Rustynuts 3 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Do most blue or parkerize before painting (after stripping the old finish)? Will the cold blue stuff work, or does it need to be hot? Don't even bother? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FALaholic 0 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Do most blue or parkerize before painting (after stripping the old finish)? Will the cold blue stuff work, or does it need to be hot? Don't even bother? I highly recommend bead blasting then pakerizing, and finally painting. This is an extremely tough finish because the paint has a really good base to "grab" onto. Hot blueing salts are very caustic and cost prohibitive. This is what most factories are setup on now. Cold blue IMO is good only spot treatment. YOu could conceivibly cold blue an entire weapon, but I dont think you would be pleased with the results....and yes warming the parts helps greatly. Old fashion rust blueing is good stuff. It is simply a controlled rust. I have used it on several pistol slides, and a Mauser conversion with great success. Note that this is a labor intensive process and will show any imperfections in the metal. You would not want to paint over the blueing for a number of reasons, but mainly because it would not stick! Back to the parkerize and paint, or just parkerizing. This process hides a multitude of sins, and is not overly difficult to do. Cost of setup is the biggest hangup. Metal is key to any refinishing project. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 If you can't park it, sandblast with white sand, dust/degrease, and spray with a modern coating like AlumahydeII, Duracoat, etc. I've done lots of stuff that way, and it's easy to match the look of parkerizing if that's the look you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rustynuts 3 Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 What's the procedure to Parkerize? I've never done it before. Is it a dip, brush, wipe-on, etc.? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Parking is a hot dip. I've never done it, but from what I've seen it's pretty straightforward. The Box O' Truth has a nice illustrated article on the process: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu52.htm. Also, I agree with the others in this thread that cold bluing is a bad idea for a whole gun. It will look spotty at best, and the finish is not durable at all. Cold bluing is really only good for touching up scratches and worn edges. Rust bluing, on the other hand, is quite durable. It is also really really labor intensive. It took me over a week's worth of endless wiping hanging and carding to do a 40" octagonal muzzleloader barrel. In the end it was worth it though: now my front-stuffer has a beautiful finish and matching XS ghost ring sights. A rust blued Kalashnikov would look weird, but hey it's your gun. Please post pics if you do it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FALaholic 0 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 The parkerizing or phosphate is an actual etching of the metal. It will not work (or works poorly) on alloys. Metals like aluminum will only frost over, and will not take the phosphate coat. Parkerizing really holds oil well, and is non-reflective. It really is Gods gift to military arms. At any rate my procedure is this: -Degrease with Lacquer thinner -Bead blast with aluminum oxide (Avoid using sand. Silicosis is a long drawn out way to die!) -Degrease again -Rinse in water *Watch for flash rusting--park will not take if its rusty* -Dip in Muratic Acid solution -Suspend in the 180 degree park solution -Coat with water displacing oil. I might have skipped some steps but that is the general gist of the process. The link that aresv posted is a great illustration, however I use a Maganese Phosphate vs. Zinc. Zinc tends to produce a light grey where the maganese tends to produce a darker charcoal to black. Patriot is right about the blasting. If you are going to paint it at least blast it. But if I had to pick between park and paint I choose park every time. Besides if you have parked it...its just one more step to paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Gunkote has a cold phosphate product I think I am going to try for an undercoat. These are also cold treatments for aluminum it's alloys that will bond to the metal and give the paint something to bite into too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rustynuts 3 Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks, might look into the Gunkote stuff. I'd rather not have to dip if possible. I may not re-do the barrel for now, just the receiver. The cold blue would only have been used as an undercoat to the moly resin. Would it make the moly look spotty? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) Interesting. I will don't cold blue for undercoat on anything. But what do I know. Edited March 8, 2008 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aubie515 2 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Gunkote has a cold phosphate product I think I am going to try for an undercoat. The product from KG is called K Phos. I have used it prior to refinishing....from a conversation I had with employees at KG is that K phos is typically used if you don't plan on refinishing the firearm right away. Say you blast the old finish off and you wanted to refinish a couple of days later...you spray it with the K phos to protect it from rust, until you refinish the part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 I am thinking of having a refinishing party! For all you local to the Atlanta area guys I have ordered a custom Park tank that should take most barreled actions. I will be trying to get up a list of guys that want to park their own firearms. That way we can all split the cost of the solution, equipment and materials. I also have access to a furnace for baking on a paint over finish and a sandblaster. And no you can not ship your firearm to me for me to do. This is not my line of work and I do not have an FFL. This is not a way for me to make money. The cost to do your firearm will be based on the actual cost of the materials and equipment. There should also be additional savings due to the economy of scale. Plus I hope that we all have a blast meeting each other and doing our own refinishing! If any are interested I will be putting together a list for future contact. Please let me know if you have any materials or equipment to add to the effort and how many firearms you intend to process. PM or EMail me your eMail address. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) Double-tap! Edited March 8, 2008 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) I am thinking of having a refinishing party! For all you local to the Atlanta area guys I have ordered a custom Park tank that should take most barreled actions. I will be trying to get up a list of guys that want to park their own firearms. That way we can all split the cost of the solution, equipment and materials. I also have access to a furnace for baking on a paint over finish and a sandblaster. And no you can not ship your firearm to me for me to do. This is not my line of work and I do not have an FFL. This is not a way for me to make money. The cost to do your firearm will be based on the actual cost of the materials and equipment. There should also be additional savings due to the economy of scale. Plus I hope that we all have a blast meeting each other and doing our own refinishing! If any are interested I will be putting together a list for future contact. Please let me know if you have any materials or equipment to add to the effort and how many firearms you intend to process. PM or EMail me your eMail address. Cool beans brother. Hey look into lauers zinc phos at Midway-USA concetrated one gallon good stuff and price is right. It will give you about 5 gallons with the water and about full 20 rifles or shotguns, Prob more butt you take your chances about the finish. Edited March 8, 2008 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 If any one goes K-phos apply it tin with air brush, is not a paint is phosphoric acid as main ingredient, do not apply it thick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kellysguy 1 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) Go here and read this. Now navigate the site through all of the parkerizing clickies and then check out the "moly" stuff. This is by far the most confusing stuff I've ever read. The guy doublespeaks through the whole thing. "8oz moly "whatever" kit, contains 1oz of moly "whatever" (sold seperately)." What the hell is that supposed to mean?!?!?!?!?!? Is it sold seperatly, or does it come in the kit ?!?!?!?!?!? His park kit seems nice, if I could undstand what the hell he is saying. This is what happens when you have a chem major trying to do an english major's job. The guy should run for office. http://www.shootersolutions.com/higdenchargr.htm Edited March 8, 2008 by kellysguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 (edited) I am thinking of having a refinishing party! For all you local to the Atlanta area guys I have ordered a custom Park tank that should take most barreled actions. I will be trying to get up a list of guys that want to park their own firearms. That way we can all split the cost of the solution, equipment and materials. I also have access to a furnace for baking on a paint over finish and a sandblaster. And no you can not ship your firearm to me for me to do. This is not my line of work and I do not have an FFL. This is not a way for me to make money. The cost to do your firearm will be based on the actual cost of the materials and equipment. There should also be additional savings due to the economy of scale. Plus I hope that we all have a blast meeting each other and doing our own refinishing! If any are interested I will be putting together a list for future contact. Please let me know if you have any materials or equipment to add to the effort and how many firearms you intend to process. PM or EMail me your eMail address. I'm in. I have 1ea. 8" now and 3 - 5 more in a montyh or so..... I can ask around I also have a pre dip for even darker color Edited March 9, 2008 by skiboatsp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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