Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) I thought I would take a few minutes to take a good look at the new Saiga12 five round magazines from keepshooting.com, and share what I think about them with you all... Firstly, the design of the new mags is fairly straight forward. The floorplate design has been changed (to avoid any legal problems, I was told), and the mag is smooth, and thus, shiny. Otherwise, it is nearly identical to the factory magazines. Overall, they seem to function just the same as factory mags do. It wont help your US parts count, however, as it is made in Taiwan. I received the mags each seperatly packaged in clear plastic, with proper paper import labels in the bags. The mags were each in a small bag, then in a more durable heat sealed plastic, so should have a very long shelf life for dealers to stock them, and retain mint condition of the parts. Some specifics as to what I looked at with this new product : ---tested tensile strength of steep mag lips. Seem to be identical to factory, or at least nearly identical. I took one and bent it back and forth quite a few times before it broke, which is very good. I also tested the mounting of the lips, which is the same as the factory part, by inserting a single round, and forcing it all the way down in the mag with a small dowel and releasing it fifteen times. The lips did not come loose or show any problems. I know this was a concern with the AGP mags when they first released them, but this isnt an issue with this mag. ---tested spring in several ways. It measures out to nearly the same length as the factory part does. I squashed it flat (overcompressed it) for one hour, and reinserted it into the mag. held small level on it and on factory mag, spring tension was the same after overcompressing the spring. ---tested follower for fit. It freely slides in the magazine body without pressure on it to move it, only by tipping the mag without a spring in it. ---tested mag body for fit and function. This mag is patterned after the generation 2 factory magazines. It fits snugly, and as usual, I am sure that (just like factory mags) that they might need to be adjusted to clip into some people's guns. In my gun, mags all clipped into place and clipped in a little easier after a couple of insertions. This is a good thing, if you ask me. ---tested feed reliability. Mag performs identical to factory part, I had zero issues with feeding, cycled the action by hand for about 200 rounds, went out and fired enough rounds to determine that feed issues should not occur. ---for the next two tests, I cut a mag into evenly sized pieces with a chop saw, one inch wide sections of the mag body. ----tested plastic for temperature failure at normal temperatures. -----My freezer is set to about zero degrees F, put part of a mag into freezer overnight. broke about the same as room temperature piece. Unless you are in the arctic circle and expose this mag to -40F temperatures, I dont think you will have a problem. -----Set toaster oven to 130 degrees. Let plastic warm up for about ten minutes. Compared to room temperature piece, again, broke almost identical to room temp part. I dont think it will be an issue for those of you that live in hotter areas, such as southern Arizona, Nevada, etc. ---Lastly, I did some drop testing. Dropped mag fully loaded on concrete from normal height it would fall from (shoulder height). Five drops, part looked ok. I then took the same mag, unloaded it, and beat it straight on the corner of the floorplate. By the time it failed, I had hit it a bunch of times, with greater force each time, and when it finally cracked, I was at about the same amount of force as a jabbed punch. OVERALL - I think this is a pretty good mag for the money. Its basically that simple. Edited February 12, 2008 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nico Cujo 1 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Sounds like your barrage of testing put any doubters at bay. Thanx for taking the time and $$ to do that for the guys here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Sounds like your barrage of testing put any doubters at bay. Thanx for taking the time and $$ to do that for the guys here. +1 Thanks bvamp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 so pardon my lack of knowing...but are these available now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Good job Ben! I appreciate your effort and report. Turns out you were serious when you said you would destroy things to test them. Well done and enlightening. 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KINGFISH 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I appreciate the tests. Sounds like you have covered every angle. Who actually manufactures these mags and why did they feel compelled to make a 5rd as opposed to a 2, 8, 10, etc.? The guns already come with a 5rd and these new do not help with the parts count. Did they go through all this trouble just to save us a few bucks? If so, I wish they would re-create the Russian 2rd and 8rd!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmacken37 4 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Thanks for the nice review! I'm not bothered by the mags being made abroad as I'd rather not rely on mags for my parts counts. Jake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GearHeadFTW 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 What Keepshooting said over at WT To answer your questions: I am not aware of a law preventing Russian magazines from coming into the US. Is this a copyrights thing, or has something changed. There is no law preventing Russian made magazines from being imported. Where the legal issues with customs would be if the reproduction 5rd magazines were made with the IZHMASH logo on it. They would not be legal to import as they would be infringing on IZHMASH trademark rights. Do you have any ideas on how to keep this from happening. I admit that I occasionally drop one too I have to say I am not really able to offer much input here. Based on our experience during the proto-type design phase, the feedlips effect much more than just how tight the shells are held into place. When we first received proto-types, the feedlips were a bit larger than the factory magazine and had more tension. This made the magazines "tight" during rock-and-lock loading, which we felt was a major draw back. So the end design was to copy the factory feedlips as closely as possible. Brian, do you think the same can be done with the Izhmash 8 round magazines? The 5 rounders are nice and easy to handle, but the existing US made ten rounders are like trying to load a WW2 walkie talkie into the gun. I think an 8 round magazine would be a big seller and I for one would order several for my own use. The first thing that would need to happen is we would need to sell enough of the 5rd magazines to free up the capital that it would require to have the 8rd magazines contracted. We financed this project ourselves, so financial responsibility dictates we sell enough of the 5rds before contracting any 8rds. As to whether or not it could be done the answer to that is absolutely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 so pardon my lack of knowing...but are these available now? We may carry them soon in the E-store here. The maker is running over the numbers this week, and they