terrace_mountain 0 Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I received my 74 style brake in the mail yesterday. It slid onto my barrel with no problems. The screws seem to grip pretty well also. So well that after removing it I noticed they left quite noticable imprints on the barrel. The only problem I've noticed so far is that I can't get them tight enough for the provided cover to slide over top. There is the tiniest bit of clearnance needed....nothing a little filing can't fix. I won't be able to hit the range until sometime next week, but I wanted to let you guys know that they DO fit on the 2006 model Saigas. oh yeah, If you like color coordination, get your painting supplies ready. These come in standard steel grey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I received my 74 style brake in the mail yesterday. It slid onto my barrel with no problems. The screws seem to grip pretty well also. So well that after removing it I noticed they left quite noticable imprints on the barrel. The only problem I've noticed so far is that I can't get them tight enough for the provided cover to slide over top. There is the tiniest bit of clearnance needed....nothing a little filing can't fix. I won't be able to hit the range until sometime next week, but I wanted to let you guys know that they DO fit on the 2006 model Saigas. oh yeah, If you like color coordination, get your painting supplies ready. These come in standard steel grey. Pics, man, pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bartonharley13 0 Posted May 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Ok so I don't have one on my gun but I do have one. So here are some shots. One with the cover over the set screws and one with it slid up showing them. Just trying to give you guys some better pictures of what they are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Polymerhead 0 Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Got mine, too small. Sanded the barrel shroud with 600 grit until all the finish was off, then used a hammer lightly to get it on. It went half way, got stuck, so I got a BFH to finish the job. Got it within 1/8" of the front sight but it blossomed the tips of the phantom hider a bit so the cover won't slip on to cover the screws. Giant waste of $46 in my opinion, live and learn I guess. Would not at all recomend this option. I'm left with either leaving it as-is or cutting it off and threading the barrel like I should have at the beginning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bulla 0 Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Got mine, too small. Sanded the barrel shroud with 600 grit until all the finish was off, then used a hammer lightly to get it on. It went half way, got stuck, so I got a BFH to finish the job. Got it within 1/8" of the front sight but it blossomed the tips of the phantom hider a bit so the cover won't slip on to cover the screws. Giant waste of $46 in my opinion, live and learn I guess. Would not at all recomend this option. I'm left with either leaving it as-is or cutting it off and threading the barrel like I should have at the beginning. Forcing it on was not the way to go, i would of kept sanding. But ya man that sucks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tyrvidar 0 Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 (edited) I received my 74 style brake in the mail yesterday. It slid onto my barrel with no problems. The screws seem to grip pretty well also. So well that after removing it I noticed they left quite noticable imprints on the barrel. The only problem I've noticed so far is that I can't get them tight enough for the provided cover to slide over top. There is the tiniest bit of clearnance needed....nothing a little filing can't fix. I won't be able to hit the range until sometime next week, but I wanted to let you guys know that they DO fit on the 2006 model Saigas. oh yeah, If you like color coordination, get your painting supplies ready. These come in standard steel grey. I'd take a small drill bit to the shroud on the front sight block, drill a small indent where the screws leave their grip mark. This will give them something to bite into and probably provide a better fit... and file down what ever else. Edited May 24, 2008 by Tyrvidar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bartonharley13 0 Posted May 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Got mine, too small. Sanded the barrel shroud with 600 grit until all the finish was off, then used a hammer lightly to get it on. It went half way, got stuck, so I got a BFH to finish the job. Got it within 1/8" of the front sight but it blossomed the tips of the phantom hider a bit so the cover won't slip on to cover the screws. Giant waste of $46 in my opinion, live and learn I guess. Would not at all recomend this option. I'm left with either leaving it as-is or cutting it off and threading the barrel like I should have at the beginning. Sorry for your troubles, but man you should have just measured the front sight block and if it would have been too much to sand/file off then just called Scott Gulledge at dpharms. This guy and the people who work for him really do a good job and would have helped you to the best of their abilities. They are measuring up some muzzle attachments for me and will send me a new one as soon as they have something that they are satisfied with it. Other than having to wait its no skin off my back. I'm not trying to be an a$$ but if you have to get the BFH you should take a step back and give a little more thought before jumping in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rangerdavid 6 Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 (edited) hay, i like the looks of those, and i didn't know dph were homeboys.... hell, i'll have to start shopping with them more. I'm sorry to hear someone has encounter a problem with the brake, it looks cool and is an immediate gratification kind of thing for those of us who have never threaded a barrel before. p.s. they look black in the photo on his web page....... are the both grey? Edited May 24, 2008 by rangerdavid Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Polymerhead 0 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Sorry for your troubles, but man you should have just measured the front sight block and if it would have been too much to sand/file off then just called Scott Gulledge at dpharms. This guy and the people who work for him really do a good job and would have helped you to the best of their abilities. They are measuring up some muzzle attachments for me and will send me a new one as soon as they have something that they are satisfied with it. Other than having to wait its no skin off my back. I'm not trying to be an a$$ but if you have to get the BFH you should take a step back and give a little more thought before jumping in. The product was simply not thought through. There's obviously enough variance that a large portion of those who buy it are going to have to