Smith and Wesson is a picky eater

[Vultite 57]

Was shooting a decked out SW AR-15 MP and busted out some wolf ammo after running american brass through it. No problems with the brass, but once i took out the newly made polymer coated .223, it didn't have enough ass to push the bolt carrier all the way back to feed the next round, i tried this in several mags, metal and polymer and produced the same results, so this is just a warning to anyone wanting cheap .223 for AR's

[AgentLQ 3]

You should probably be caned for trying to use Wolf in an AR.

 

I'm sure you've been to box-o-truth and already figured out exactly why that would be bad.

[Saigaczech 9]

Hmm, I will do my own Wolf field test ASAP in my M&P15T. I know Patrick Sweeney used it as a standard test of AR function. Last week there were some Feds training at my range and they left mountains of steel casings for us to sweep up. I have never been let down by Wolf before, it has always been reliable, just make sure you clean your gun well.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Saigaczech

[saigaboy 0]

Hmm, I will do my own Wolf field test ASAP in my M&P15T. I know Patrick Sweeney used it as a standard test of AR function. Last week there were some Feds training at my range and they left mountains of steel casings for us to sweep up. I have never been let down by Wolf before, it has always been reliable, just make sure you clean your gun well.

 

 

My last duty station was at FT Lewis, WA. I bought my one and only AR from Olympic Arms (wholesale military discount). By the way, super nice people who stand behind their products.

 

They told me NEVER use wolf though an AR. I wanted to know why?

 

1. Polymer or laquer will first vaporize then after cooling slowly cake the receiver and barrel. In an AR with those tolerances they say that customers have returned guns who have the internal diameter of the barrel made smaller and it is a bear to get it out.

 

2. Same process affects that narrow gas tube.

 

3. The above is all made worse by the super dirty gun power but at least that can be cleaned out.

 

All the above is why I am an AK man.

[Vultite 57]

hahaha, did i mention the gun wasn't mine? hahaha, it was my friends who wanted to save money on ammo and got the polymer coated bulk deal from one of the discount sites, never again he said at the range, after tryin to help him with it and trying to fire a few rounds myself, i went back to my saiga and finished rolling out 300 rounds of romanian steel he was pissed lol, anyways, i put it up as a warning b/c yea, your not suppose to use that stuff, but shit, i thought it would at least cycle...

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

The poly vaporization is BS. I've put thousands of rounds of Wolf Poly through my DPMS with zero negative effect on the rifle.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I HAD the same problem with my Armorlite.

 

I never ran the lacquer, just the poly. (I have also heard the it's bad to run steel case through an AR...)

 

Anyhow, I was instructed to grip my rifle tighter... somehow by applying more pressure on the rifle,

it added more tension to the buffer spring and it ran perfect.....

 

I still don't understand the physics involved.... but it worked....

[jhereg 0]

Anyhow, I was instructed to grip my rifle tighter... somehow by applying more pressure on the rifle,

it added more tension to the buffer spring and it ran perfect.....

 

I still don't understand the physics involved.... but it worked....

 

They were probably telling you to stop "limp shouldering" the rifle. Much like you can limp wrist a handgun, you can do it w/ a rifle. If you have ammo of marginal power and a loose hold on the rifle, you will get a lot more jams than someone with a solid hold. I watched it at a machinegun shoot a couple of weeks ago where some of the people jammed a full auto AK many times a mag, but it tested fine for someone w/ a solid hold.

[Vultite 57]

well that was definatly not the problem, i had that gun tight as hell against me like i normally do, didn't do shit for me, or my buddy, he already sold the ammo, so its the next guy's problem. also, it didn't jam once, just didn't feed after first shot which implies to me unpowered ammo...

Edited May 6, 2008 by Vultite

[THE_HUNTER 2]

I've shot alot of Wolf and other Russian .223 in my Bushmasters, a Bullpup and an Ar, ZERO PROBLEMS ever.Make sure you clean your weapon,no matter what you shoot.No dirty guns in my cabinet!

[kresk 10,063]

At a highly regarded local gunsmith's I have seen numerous AR15's boogered up by Wolf ammo including jammed shells due to the lacquer. It is NOT a myth. You use it, you are taking an unnecessary chance.

[Vultite 57]

yea, personally if i go cheap, i use silver bear nickle coated rounds, much cleaner then wolf and way way cheap, i used to have a bushy that ate anything, but i had to replace a couple of things inside after about 3000 rounds but w/e my buddy won't be doing this again, i think he found some uber cheap brass on another site like georgia arms or ammotogo.com

[moxie1c 3]

I have a Smith M&P 40 and on one occasion during my initial break-in of it I bought a box of Wolf to see how it would function...or rather should I say dysfunction. Now that I have over 1,000 rounds through it I plan on grabbing another box of the steel stuff (yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment) to see if it will run flawlessly.