should be availible one way or another soon after that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I appreciate the tests. Sounds like you have covered every angle. Who actually manufactures these mags and why did they feel compelled to make a 5rd as opposed to a 2, 8, 10, etc.? The guns already come with a 5rd and these new do not help with the parts count. Did they go through all this trouble just to save us a few bucks? If so, I wish they would re-create the Russian 2rd and 8rd!! The main reason(s) were posted above, from Brian himself. Brian further commented to me that in order to make the 2 or 8 rounders, they need to send away X number of them to be destroyed and copied by the manufacturer, who is located in a country where they are unable to test the mags in a gun, due to civilians being unable to possess firearms there, in Taiwan. To send them, they need to find enough of them to buy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 lol Ben! You are quite the torture-tester! Glad to hear it's a good product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Good job Ben! I appreciate your effort and report. Turns out you were serious when you said you would destroy things to test them. Well done and enlightening.1911 Well, thats how you test things I thought? (I dont play games when it comes to the Saiga12. I would load shells to make it fail as well, but I think Ive tested the gun enough over the years and shared of of the details with you all to be suitable, however.) These mags are NEARLY as durable as the factory mags, I should make clear. They are not some two dollar china copies, but after repeated tossing on rocks or concrete (like you competition guys like to do), you may have an issue here and there. They are not mil-spec parts, but are NOT crap either, is what Im saying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 lol Ben! You are quite the torture-tester! Glad to hear it's a good product. Bob - If I had a laser thermometer, I would have tested them with a barbeque and liquid nitrogen to get the temperature of plastic failure. THAT I might charge somebody to do, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
car15man 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Have we lost the quantity discount on these?..I went to the website to order 5 of them, and at checkout, it would not ring up at the $14.95 discount price for 3+..I cancelled my order..Anyone have info on this..... lol Ben! You are quite the torture-tester! Glad to hear it's a good product. Bob - If I had a laser thermometer, I would have tested them with a barbeque and liquid nitrogen to get the temperature of plastic failure. THAT I might charge somebody to do, however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 that price was an intro price to get some of them out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aubie515 2 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Thanks for the review. I was waiting to hear from current owners before I placed my order. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well, I destroyed my couple, and am sending the boss here the last one, so I am no longer a current owner technically, that is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
car15man 0 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Does the new.... no discount price have anything to do with the fact they may be sold in the "e store" soon? that price was an intro price to get some of them out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) No. That pricing reflects the need to get some out into people's hands to look at and try in a short time. edit: I said above that we MAY carry them in the E-store. You can still get them at keepshooting.com obviously! Edited February 13, 2008 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
car15man 0 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I know vamp.....just kidding bro, my fault for not buying sooner....catch 22 though you know...I wanted to wait for some rock solid testing like yours...and by the time some came out..the price is up....Oh well...that's life No. That pricing reflects the need to get some out into people's hands to look at and try in a short time. edit: I said above that we MAY carry them in the E-store. You can still get them at keepshooting.com obviously! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well, I guess its all my fault, as usual (BVamp did it) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
car15man 0 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Yeah that's right...............lol...Why don't you just send me that last one of yours...Then I'll be happy...I just ordered 4 from the website....Can't wait to beat on them too... Well, I guess its all my fault, as usual (BVamp did it) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Thanks for the report BVAMP! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Yeah that's right...............lol...Why don't you just send me that last one of yours...Then I'll be happy...I just ordered 4 from the website....Can't wait to beat on them too... Well, I guess its all my fault, as usual (BVamp did it) I would send it to you, but its going to Makc for consideration purposes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the test BVAMP. I'm glad someone tested the magazines as I haven't been able to go to the range. I did order three of the magazines and Keepshooting.com sent them in two days. They look like the factory mags except for the ungrained surfaces and I only had to file a bit off the rear magazine catch to make it lock in the S-12. The reason the magazines were made in Taiwan was cost. I was able to get three magazines for the price of one Saiga mag. Edited February 13, 2008 by uzitiger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tshark 0 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Thank you very much for the review. I received mine today and while I have not tested or fired them yet I can contribute photos. As I received them Unwrapped What the inside looks like Baseplate Some Other views With Shells Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 thanks for the pictures! Mine would be much less interesting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6x6pinz 4 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I did not destroy my mags but they all fed really well in my s12. I am pleased that I managed to get them at a very reasonable price and a carry bag as well (thrown in by Keepshooting) when I bought 5. The only draw back I can see is they are not the two rounders I need for hunting here in AZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VA M11 0 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 OK so my quick review when I got them a couple days after keepshooting first got them/posted them for sale was NO where as complete as Bvamp's but on the basics I completely agree and I'm glad to see that the "torture" part of his testing confirms the basic overall impression that I got---they are a good, cheap substitute for the factory 5 rounders...A HUGE thanks to Bvamp though for the complete test of the product Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-308 2 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 you rock, thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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