return it or file down the barrel shroud. They should maybe think about adding some instructions to the package, or offering different options for ordering diameters in the first place. I'm sure they would have taken it back if I hadn't started installing it, but I bought a slip-on flash hider. For some stupid reason I thought it should perhaps slip on. It's an inferior product as it stands today, unless your barrel shroud happens to be within a thousandth or two of the 'optimuim' diameter. I'm sure they're a great company, they certainly shipped it in a hurry, but I think they needed some more R&D before they launched this product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Polymerhead 0 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 p.s. they look black in the photo on his web page....... are the both grey? The one I got was black and matched the Saiga's factory finish qute well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Polymerhead it's not their falt that it didn't fit your particular Saiga and you decided to try and force it with a BFH and screwed it up. Coming on here bashing DPH's product isn't going to help anything. Since you already ruined it, you might as well try to put something through the slots and use that to hammer it back off and return it to DPH. I know Scott personally and he will do all he can to help an unsatisfied customer. That would have been the right thing to do FIRST instead of saying the product sucks and is a waste of money. What you fail to realize is the fact that these Saigas are fine Russian firearms but they are still not all exactly alike and some after market parts you buy are going to need some minor fitting. That's just the way it is with a part like this. It is designed as a short cut or "easy way out" for those who don't have the tools or knowhow to do it the correct way by removing the shroud and threading the barrel. If you go back and read dinzag's post on the matter you will see that he stopped making these because of the inconsistency problem with different sized FSBs. You could have easily made it fit with a little more sanding on your FSB shroud, or even by sanding the inside of the break with a dremel and drum. People who make parts for these guns (like I do) realize that they are not all the same but sometimes require some fitting. If anything maybe DPH needs to say that specifically in the instructions included with this part, along with fitting instructions. There are lots of parts for guns, cars, and all sorts of things that aren't expected to just fit perfectly with no adjustments. Terrace _mountain, Tyrvidar is correct. You need to drill some small "dimples" in the shroud where the marks are left when you tighten the screws. That's the only thing that's gonna keep the brake on. I'm sure that's the way the part was designed and the reason the screws seem just barely too long. A '74 brake takes a LOT of force from a muzzle blast. Even ones that pin on have been known to fly down range after only a few shots. Perhaps that should also be written in the installation instructions. I'll email or call Scott and make him aware of these problems. He only sells things that are high quality and his customer service is impeccable. Every new product has an early trial period where things can be learned about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Polymerhead 0 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 If anything maybe DPH needs to say that specifically in the instructions included with this part, along with fitting instructions. There are lots of parts for guns, cars, and all sorts of things that aren't expected to just fit perfectly with no adjustments. There were no instructions at all. Just an invoice. That's part of the reason I think it needed to be thought through more before release. Dinzag tried it and couldn't make it work. Hopefully these guys get it to work better than it does today. Like I said - live and learn. It's the price I paid to be a guinea pig. I consider it a $50 lesson in the fact that you just need to do it right the first time, which would be threading the barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 If anything maybe DPH needs to say that specifically in the instructions included with this part, along with fitting instructions. There are lots of parts for guns, cars, and all sorts of things that aren't expected to just fit perfectly with no adjustments. There were no instructions at all. Just an invoice. That's part of the reason I think it needed to be thought through more before release. Dinzag tried it and couldn't make it work. Hopefully these guys get it to work better than it does today. Like I said - live and learn. It's the price I paid to be a guinea pig. I consider it a $50 lesson in the fact that you just need to do it right the first time, which would be threading the barrel. Scott is a good businessman and an overall nice guy. He would surely have no problem with sending you another one if you just get yours off and send it back to him. He probably just didn't realize until recently, that there would be fitting problems so I'm sure he is working on something else to include with future orders. Ya just have to know him. He has been selling parts to AK builders, not just easy fit after market stuff, for years. Most of these guys are used to having to fab stuff or make "adjustments" sometimes. Just call him and he will make it right. If you can get an accurate measurement with calipers that will help. It doesn't have to be absolutely press fit, the dimples will hold the set screws and tighten it up as long as it fits relatively good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I have had nothing but great experiences with DPH. Scott's communication has always been timely and proffesional. I would have just E-mailed Scott with the problem rather than try to force it. I would not sand too much off the FLB sleeve or the inside of the brake. Brakes that accually work are built to very close tollerances (so they can capture and redirect force), especialy the 74 type with double chambers. Sometimes just a few thousandths of variance can spoil accuracy at best, and destroy the brake or gun at worst. My father purchased one of Dinzag's pin-on brakes when he made them. It seemed to fit nice and tight, but was shot right off the end on his second trip to the range, it did not break but could no longer be trusted. Dinzag makes excellent products, but I am sure he realized the potential problems with pin-ons. I have had a couple of them fly off my Mosins too. I just think that there is no substitute for carefully threading a barrel with a TAT. No free lunch - no easy way out. Most of the pin-ons that stay on the muzzle (like the chinese Mason type) do not even work. The added weight gives some people the impression that muzzle climb is less, but if they were to try a real 74' style or J-Tac they would see the difference is like night and day. I appreciate your honesty in posting your problem, that is what makes this board great, but I hope that this does not discourage anyone from doing business with DPH. I buy from Scott at least once a month and will continue to do so until my wife makes me stop! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dph arms 88 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 I heard there was some talk over here that we needed to know about......You guys who know me, thanks for standing up for me. Those of you who dont know me.......trust that we have never intentonally done anybody wrong. As for the brakes, we took a sampling from a lot of rifles and several that other builder/vendors had in stock to make these brakes. We felt that we had a pretty good sampling but obviously there were some out there that were not represented in that sampling. We learned about the problem last week and we are now working on the solution. There are only a handfull that got shipped out and we WILL stand by each one of those (as we have always done). What we are working on is a set of shims that will fit over the end of the bbl and take up the variation between the different sizes. This will allow us to make all of the brakes one size and include 2-3 different thickness shims that will help to put the brake on with a good fit. One that is not too tight nor too sloppy. Give us a few days and we will have it all worked out. The shop that we use is the best that I have ever dealt with and they thrive on "fixing" what others say cant be fixed. For those of you who have one of these and it doesnt fit, call us at 888-376-0937 and we will take care of it. For the record.....please do not use a BFH to install these, it should not take that much effort. Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) Heya Scott. Did you get the email about making a Bulgarian type "beer can" slip on for the Saiga? PS When are the new Beryl coming rails out? Edited May 27, 2008 by MD_Willington Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dph arms 88 Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Heya Scott. Did you get the email about making a Bulgarian type "beer can" slip on for the Saiga? PS When are the new Beryl coming rails out? The new Beryl will hopefully be available in about 2 weeks. As for the email, i dont get around to emails very often. Call me at the office. Scott 888-376-0937 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Great to see ya around Scott. Don't be shy, we know you're busy as hell but this is where all the best info is...among other things ...It's worth wading through though, to pick out the good stuff, like other forums. Anyway...WELCOME! I sent ya a PM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reoiv 1 Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 (edited) Scott make one for the .308s please Edited May 28, 2008 by reoiv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dph arms 88 Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Scott make one for the .308s please It is in works but it has some "unique" chanllenges. I hope the new design for the 7.62 and the .223 will lend itself to the .308. Time will tell. Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bartonharley13 0 Posted May 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hey guys I kinda thought well why am I being such a baby and waiting on a new muzzle attachment that will just slide on I've dealt with worse before. So I sat down with the calipers and 600 grit paper today and with about an hour to hour and a half I had it measuring the same. So I then put a little WD-40 on it and carefully pressed it on as far as I could with my hand. I then took a dead blow hammer (rubber coated) and two firm hits later it was all the way on. I will try to get to the range some time soon and really put this thing through its paces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shellshock1918 1 Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) Thanks barton! I am soooooooooooo getting one of these(AK74 type) sometime in June. Edited May 30, 2008 by Shellshock1918 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rangerdavid 6 Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hey guys I kinda thought well why am I being such a baby and waiting on a new muzzle attachment that will just slide on I've dealt with worse before. So I sat down with the calipers and 600 grit paper today and with about an hour to hour and a half I had it measuring the same. So I then put a little WD-40 on it and carefully pressed it on as far as I could with my hand. I then took a dead blow hammer (rubber coated) and two firm hits later it was all the way on. I will try to get to the range some time soon and really put this thing through its paces. man, i'm glad to see you've got in on, and working (apparently).. i just really don't think it's supposed to be that hard of a job. If so, threading the barrel would be easier I think............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrace_mountain 0 Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 I still haven't had a chance to shoot with mine yet. Anyone have any range reports? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bartonharley13 0 Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 No I haven't gotten to the range yet either, but i am planning on going next weekend. I will try to get some videos or at least some pictures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Polymerhead 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yep, I've shot mine. Since it's probably not going anywhere due to my caveman installation method, I unscrewed the screws, added a bunch of green LocTite and torqued the screws down as firmly as I could (degreased it first). Took it to the range the next day and it didn't budge through the 100 rounds at all. I was shooting pairs and triples the whole time, fast enough to heat up the handguard but not bumpfiring or anything. The Phantom doesn't really reduce muzzle rise at all, but it's not really supposed to as far as I know. I would expect it's a fairly effective flash hider, though I've not shot it at dusk or at night. I'm not utilizing the screw collar, but the LocTite seemed to hold everything together. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrace_mountain 0 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 It's supposed to be rainy tomorrow here in Central Pennsy, but I'm going down to the Hellhaus (don't ask) tomorrow to shoot from the indoors to the outdoors...Burns' cows love it when we go shooting on the farm. We'll probably be shooting bubba'd targets (skunked cases of shitty beer, televisions, dart boards, a Die Hard 4 poster) so I won't really be able to report MOA results, but I'll hit you guys up with some performance commentary. I haven't fired my rifle in a few months and my itch has scabs from scratching so much. I've got a .50 tin full of black box Wolf ready to fly. woot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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