922r Enforcement

[skifast 2]

Is the law being enforced? If yes, how and where? Are ATF agents checking guns at ranges, etc.

 

I am not advocating breaking the law, I am just curious.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Is the law being enforced? If yes, how and where? Are ATF agents checking guns at ranges, etc.

 

I am not advocating breaking the law, I am just curious.

 

The general consensus seems to be that it's more of a "tack-on" charge. Meaning, if you were to get in trouble with your firearm for something else, they might add in the 922r violation. I've never heard of people checking at ranges. I'd be willing to bet a lot of LEO's and such, have no idea what 922r even is. I've read about NY police officers not even being aware that NY still has an AWB in place.

 

But I know I wouldn't wanna be the one they choose to make an example out of .

[moxie1c 3]

+1, nice writeup 22.

[DS12 1]

Yes, pretty much sums it up nicely 22

[righttoown 0]

Good informatiom.

[Etek 32]

Edited September 8, 2008 by Etek

[Azrial 1,091]

It does not matter if rank and file local law enforcement is aware of 922R.

 

1. It only takes one (1) officer who is to cause you a problem.

 

2. The local law enforcement will refer the matter to their state crime lab and/or BATF, who will be aware.

 

3. The law does not have to be enforced to cause you damage. As a non-compliant firearm that was taken from a suspect it will most likely not be returned, it will be classed as contraband.

 

I am not in favor of 922R, but many folks that post to these threads are just posting an opinion based on what they think that the law says and what the police will do. Laws are not made or enforced based on "common sense."

 

I know what I am talking about. Why risk it?

[WardenWolf 6]

Edited September 8, 2008 by Mike the Wolf

[Azrial 1,091]

Unless that officer has a search warrant, he really has no legal standing to even inspect your weapon.

Wrong.

 

There are many warrant exceptions and exigent circumstances that may lawfully put your firearm in the hands of a law enforcement officer without a warrant. I am not trying to call you out but you flat out do not know what you are talking about.

 

I assume the scenario that you are envisioning when you make this statement is frankly the least likely to be a problem, a law enforcement officer walking up and asking to inspect your firearm. In that situation just say no, like you would to anyone else that asks to look at your weapon, that you don't want to show it to.

 

But keep in mind that while a warrantless, completely illegal inspection of your firearm will be useless from the point of prosecution, it still make your firearm subject to seizure as contraband.

 

Don't believe me? Well I have seen a lot of seized illegal drugs suppressed as evidence in many cases, (not my cases! ) but I have never seen them returned!

[WardenWolf 6]

Again, as I said before, unless you do something STUPID with it in the first place, that won't happen. And STUPID would be using it with the high capacity mag in anything other than a range situation.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Mike the Wolf

[okie shooter 0]

Remember without 922r, we wouldnt be able to own new variants of banned firearms out there.(even us made rifles comply with the reg) Thus compliance to the reg is our friend not the enemy, IMHO. Without it I wouldnt own most of the aks I have plus the CETME's, G-3, FAL's and such too.

Edited September 9, 2008 by okie shooter

[WardenWolf 6]

Indeed. I'll probably eventually have Dinzag replace my gas piston. This is the least invasive approach and won't impair my ability to do anything else to the gun. From a modding standpoint, that's the safest thing to change out as well as probably the cheapest solution. Once that's done, I'll only have 10 parts if I use a US magazine.

[Azrial 1,091]

Again, as I said before, unless you do something STUPID with it in the first place, that won't happen. And STUPID would be using it with the high capacity mag in anything other than a range situation.

 

Not really, lets see, off the top of my head....

 

• Your landlord does a routine inspection of your apartment, sees your non-922R compliant converted Saiga and calls the police. They enter your apartment with her permission and seize it and call the BATF.
   
  Your car and you meet the description of someone that just robbed a local bank. You are stopped by the police and held for a roadside lineup. They search the car under a Carol Exception and find your non-922R compliant converted Saiga. They seize it and call the BATF.
   
  Your roommate is a doper and unbeknown to you sells some pot out of your and his home. The police do a knock and Talk and while lawfully inside your home see your non-922R compliant converted Saiga in the corner of the house. They seize it along with the drugs and call in the BATF.
   
  You leave your non-922R compliant converted Saiga at the local gunsmith to be parkerized. He becomes concerned that your non-922R compliant converted Saiga is illegal. He calls the local police and/or the BATF.
   
