Shepherds crook or Krebs retainer?

[vbrtrmn 167]

Thats interesting. I was planning on getting a couple but guess Ill doublecheck with them first. Here's what is posted on the Krebs website right under their retainer piece:

 

NOTE: Orders containing only trigger pin retaining plates will be shipped USPS Priority Mail at a flat rate of $6.00. Please select the UPS Ground shipping option. Shipping costs will be adjusted prior to shipment.

 

HarvKY

 

Well, when I ordered mine, it was $10, that was a few months ago; thought a $9 mark-up on shipping was a bit ridiculous, especially when the post man will just pick-up that kind of package. If it was shipped priority mail that may have been acceptable, but I just felt ripped off. When I got the package, I thought, "WTF is this an eBay seller?!? F* these guys!"

[nalioth 405]

What you should do is use the proper size of hitch pin.

 

Which is? And they're sold where? And OMG I LOVE THOSE THINGS.

You should probably read the whole thread. I even included a picture in this post. They are very hard to get - you must find a hardware store. Any hardware store. China-mart may even sell them. Take a pivot pin with you to get the right size, but off the top of my head, 3/16 hitch pins should do it.

 

If the pins don't rotate, the hammer and trigger can start to wear down a track in their respective pivot pins.

 

If it wears a deep enough track, it can lead to a malfunctioning weapon. A guy went to federal prison because his AR15 malfunctioned a while back, if you'll remember.

 

Do you know of a book, or internet site where I can find the design specs relating to this?

I've searched, but with no luck.

I spoke to a mechanical engineer about this, and he was sceptical (to put it mildly).

I'd like to be able to point him towards the source where you got this information, if it's alright.

You can ask on any Kalashnikov-centric forum.

 

how many hitch pins do you need?

3?

 

why is the original all i wire?

is it better then 3 separate connections?

If you need 3, I hope you have your approved tax stamp. There are two pivot pins in US legal "sporter" Kalashnikovs and 3 in full auto Kalashnikovs.

[Superhawk138 202]

Hawk,

I like your approch. I did it totally different.

 

I cut off the short tail piece and a coil of the wound spring.

 

I used a vise grip and bent a short curve on the other end (about 3/8")

 

I slid in the spring from the rear between the grip screw block and the left inside of the reciever.

 

As I fed it in I used a narrow needle nose pliers and led it under the trigger pin and forward as I pulled it up over the top of the hammer pin.

 

At this point be sure the short curved end goes over the top and down the other side of the hammer pin (helps hold that end of the retainer)

 

Last I plugged in the nylon hole plug from Dinzag Arms that retains the round coiled end (it is also held between the grip screw block)

 

I have yet to really put it to the test. My first idea was to use a socket bolt to hold the coil but it was to damn tough to put the nut on it.

 

If it tends to slip back, I would put more of a angle on the front end bend.

 

Please checkout the attached photos.

 

Hawk, Do you cut anything on yours and does the round coil end go through the safety latch?

 

Frosty

I cut most of the coils off the spring and leave a couple so I can get the safety lever through it. I install it by hooking the hammer pin first then letting it lay on the bottom of the receiver to install the trigger axis pin, then I pull up and insert the safety lever through it to hold pressure on the pins. I haven't had a pin back out yet.

[7.62x39 0]

If the pins don't rotate, the hammer and trigger can start to wear down a track in their respective pivot pins.

 

If it wears a deep enough track, it can lead to a malfunctioning weapon. A guy went to federal prison because his AR15 malfunctioned a while back, if you'll remember.

 

Do you know of a book, or internet site where I can find the design specs relating to this?

I've searched, but with no luck.

I spoke to a mechanical engineer about this, and he was sceptical (to put it mildly).

I'd like to be able to point him towards the source where you got this information, if it's alright.

 

That absolutely happened.

It was all over the gun forums (including documentation) The two biggest shockers were that he wasn't even the owner of the rifle, he was the one shooting it, and the ATF could not even replicate the malfunction. I think I have a link on my work comp, I'll check tomorrow.

Edited January 30, 2009 by 7.62x39

[G O B 3,516]

It's an AK design, use a shepards crook. Don't re-invent the wheel. With well lubed pins the tension of the wire PREVENTS the pins from rotating in the reciever holes. The bearing area of the cheet metal reciever is miniscule compared to the bearing area of the other parts that the pins go through. So if you are into accelerated wear, and early parts failure - let the pins rotate freely. If you just want to get the service life designed into it by Uncle Mikail, use a wire retainer.

[cma g21 3]

That absolutely happened.

It was all over the gun forums (including documentation) The two biggest shockers were that he wasn't even the owner of the rifle, he was the one shooting it, and the ATF could not even replicate the malfunction. I think I have a link on my work comp, I'll check tomorrow.

 

If it's the one I heard about, it's an AR, not an AK.

[Paulry 50]

Hawk,

I like your approch. I did it totally different.

 

I cut off the short tail piece and a coil of the wound spring.

 

I used a vise grip and bent a short curve on the other end (about 3/8")

 

I slid in the spring from the rear between the grip screw block and the left inside of the reciever.

 

As I fed it in I used a narrow needle nose pliers and led it under the trigger pin and forward as I pulled it up over the top of the hammer pin.

 

At this point be sure the short curved end goes over the top and down the other side of the hammer pin (helps hold that end of the retainer)

 

Last I plugged in the nylon hole plug from Dinzag Arms that retains the round coiled end (it is also held between the grip screw block)

 

I have yet to really put it to the test. My first idea was to use a socket bolt to hold the coil but it was to damn tough to put the nut on it.

 

If it tends to slip back, I would put more of a angle on the front end bend.