[Saigaczech 9]

I understand the lacquer problem mainly occurs when you do lots of rapid fire, like full auto for a few mags and leave a round in the chamber after. I never had a problem with any of my ARs so far but I have not tested the M&P15T with it yet. As far as a quick after range celaning, spray the shit out of it with carb spray to get any laquer and carbon out. Then clean as normal. OlyArms makes some nice stuff but none is mil-spec. Their tolerances can be way off on some stuff once in a while. Maybe they have more problems because their chambers are too tight and not chromed. I will try to say, "Hi" to Skip for you next time I drive down to Old Nisqually.

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

To hopefully put the Wolf myth to rest:

 

http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/afmmain.aspx?faqid=129

 

I also have here a nice yellow piece of paper titled. "Bushmaster Ammunition Advisory" About 2/3 the way down is this paragraph:

 

Bushmaster personnel have used the following ammunitions in various calibers for testing at the factory, and found they will cycle without malfunction and have not caused damage or problems:

PMC / SPEER / REMINGTON / WINCHESTER / WOLF / SELLIER & BELLOT / AMERICAN EAGLE (Federal Manufactured) / M.E.N. (German Manufacture)

[Bvamp 604]

I had absolutely ZERO problems in an Eagle Arms Armalite made 5.56 chambered gun. I even left coated cased rounds chambered with the gun HOT HOT, and never had a problem.

[DHunter 1]

I have a Smith M&P 40 and on one occasion during my initial break-in of it I bought a box of Wolf to see how it would function...or rather should I say dysfunction. Now that I have over 1,000 rounds through it I plan on grabbing another box of the steel stuff (yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment) to see if it will run flawlessly.

 

That reminds me. I've got a box of Wolf .45acp that would not work in my last .45. I'll have to see if it will work in my M&P45.

[saigaboy 0]

I understand the lacquer problem mainly occurs when you do lots of rapid fire, like full auto for a few mags and leave a round in the chamber after. I never had a problem with any of my ARs so far but I have not tested the M&P15T with it yet. As far as a quick after range celaning, spray the shit out of it with carb spray to get any laquer and carbon out. Then clean as normal. OlyArms makes some nice stuff but none is mil-spec. Their tolerances can be way off on some stuff once in a while. Maybe they have more problems because their chambers are too tight and not chromed. I will try to say, "Hi" to Skip for you next time I drive down to Old Nisqually.

 

 

I used to go there about once a month to say hi and kick tires. Super good people. If you ever get a chance to go to their customer appreciation day please do so.

 

The Olyarms guys were telling me they were big suppliers to DOD. I took a factory tour and they showed me their templates and said they should all be mill-spec or at least I thought.

 

I own one AR and it is an Olyarms one. I think it is well made and functions well.

 

Thanks for saying hi to the guys for me. Roger is a real nice guy and always hooks up the military.

[kresk 10,063]

To hopefully put the Wolf myth to rest:

 

http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/afmmain.aspx?faqid=129

 

I also have here a nice yellow piece of paper titled. "Bushmaster Ammunition Advisory" About 2/3 the way down is this paragraph:

 

Bushmaster personnel have used the following ammunitions in various calibers for testing at the factory, and found they will cycle without malfunction and have not caused damage or problems:

PMC / SPEER / REMINGTON / WINCHESTER / WOLF / SELLIER & BELLOT / AMERICAN EAGLE (Federal Manufactured) / M.E.N. (German Manufacture)

 

 

 

 

Bushmaster may be an exception, but I've seen numerous AR15's with Wolf shells jammed in the chamber with my own eyes, up close and personal. Caution always about blanket statements. Ain't a myth.

[jhereg 0]

From what I have seen if Wolf ammo will function your gun it is OK to shoot, but can cause a lot of problems after a long shooting session, or if you switch to brass cased ammo after shooting the Wolf.

 

There was a lot of discussion on shooting Wolf & other steel case ammo a while back. Old Painless who does "The Box of Truth" looked into it & this was what he came up with.

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

 

"What's happening here is that the steel Wolf cases aren't expanding enough to form a good seal when fired, so some of the (dirty, carbon-filled) gasses are getting between the case and the chamber, causing a build up of carbon in the chamber that is far in excess of normal. Then, firing a brass case that DOES expand fully will result in that case being "glued" into the chamber by the carbon buildup.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I say keep Wolf for the AK's.

[Havoc308 3]

One of my shooting buddies carries and old GI cleaning rod and an a hammer to the range so he can beat stuck wolf cases out of his AR. I don't even shoot that crap out of my Saigas. Monarch/Barnaul/Silver Bear is cleaner, doesn't stink, and is more accurate.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Havoc308

[Saigaczech 9]

Just leaves more for me, . I have yet to have any problems with Wolf in any chambering and at least it is not the underloaded SAMMI spec junk they make in this country.