Almost a waste!

[Ogar Lumox 1]

Decided to put an adjustable stock on the 308, bought the Tapco T-6 extentable stock with pistol grip. Thinking I could avoid changing out the FCG and moving the trigger guard. The installation went well, just drill a few holes in the stock and put in the screws. Great, or so I though. The pistol grip changes the hands geometry in relation to the trigger. The trigger pivots are in the same location as are the AK style with factory pistolgrip and the trigger is extended to the rear. As a result the pull on the trigger is more of an upward motion rather than being straight back as most triggers do. The pistol grip puts the hand into a lower position in relation to the trigger so it is more of an up and down motion with the trigger, if you pull it straight back is is very difficult, you have to lift more than pull. It has to change. So I orderd a USA FCG and will be moving the trigger guard. I think the change will be for the better anyway, the balance of the rifle will shift a little and will make the center of gravity closer to the center. I won't have to cut any holes because the receiver is already cut under the trigger guard, same with the FCG holes.

[komblockid 0]

Decided to put an adjustable stock on the 308, bought the Tapco T-6 extentable stock with pistol grip. Thinking I could avoid changing out the FCG and moving the trigger guard. The installation went well, just drill a few holes in the stock and put in the screws. Great, or so I though. The pistol grip changes the hands geometry in relation to the trigger. The trigger pivots are in the same location as are the AK style with factory pistolgrip and the trigger is extended to the rear. As a result the pull on the trigger is more of an upward motion rather than being straight back as most triggers do. The pistol grip puts the hand into a lower position in relation to the trigger so it is more of an up and down motion with the trigger, if you pull it straight back is is very difficult, you have to lift more than pull. It has to change. So I orderd a USA FCG and will be moving the trigger guard. I think the change will be for the better anyway, the balance of the rifle will shift a little and will make the center of gravity closer to the center. I won't have to cut any holes because the receiver is already cut under the trigger guard, same with the FCG holes.

Wow, thanks for the info. I just ordered the same stock and know what I have to look forward to.

[Toby Allen 0]

Has anyone tried this stock on a s12? Will it be the same as on a s308?

[Ogar Lumox 1]

I did have to extend the PG nut hole to the rear to make the TG move work. Pretty easy to do with a rotogrinder and cut off wheel.

 

 

One other thing in doing the PG change this way is the length of the stock will be longer than if you were to use the regular AK T-6. Length of pull fully colapsed is 13.25", fully extended is 17.25". 13" to 14" is about what I like so I'm ok with how it turned out.

[lockster30 0]

Lumox,

What pistol grip did you use? Do you think all the ak style grips will cause this "upward lift " on the trigger? I am seriously considering purchasing a .308 with 16.5 barrel version today for $489 , but I like to do my research first . What FCG are you considering?

Thanks for the post

Edited November 29, 2008 by Lock

[blazo666 0]

i just ordered the same tapco stock for my 7.62 but havnt fired it yet . .but thats does kinda make sense to pull up cuz of the angle your finger would be at with that fisher price hunting stock they come with is way dif. then straight at the trigger w/pistol grip . . .btw im kinda newb . .whats FCG stand for . .im colliding with tons af acronyms i dont know on here

[Ogar Lumox 1]

Lock, I used the SAW style grip that came with the T-6 Tapco stock, had to buy a PG bolt and nut to make it work of course. The trigger lift situation is due to the pistol grip changes the location of your hand in relation to the trigger. On the original stock your hand grabs around the top of the stock so your trigger finger is in a better position to pull the trigger in the stock position, more of an up and back motion, when you change to a pistol grip your hand is in a much lower position in relation to the trigger and trigger pivot, instead of pulling up and back the finger is lower and pulls straight back and maybe a little down too. The way the Saiga trigger is lengthened by the factory it just makes for a weird geometry, they (Saiga) did the cheap thing with these rifles, instead of moving the trigger pivot back to acomodate the non-pistol grip stock the left the pivot in the standard place and lengthened the trigger to the rear and in doing so fucked up the geometry. The bottom line is if you convert one to a pistol grip your much better off changing out the FCG and moving the trigger guard so that everything is in the standard AK locations. Trying to take the short cut and not move the trigger guard and replace the FGC will have less than satisfactory results.