  Someone breaks into to your car and steals your non-922R compliant converted Saiga. You report it to the police who recover it 3 months later. While it is lawfully in their custody they become suspicious and call in the BATF.
  

Do I have to go on? Again, I am not questioning your intent, but your information is bad here. I do not want to see others harmed by it.

[WardenWolf 6]

There's still lots of hangups to the situations you suggest that would prevent this. In the landlord situation, they would still need a warrant to seize the weapon unless it was very blatantly illegal from a cursory visual inspection. There's also legal problems with her just letting them in without a warrant (Fair Housing Act restrictions; the landlord herself cannot enter your apartment without giving prior notice except in case of emergency). That being said, if you actually convert a Saiga, chances are you're using US parts anyway as there's no sense NOT doing it (this falls under the "don't be stupid" bit I repeatedly said). The US parts kits are just as cheap and even a 3-part trigger kit would eliminate the problem forever as long as you use US mags. The situation I discussed deals primarily with magazine use. In the doper situation, you're in trouble anyway since you effectively let someone under the influence have access to a firearm. In the gunsmith situation, this is usually done sans furniture or any other external accessories. And again, in the latter situation, you might as well have used US parts in the first place since it doesn't cost you anything extra. If you convert it, use the US parts. Don't be a moron and turn your gun back into an AK-47 without doing it the right way. It WILL get the wrong kind of attention.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Mike the Wolf

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I think Azrial's point is that some people come on here and make 922r seem like it really doesn't matter. But when it comes to someone asking how 922r works, or how to abide by it, hinting toward that it's "no big deal" could end up getting the person who's asking the question, in some doo-doo.

 

If someone understands 922r, and just plain doesn't care about it, then so be it. They're gonna do what they're gonna do.

 

But when someone is asking questions, it's best to give them the info that won't possibly get them in trouble.

[Gunfixr 76]

From what I've found out, it's been a "tack on" violation. So far. There have been questionable weapons found in a search warrant or other seizure that turned out to be non-compliant and the charge was added. It doesn't seem to be a real priority with BATFE.

 

That said, it should not be taken to mean that you can just ignore it (922r). This could change at any moment. Since the law exists, they can decide for themselves just how much of a priority it is. You don't want to be the one they start with, especially with how easy it is to avoid. This argument is kind of similar to the "cut off my barrel and weld a muzzle attachment to it" argument. I have talked with several folks down at BATFE about this. The general consensus was that it would depend on the circumstances at the time, along with the agent at the time. If it was clear that there was no intent to make an illegal weapon, and that it was immediately to be rectified, then a chance to rectify it would probably be given. Of course, that decision was up to the agent, and not guaranteed. The safest option was to remove the barrel if possible.

 

Anyway, not to rehash that argument, the point is that 922r should be followed, for to ignore it is to play the odds, and any good gambler will tell you that, sooner or later, the odds run out.

[BobAsh 582]

Azrial and Gunfxr are correct. Don't scoff at a law that could cause you to lose your gun ownership rights permanently.

Edited September 9, 2008 by BobAsh

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Azrial and Gunfxr are correct. Don't scoff at a law that could cause you to lose your gun ownership rights permanently.

 

Like Coach Tucker used to say: "If You play pussy, You get F#@ked!"

 

Juggernaut say: Don't play pussy with 922R!

[Azrial 1,091]

There's still lots of hangups to the situations you suggest that would prevent this. In the landlord situation, they would still need a warrant to seize the weapon unless it was very blatantly illegal from a cursory visual inspection. There's also legal problems with her just letting them in without a warrant (Fair Housing Act restrictions; the landlord herself cannot enter your apartment without giving prior notice except in case of emergency). ...

Mike, I do not know what your background is, or how much property that you have seized in your life but I assure you that I know when a seizure can be made. In the landlord scenario your bone to pick would be with the landlord, not the police. Just because her entry was perhaps illegal, has nothing to do with the seizure by the police. They would not need a warrant to take the firearm, only the good faith belief that it was illegal. How many folks believe that there must be something illegal about your firearms now?

 

You, or your attorney, might try and raise issues with each of the scenarios presented. I would hope so, if you are paying them! On the other hand there are usually two sides in court. Nothing new here!

 

You are talking about being charged with a 922R violation, right now I am just talking about the police seizing and keeping contraband. By that I mean, your firearm.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Azrial

[Azrial 1,091]

...... If you convert it, use the US parts. Don't be a moron and turn your gun back into an AK-47 without doing it the right way. It WILL get the wrong kind of attention.

 

Here we are in 100% agreement!