope a relationship with the members of the forum. After all, you will find more customers who will actually purchase your products than any other online location.

 

2) Learn how to communicate with your intended consumers and tell them in detail about an intro price. That includes how many mags are available at X cost, how long the intro price will last.

 

Starting a thread and saying how great your mags are one minute, and the next minute telling us you don't check this forum...does not give me the impression that you care what the members on this forum thinks.

 

It seems like you are in it to make a profit and that's it...which is fine with me...just don't act as if you are the only person that knows how to "run" a business.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

DayUm! I guess Tony, Dinzag, Mike, Will, and many others are here to make friends and not profit. Glad to finally understand.

1911

[gtnichols 51]

Well I don't really like a price hike.

 

But I have to say I have purchased from Keep shooting before.

I have been happy with my purchases and the price I paid.

 

I do have to say recently I found this sweet Azz 1957 sweedish Bayonet that's stainless steel!!

and it was less than $20 so I bought one and received it, and it is really cool!!

 

http://www.keepshooting.com/productimages/..._bayonetbig.jpg

 

It is Awsome cool,. after I got it, I noticed the price went up a little to 22.95, I guess because there is less left and someone (like me) showed interest

Mine did not come with the cheap plastic belt holder adapter, I guess it might be original, who knows,..

 

Anyway what were we talking about anyway?? Business practice?

Buy Low ,...sell high.

 

Nobody tell Jake though,...

I still can't believe that Mod deal ,.....

[TWGLADF 0]

i'd rather pay the extra money for a factory mag now that the price is up to $25!

 

only one word describes this action. GOUGING. MIGHT AS WELL GET AS MUCH FOR EM AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. HEY THESE THINGS ARE SELLING REALLY GOOD. LETS JACK THE PRICE UP ON EM.

 

hopefully this has a reverse back fire effect and halts sales tremendously. they've seemed to have forgotten that the consumer controls the market. well, with the exception of fuel that is.

[TWGLADF 0]

here guys. less than $10 more per mag and they are factory. no worrying about quality 1000+ rounds down the road! YOU KNOW THESE WILL HOLD UP! this is where my money is going.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...21363&st=30

 

THANKS KEEPSHOOTING FOR CONVINCING ME TO STICK WITH THE REAL DEAL!

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

One of the reasons why everyone is pissed is because by the time we found out that they are not 922r Compliant, the price went up.

 

I was contemplating on it, but wanted to find out more information on where they were made. I searched KeepShooting's website and the extensive initial posts and found nothing about where they were manufactured.

 

I am a cautious buyer and I missed out because of my questions and lack of knowledge.

 

However, I recall the post (from Keepshooting under a different name, I assume) months and months ago teasing us about a large buy of 5 rounders and 8 rounders and the response from this forum was enormous (mostly for the 8 rounders). We were left high and dry for months without any followup or progress and then suddenly these "came out of nowhere". I recall that post being resurrected multiple times as people would keep calling KeepShooting for updates with no news.

 

God bless the capitalist system, but a big part of it is customer service and reputation (in this country). If you have great products, but don't keep your customers in the loop or treat them poorly, then the retention of those customers will severely diminish. Keeping a customer is much cheaper than obtaining new ones.

 

If the threads responding to our questions had come sooner, and had they let it known that pricing was introductory, KeepShooting would have probably sold an extra couple hundred magazines here (money in hand!). I am going to see if Saiga-12.com lists them similar to the AGP mags to keep the profit here in the forum. Until then, I am probably not going to order any! It's like the Nike Swoosh, I am willing to pay an extra 10 bucks for the logo, reputation prior experience.

 

If there are indeed 10,000 of these mags out there, I doubt seriously that even at $20 each that they are going to be sold out anytime soon (since each member of our forum would have to buy one). The capitalist principle of long term costs of warehousing and marketing sitting inventory for an extended period of time may eventually drop the price back down (to $15 each or whatever the market will yield) if there are in fact 10,000 pieces. That is why capitalism is beautiful!

Edited February 21, 2008 by BuffetDestroyer

[aubie515 2]

Oh didn't you guys read the post from Keepshooting? They had the nerve to explain to us poor uneducated folks how business operates....truth be told...that's how to lose customers.

 

I'm not upset that I "missed" out on the $14.95 price...I'm annoyed that the person from KeepShooting started this thread and didn't bother explaining the details. The person that represented KeepShooting needs to learn better communication skills if he/she wants to establish good relationship with their customers.

 

I feel that is a poor way to start out with trying to sell a new product. I don't mind spending money on my hobby/passion, but I'm certainly not going to place a huge order on untested mags...no matter what price was being offered.

 

I for one will not buy from this company based on their tactics. Sure, I will pay a little more for factory mags, but I know I won't get a bogus price increase. Greed will only get you so far KeepShooting.

 

So I say Keeping moving...as in find another customer because you lost my business.

 

PS...when will you folks upgrade your website...one of the worst websites that I have ever visited. Are you jacking up mag prices, so you can pay a professional to design a new website?

[glockpopper 0]

Hey Guys,

 

Awhile back we were trying to negotiate a large purchase of Saiga-12 magazines from an exporter in Europe. Due to a number of reasons, namely the value of the dollar, this became not a practical option for us. I can fully understand and appreciate why the wholesale cost of a 5rd magazine is over $30 now.

 

What we decided to do was have our own magazines produced and we are finally ready to start to sell them! They function and look just as good as the factory originals with the only thing missing being the IZHMASH trademarked logo. While we were designing this magazine we tested it in multiple Saiga-12s all in factory standard configurations. Performance matches the factory originals in every way!

 

We had to commit to having 10,000 made to get them for a good price and have the first shipment of magazines available for sale. They are absolutely BEAUTIFUL magazines, and fit and function is 100%.

 

We are pricing these in a way that everyone can afford to stock up! Here is the break down:

 

1-2 mags @ $19.95/each

3+ mags @ $14.95/each

 

Yes, you can get a high quality magazine that matches the factory 5rd magazines for as little as $14.95! We are going to try and sell as many of these to the public before we accept any orders from wholesalers/distributors. So now is the time to buy!

 

Please see our website for pictures and videos of these magazines:

 

Visit our Site to See Product Pictures and Purchase

 

We take all forms of credit cards for payment at no additional charge to you. You can also order over the phone toll-free at 800-570-8239. We do not check this forum often, so best method of communication is to email or call.

 

 

Here's a pic:

 

 

 

ps: We subscribed to the forum, not sure how to see if we're in the Contributors group yet. But moderators can see the payment in our control panel.

Last week i got my 3 saiga 12 5 round mags one mag easily takes the 5 rds mag#2

real hard to load 5 rounds mag#3 can only load 4 rds.

Please reply soon at glocker@satx.rr.com

Thanks

Ralph

[Bvamp 604]

that is very strange. I am sure they will swap one out with your mag, if you ask? I did not encounter discrepancies like this with the trial mags I recieved. Mine were blind-chosen out of the batch, and came fully packaged, as imported.

[ready2go 0]

Good luck getting a reply from in here, I believe they are too afraid, since their "price increase" I'm sure they are too busy filling orders of people rushiing out to buy mags. Maybe their customer service is better over the phone. Make sure you get it in writing, Oh yeah I forgot they dont put things in writing thet just spring it on you.

[fuct 0]

so true

Edited February 24, 2008 by 666