 

Oh, the FCG I used is TAPCO G-2 single hook. But there is a fly in the ointment on that too, being the hole for the spring for the disconnector is too small and a replacement spring is needed. I found a spring out of a ink pen that fit, it is not as strong of a spring as the original and I have not test fired the mod'd gun yet so I cannot say if it will work.

 

$489 is a pretty good price for that these days. I really lucked out when I found the one I have, bought it from a private party before the election for $325. Go for it, the conversion isn't too tough.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Lumox

[IndyArms 10,186]

FCG stands for Fire Control Group.

 

Thats the trigger, hammer, and disconnecter. ( as well as the springs that they work in conjunction with) AN FCG is also one of the typical "parts" swapped out when doing conversions, and will count towards three 922® compliant parts if replaced with USA made parts.

 

Hope that helps.

 

[AK308_in_AK99709 0]

I just installed it on my 308. Did not use the supplied self-tapping screws. Used the screws from my original stock. Used blue Loc-Tite. Also installed the supplied riser insert. Love it. My trigger pull is still great.

 

J-T

[crashy 0]

I just installed it on my 308. Did not use the supplied self-tapping screws. Used the screws from my original stock. Used blue Loc-Tite. Also installed the supplied riser insert. Love it. My trigger pull is still great.

 

J-T

 

If it's not too much trouble would you post pictures? I'd like to see what it looks like. Also, could you show the trigger pull? Thanks.

 

Crashy.

[RangerM9 1]

I bought the same stock, it installs nicely. As the original poster stated, it does change the geometery of the trigger pull. Honestly i like the pull on the stock gun, the upward pull works fine with the standard stock. The pistol grip does make the pull harder. On anything but the 308 this stock should work fine.

 

I may swap it back off and put in on my .223

[OpFlash 0]

On anything but the 308 this stock should work fine.

 

I may swap it back off and put in on my .223

Why would it work better on your .223? Don't they come with the same extended trigger?

 

I wonder how Saiga sells the ones with the Dragunov type stocks, wouldn't that make for F'd up trigger geometry too?

 

BTW I also bought the same stock and have the same problem with my .308. I'm encouraged by how simple it sounds to swap the TCG and move the trigger forward. I typically screw up anything mechanical but I'm starting to feel like I could actually do it.

[Bouncer042 0]

What would be a good FCG to use? I'm new to the whole modification of guns thing. When I find them they're single and double hook and honesly I don't know one from "Adam's house cat." I do know you get what you pay for, I don't want to be a cheapskate nor do I want to sink money I can't afford into a gun. So any input on what's what and what works best on a Saiga .308 with a T6 stock would be appreciated.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Bouncer042

[Ogar Lumox 1]

If you don't want to mess with the safety modifications you might want to get the Dinzag FCG. It costs more than the Tapo but you shouldn't have to Fk with it, just a drop in job.

[Bouncer042 0]

well the thing is i bought the gun with a t6 collapsible stock and pistol grip...but the trigger guard and FCG are all original parts. i'm honestly worried about doing something to F*%& up the gun. so I've still got the trigger that's three inches long...and want to change it to a trigger that's comfortable with a pistol grip.

[RangerM9 1]

On anything but the 308 this stock should work fine.

 

I may swap it back off and put in on my .223

Why would it work better on your .223? Don't they come with the same extended trigger?

 

I wonder how Saiga sells the ones with the Dragunov type stocks, wouldn't that make for F'd up trigger geometry too?

 

BTW I also bought the same stock and have the same problem with my .308. I'm encouraged by how simple it sounds to swap the TCG and move the trigger forward. I typically screw up anything mechanical but I'm starting to feel like I could actually do it.

 

 

the .223 and 7.62x39 have a straight back trigger pull, the 308 has a back and up angled trigger pull. I have no idea why the 308 has a different trigger set up , but it does.

 

The trigger location is the same on all three, that they have in common, but the inner parts are different on the 308.

[cma g21 3]

the .223 and 7.62x39 have a straight back trigger pull, the 308 has a back and up angled trigger pull. I have no idea why the 308 has a different trigger set up , but it does.

 

The trigger location is the same on all three, that they have in common, but the inner parts are different on the 308.

 

Note: There were some Saiga-M's imported with the same FCG as the .308's (I have one in .223). FWIR, only 200 of these were imported (100 in .223 and 100 in 7.62x39) so they're not that common. It seems the Saiga-M's being importing now have a standard AK trigger and a thumbhole stock.