Optic or no Optic?

[topmaul 42]

This has been my logic recently, since the Saiga is in the Open Division why not take advantage of it and use an optic? So I tryed (and spent money on) various optics and mounting systems. Today I missed a lot of easy shots mostly flying clays and swinging clays, so I removed the optic then had some pretty decent times with no misses.

 

Bottom line is I seem to shoot much better with out a red dot so why bother using one on my S-12 of course I could keep trying with the red dot and attempt to get used to it.

 

Do I bag the red dot and stick with irons or do I keep trying and get better with the red dot?

 

Last match we had a stage in the woods and I had a great deal of difficulty picking out the targets because of the view blockage with the optic I just could not find the targets this time I had the same problem with the moving targets.

[patriot 7,197]

Looks like you already have your answer...you are better w/o the optics.

[flg8r 0]

It depends...like you already mentioned, in competition IPSC/3-gun etc, the mag fed shotguns already place one in OPEN class,so the advantages to using optics on a shotgun should not go unrealized. I run a C-more on my saiga-12, E-tac conversion on a rail and love it. Slugs out to 75-100 yards are a no brainer. Agree, shooting flying clays are a little more challenging until you get use to it. Question you may try and ask yourself, and do not mean to be insulting, but is your technique with the chosen optic appropriate? Both eyes open, sighted for slugs and patterned for shot, solid cheek weld, not using too small of a MOA dot, etc etc.I find that once I was familiar with the shot pattern that "follows the dot" my shot to shot times around stationary clay targets and around steel actually improved. Bottom line is I think it is a comfort level thing and the more you work on it the easier it will become. Having said all that, I believe it takes a while to get use to the feel and mechanics of running an optic, as made obvious by local matches, where despite optics on my saiga, there are still a few who will be a little faster regardless of the types of weapon i.e tube fed shotguns, due to shooting skill and ability. One last thing, when competing in Open class, you have to ask yourself is it worth it if you don't run an open pistol, because I believe some of the same ideas apply to theses pistol types as well. Just my $0.02....

[itento 0]

Some of us (64 years old) don't have much choice about optics. I just put a JP rail sight on my S12 (to shoot in an IDPA 3 gun match) and the front and rear sights are REALLY fuzzy. I normally have an Aimpoint T1 on a pic rail and really like it and since I naturally shoot red dots with both eyes open, it works great for me. I think the big thing is what each individual finds works best for them. I'm a certified instructor and find that each student is different depending on eye dominance, stance, etc. For USPSA I usually shoot a dot on rifle, shotgun and pistol (.38 Super) and have a tactical holster so it doesn't dislodge. For IMG I shoot red dots on rifle and shotgun but usually shoot my G34 with fiber optics siince there is no power factor and usually not many precision shots for pistol.

[ajackb 0]

I tried my Saiga with the factory sights for a few matches but didn't perform to my expectations so I ground off the front sight and installed a Cobra rail over the gas tube. I've been running a C-More look alike (ATN) but found it to be a bit high so am now on a Aimpoint look alike tube red dot. Great on steel but as you mentioned the flying clays are a bit tricky. I prefer a optic where I can get one.

[Twinsen 86]

You'd need a really really open sight to do clays IMHO. But in all seriousness, whatever feels more natural should be what you go with. I like optics because I've never been taught how to correctly use irons, I'm all over the place and my cheek weld must be different every time I shoot or something.

[SinistralRifleman 0]

I really do not understand where the perception that open sights are needed for clays has come from? I see people post it a lot.

 

I never have a problem hitting flying clays with my aimpoint (or other red dots). Both popper flippers and launched from traditional clay launchers give me no trouble. With both eyes open using a dot, its so easy it's like cheating. I suppose some people might too much time aiming or if they don't shoot both eyes open it might be less advantageous.

Edited July 23, 2008 by SinistralRifleman

[GTOShootr 0]

I say go with optics, but go back and try irons alone again. That is best way to learn what works best. Weighing the pros and cons, the optics always win out for me, especially with a Saiga. Hitting clays might be easier without an optic with a vent rib shotgun where you are close to the bore, but with a Saiga the advantage is only slight since you are dealing with a sight-to-bore offset with irons anyways. A dot only adds only a little more offset. The dot sight will give you two eyes open precision shots faster with a target focus, which is great for quick transitions.

 

Also since Saigas are in Open, Saiga shooters are most likely shooting a dot handgun and some sort of optic(s) on the rifle so having a dot on your shotgun also keeps things consistent. If you stick with irons and you were to have stages where you might have to go from handgun to shotgun, and that means going from a dot to irons. Going from a dot, which uses a target focus, to irons, which generally use a front sight focus, adds some difficulty.

 

I use a C-more on an Ultimak rail for my optic.

[GTOShootr 0]

I really do not understand where the perception that open sights are needed for clays has come from? I see people post it a lot.

 

I never have a problem hitting flying clays with my aimpoint (or other red dots). Both popper flippers and launched from traditional clay launchers give me no trouble. With both eyes open using a dot, its so easy it's like cheating. I suppose some people might too much time aiming or if they don't shoot both eyes open it might be less advantageous.

 

+1

 

Whatever you use to shoot a moving target like clays, you're likely to need some sort of lead. You just need to learn your leads with the dot like you would anything else.

[oldandslow 3]

I am also a C-More 4 minute dot user. Mounted on a Belarus BP02, with the picatinny rail removed, and the mount cut down as thin as I dare, then bolted on.

 

I shoot with both eyes open.

 

I have a Polychoke. If I am shooting launched clays, I open up the choke to modified. If steel only, xtra full.

 

Oh yeah, I practice at what I'm not good at.

 

I am also a really old guy, so the dot is much faster to acquire then a front sight.

 

Let me point out that "great" trap and skeet shooters look at the clay, not the gun. Pretty hard for me to do, when I'm focusing on a steel activator that is launching a clay.

[IPSC_GUY 3]

I am in the midst of trying out a Leupold prismatic 1 X mounted in a cantilever fashion on a YHM rail extension attacjhed to the Ultimak rail. I picked it up cheap and it's main advantage is the circle dot cross-hair reticle.

 

When I first got it I called Leupold to ask if I could get just the circle dot reticle and they told me not yet. BUT the cross-hairs combined with the circle and dot is starting to grow on me.

 

So far for slugs I use the dot, for birdshot I use the circle. So far so good.

 

IPSC_GUY

SIERRA II ALPHA

 

Edited July 30, 2008 by IPSC_GUY