 

Please checkout the attached photos.

 

Hawk, Do you cut anything on yours and does the round coil end go through the safety latch?

 

Frosty

I cut most of the coils off the spring and leave a couple so I can get the safety lever through it. I install it by hooking the hammer pin first then letting it lay on the bottom of the receiver to install the trigger axis pin, then I pull up and insert the safety lever through it to hold pressure on the pins. I haven't had a pin back out yet.

 

 

 

Hawk,

Cool! I like your approch. The short bend on the end of the wire is like the one I put on mine. I've got extra retainers (used e-clips on past converts) and will try it. The problem with the e-clip I see is they are a little to narrow (not wide enough). Can't prove it, just a feeling after working as a mechanic for years. Did you see the statement of poping off e-clips?

 

So that's the reason I'm going to try your design and and test it. Buy you a beer some day. I'll replace the e-clips. I'll take photos and post.

 

Hawk,

One last question, does it work on rifles?

 

Thanks -

Frosty

[Superhawk138 202]

Hawk,

I like your approch. I did it totally different.

 

I cut off the short tail piece and a coil of the wound spring.

 

I used a vise grip and bent a short curve on the other end (about 3/8")

 

I slid in the spring from the rear between the grip screw block and the left inside of the reciever.

 

As I fed it in I used a narrow needle nose pliers and led it under the trigger pin and forward as I pulled it up over the top of the hammer pin.

 

At this point be sure the short curved end goes over the top and down the other side of the hammer pin (helps hold that end of the retainer)

 

Last I plugged in the nylon hole plug from Dinzag Arms that retains the round coiled end (it is also held between the grip screw block)

 

I have yet to really put it to the test. My first idea was to use a socket bolt to hold the coil but it was to damn tough to put the nut on it.

 

If it tends to slip back, I would put more of a angle on the front end bend.

 

Please checkout the attached photos.

 

Hawk, Do you cut anything on yours and does the round coil end go through the safety latch?

 

Frosty

I cut most of the coils off the spring and leave a couple so I can get the safety lever through it. I install it by hooking the hammer pin first then letting it lay on the bottom of the receiver to install the trigger axis pin, then I pull up and insert the safety lever through it to hold pressure on the pins. I haven't had a pin back out yet.

 

 

 

Hawk,

Cool! I like your approch. The short bend on the end of the wire is like the one I put on mine. I've got extra retainers (used e-clips on past converts) and will try it. The problem with the e-clip I see is they are a little to narrow (not wide enough). Can't prove it, just a feeling after working as a mechanic for years. Did you see the statement of poping off e-clips?

 

So that's the reason I'm going to try your design and and test it. Buy you a beer some day. I'll replace the e-clips. I'll take photos and post.

 

Hawk,

One last question, does it work on rifles?

 

Thanks -

Frosty

 

They work on the rifles the same way.

[Twinsen 86]

What you should do is use the proper size of hitch pin.

 

Which is? And they're sold where? And OMG I LOVE THOSE THINGS.

You should probably read the whole thread. I even included a picture in this post. They are very hard to get - you must find a hardware store. Any hardware store. China-mart may even sell them. Take a pivot pin with you to get the right size, but off the top of my head, 3/16 hitch pins should do it.

 

You do realize that I asked you the size and where they are sold and you had not said the size or where they could be found, right? I couldn't deduce either of those from your picture, as I see no ruler nor hardware store in the picture. Thanks for the good old insult followed by information. The information part will actually be very useful, thanks.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Thats interesting. I was planning on getting a couple but guess Ill doublecheck with them first. Here's what is posted on the Krebs website right under their retainer piece:

 

NOTE: Orders containing only trigger pin retaining plates will be shipped USPS Priority Mail at a flat rate of $6.00. Please select the UPS Ground shipping option. Shipping costs will be adjusted prior to shipment.

 

HarvKY

 

Well, when I ordered mine, it was $10, that was a few months ago; thought a $9 mark-up on shipping was a bit ridiculous, especially when the post man will just pick-up that kind of package. If it was shipped priority mail that may have been acceptable, but I just felt ripped off. When I got the package, I thought, "WTF is this an eBay seller?!? F* these guys!"

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=34652

[nalioth 405]

What you should do is use the proper size of hitch pin.

 

Which is? And they're sold where? And OMG I LOVE THOSE THINGS.

You should probably read the whole thread. I even included a picture in this post. They are very hard to get - you must find a hardware store. Any hardware store. China-mart may even sell them. Take a pivot pin with you to get the right size, but off the top of my head, 3/16 hitch pins should do it.

 

You do realize that I asked you the size and where they are sold and you had not said the size or where they could be found, right? I couldn't deduce either of those from your picture, as I see no ruler nor hardware store in the picture. Thanks for the good old insult followed by information. The information part will actually be very useful, thanks.

I've provided this information quite a few times here, already.

[Gunfixr 76]

The pics that Fluid Power supplied look very similar to what I do, installed. I just slide the wire under the trigger pin, and over the hammer pin. I have yet to have one come off, whether during a range session or 3-gun competition, even at an all shotgun match.

 

Anyway, here's the pic of my modified wire, two angles, next to a stock wire:

 

[David Mark 2,452]

Thanks again to all those who responded.

Especially those in included photo's!

I decided to go with the shepherds crook for now.

 

I have come to the realization that this weapons platform

is designed to be maintained and repaired easily (ie. in the field)

and there are several ways to achieve the same results (a functioning gun).

Although I am sure there are some techniques that are superior to others.

 

I hope you gentleman will not mind my periodic questions once the weather changes and I am ready to begin my restoration.

 

My best wishes to all at this forum.