Saiga Contract Status?

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

Not to long ago their was a debate raging in the firearms community. .308 Winchester AK's hit the market and the two competitors were our own beloved Saiga Rifles and the vaunted VEPR rifle series. Both came not only in .308, but in 30 Combloc and .223 Remington. This debate managed to drown out the cries of M1A and AR-10 owners, lost behind a wall of economic and fun rifles made in Russia. You can still find most of the old battleground threads with a google search of "Saiga vs VEPR".

 

Today however it seems that by default, the Saiga won the competition. We'd like to say it was the Saiga's toughness, accuracy, thicker barrels, or better price, but the reality is that the VEPR had us beat at every turn in every single category. Both were AK pattern rifles at the core, but the VEPR even surpassed its design with the introduction of the "Super VEPR", which had a more accessible safety and a one-piece stock that took the weight off the barrel, adding to the VEPR's already mind-blowing accuracy. Under 3" groups with an AK? The VEPR started that.

 

But in the end, the Saiga won. Better prices? No, the reality is the VEPR is no longer imported. Apparently the contract ran out and no one has been able to import them on the scale or in the speed required by MOLOT. A quick jump to Gunsnet will show you just how the VEPR has died. Atlantic Firearms apparently tried importing them, but no word on what came of it.

 

So the VEPR lost, the Saiga won. But now we've got another looming problem. Remember a few years ago when European-American Armory was the importer of the Saiga? Sooner or later RAA's contract is going to expire. Queries to RAA haven't been answered yet, and its been a few days. Does anyone, anyone at all have any information on RAA's contract with Izhmash for the Saiga series? It was the sudden disappearance that really killed the VEPR here in the states, so when will Saiga's start becoming scarce?

[cvasqu03 21]

Ah yes, I remember the bad days when all the Saigas had dried out and we were waiting for the new RRA imports to finally show up.

 

Come to think about it things weren't all that different from today, though for obviously different reasons.

[Bvamp 604]

The contract is renewed every year. I dont expect to see them dry up any time soon.

[t165 30]

Phew! Had me scared there for a moment Paladin_Hammer. Thanks for the emotional save Bvamp!

[sudaevpps43 31]

The rumor I heard was that Molot is now owned by Izhmash, so in effect the Saiga and Vepr lines of rifles are now both products of Izhmash, and the reason Vepr rifles aren't being exported from Russia to the U.S. anymore is because Izhmash doesn't want their own products competing against eachother, so now they are exporting just the Saiga line to the U.S. (at least that's the rumor I heard anyway).

 

Where the Vepr is concerned, I do agree it is a very good AK pattern rifle, but whether it is a better AK rifle than the Saiga really depends on your criteria. Most agreed that the Vepr had a better level of fit and finish than the Saiga, but aside from aesthetics and a bit better accuracy, personally (and this is just my opinion of course) I think the Saiga is better. First of all the Saiga is significantly lighter. The thicker RPK type receiver the Vepr uses may give it an edge in accuracy over the Saiga, but it also makes the Vepr about 1.5 lbs heavier compared to a Saiga chambered in the same cartridge and with the same length barrel. Also, the Vepr can't take standard fixed AK buttstocks out of the box like most versions of the Saiga can, nor could a Vepr even take standard fixed RPK buttstocks because of its slant receiver (a design feature I never understood). This is a signicant disadvantage to those who wanted to convert or even just install a different length buttstock, since its much easier to find AK buttstocks than the proprietary buttstock type the Vepr used. Finally of course Veprs were more expensive than Saigas. So unless a shooter wanted a nicer finish out of the box, and every last bit of accuracy they could get, and was willing to pay more, the Saiga was just a better deal. Now for those for whom finish and accuracy are of utmost importance, and weight and cost were only minor concerns, then yes for them I could see why a Vepr would be more appealing than a Saiga. But overall the Saiga was a better choice IMHO.

 

As for the Super Vepr, yes it had better ergonomics for the safety and was undoubtedly one of the most accurate out of the box AK type rifles ever built, but while it amplified the main strength of the Vepr (accuracy), it also amplified its drawbacks (even more expensive than the regular Vepr, and with even more non-standard AK parts thanks to its proprietary one-piece stock design and proprietary trigger group). The Super Vepr was the Saiga 100 of its day, an AK pattern rifle that tried to not be an AK, and so ended up appealing to neither AK fans, nor to those outside of the AK community who already had rifles like the Remington 7400 and Browning BAR to satisfy their limited demand for politically correct looking self loading hunting rifles.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Frogfoot

[oxyehho 8]

The rumor I heard was that Molot is now owned by Izhmash, so in effect the Saiga and Vepr lines of rifles are now both products of Izhmash, and the reason Vepr rifles aren't being exported from Russia to the U.S. anymore is because Izhmash doesn't want their own products competing against eachother, so now they are exporting just the Saiga line to the U.S. (at least that's the rumor I heard anyway).

 

................

 

Went on Russian sites and read up on that - it turns out Molot was in crisis in 2002 and Izhmash installed their own "Director" (CEO, I think). Clearly Veprs were exported after 2002 with no qualms from Izhmash. Read up some more on the current situation - looks like Molot is in some kind of crisis again - this time it's purely due to the poor state of Russian economy - which we all can relate to. Russian gun owners are also clamoring for Veprs and they are still being made, but clearly there are some serious issues they have to work through - apparently local orders are being screwed up, etc., so export is clearly a far more difficult thing for them to work through.

I mean come on - maybe their export guys are binge drinking - who knows