TAPCO Gas Piston Install?

[Fbuckshot 1]

New to the forum and Saiga 12s. I'm sure the question has been addressed many times, but I can't find a thread. I don't want to break my new gun, so I'll ask the question.

 

How do you install the darn thing? Looks like I need to drill out the dimples on the bolt carrier to remove the factory part. But, if I do that, how do I keep the TAPCO part in place? Drill and tap?

 

I'd appreciate any links or advice for a DIY install.

 

Thanks.

[Superhawk138 202]

New to the forum and Saiga 12s. I'm sure the question has been addressed many times, but I can't find a thread. I don't want to break my new gun, so I'll ask the question.

 

How do you install the darn thing? Looks like I need to drill out the dimples on the bolt carrier to remove the factory part. But, if I do that, how do I keep the TAPCO part in place? Drill and tap?

 

I'd appreciate any links or advice for a DIY install.

 

Thanks.

On the saiga shotguns ONLY the sliding puck is considered the gas piston. The standard gas piston as in the rifles is just considered to be part of the bolt carrier on the shotguns. Chaos and KingArmory both make a quality gas piston.

[Fbuckshot 1]

Thanks Superhawk, I understand that. Just used the product's brand and product name 'cause I don't know what else to call it. Bolt carrier forward assembly maybe?

 

Any way, I've got the Chaos gas piston (puck) installed, along with a Surefire Gen I forearm. "The Boss" muzzle brake, TAPCO M4 stock, reduced power recoil and main spring, and Gasfixer plug are all in bound.

 

BUT, I've got this TAPCO part and I can't return it. So I'm looking for install advise.

[nalioth 405]

Thanks Superhawk, I understand that. Just used the product's brand and product name 'cause I don't know what else to call it. Bolt carrier forward assembly maybe?

 

Any way, I've got the Chaos gas piston (puck) installed, along with a Surefire Gen I forearm. "The Boss" muzzle brake, TAPCO M4 stock, reduced power recoil and main spring, and Gasfixer plug are all in bound.

 

BUT, I've got this TAPCO part and I can't return it. So I'm looking for install advise.

The Russian part is far superior. The 922r laws are assnine in having us replace superior parts for substandard ones.

 

Use the Tapco part as a paperweight to remind you to do your homework before spending money.

[Fbuckshot 1]

Thanks Nalioth, couldn't agree more about 922r laws. Did lots of research before I spent my hard earned money, I always do. As usual, I found lot's of conflicting opinions and advice. Seemed like the majority opinion regarding the TAPCO part was that it was better. That's why I bought it. Comparing the two, it appears that the TAPCO part has a superior finish. Can't determine if the material is vastly different, but it appears they're both stainless steel.

 

Why do you favor the factory part and slam the TAPCO one?

 

I'm still interested in DIY intall insturctions too.

[nalioth 405]

Thanks Nalioth, couldn't agree more about 922r laws. Did lots of research before I spent my hard earned money, I always do. As usual, I found lot's of conflicting opinions and advice. Seemed like the majority opinion regarding the TAPCO part was that it was better. That's why I bought it. Comparing the two, it appears that the TAPCO part has a superior finish. Can't determine if the material is vastly different, but it appears they're both stainless steel.

 

Why do you favor the factory part and slam the TAPCO one?

 

I'm still interested in DIY intall insturctions too.

Well, first of all, let's figure out what we're talking about.

 

This is the countable "gas piston":

 

This is the "let's fleece the ignorant with this part that has no contact with any gas whatsoever" Tapco bolt carrier extension thingy:

 

Which one do you have?

[Fbuckshot 1]

It's the "Tapco bolt carrier extension thingy" I'm trying to install. I've already put the countable "gas piston" from Chaos in the gun.

[sKott 26]

Mama always said "If it aint broke, don't fix it".

 

If I were you I'd list it on Gunbroker as an "Ultra Rare Bolt Carrier Extension for the Saiga 12"

I bet you could get $1299 for it.

[nalioth 405]

It's the "Tapco bolt carrier extension thingy" I'm trying to install. I've already put the countable "gas piston" from Chaos in the gun.

Paperweight or hood ornament.

 

Leave the Saiga alone.

[Fbuckshot 1]

My Mom says, "Nothing's ever perfect and everything can stand improvement."

 

Couldn't leave the 10/22 alone, now it shoots 10 shots at 50 yards you can cover with a dime. My modified HK USP .45 has a sweet trigger, eats everything you feed it, and I love the Tru-Glo TFO sights I installed. The Rem 700's trigger is now right at 3 lbs and with my reloads shoots MOA, a little better now and again. The T/C ProHunter rings the 350 yard gong every time I pull the trigger. The Mossberg 835 has 3 different barrrel, two different forearms, and two different stocks. I hunt upland game, make a few changes to hunt deer with a rifled barrel and optic, or change it's barrel/forearm and take it out to the local Three Gun with the Knoxx Recoil stock. I've modified my competition and CCW Glocks for lighter, crisper, trigger pull, and increased realibility, they run like scalded dogs and are more accurate the NIB guns. It's not likely that the Saiga will remain virgin, as a matter of fact, changes have already been made.

 

Sure wish we could talk about how to install that part.

[nalioth 405]

My Mom says, "Nothing's ever perfect and everything can stand improvement."

 

Couldn't leave the 10/22 alone, now it shoots 10 shots at 50 yards you can cover with a dime. My modified HK USP .45 has a sweet trigger, eats everything you feed it, and I love the Tru-Glo TFO sights I installed. The Rem 700's trigger is now right at 3 lbs and with my reloads shoots MOA, a little better now and again. The T/C ProHunter rings the 350 yard gong every time I pull the trigger. The Mossberg 835 has 3 different barrrel, two different forearms, and two different stocks. I hunt upland game, make a few changes to hunt deer with a rifled barrel and optic, or change it's barrel/forearm and take it out to the local Three Gun with the Knoxx Recoil stock. I've modified my competition and CCW Glocks for lighter, crisper, trigger pull, and increased realibility, they run like scalded dogs and are more accurate the NIB guns. It's not likely that the Saiga will remain virgin, as a matter of fact, changes have already been made.

 

Sure wish we could talk about how to install that part.

I don't have any issues with making improvements to firearms.

 

Installing the Tapco thingy is not going to improve anything.

 

 

If you must continue, the same instructions for replacing the rifle pistons will work here.

[Fbuckshot 1]

Found some info over at AR15.COM. Looks like I need to center punch the dimples, drill them out, drive out a pin, and remove the old part. Then, screw in the new part, drill a hole through it, drive in a new pin, peen it over, then file everything smooth.

 

It'd be nice if the manufacturer or the distributor made it clean that the part takes this level of work for proper installation. Oh well, live and learn.

[Etek 32]

Dude,

 

Do you have a SAIGA 12 bolt carrier piston or an AK piston? If it's an AK piston IT WILL NOT WORK ON A SAIGA 12!

 

Sell the damn thing and put it behind you as a lesson learned.

 

Yet I find it hard to believe you claim to have fine tuned a list of weapons but you not only bought a part that (probably) won't even fit your gun but you can't figure out how to install it.

 

I'm not trying to be an A-hole but Jeez!

Edited April 5, 2009 by Etek

[Fbuckshot 1]

[nalioth 405]

Fbuckshot, to cut through all the home decoration tips:

 

The tapco bolt carrier extenstion thingy will not gain you anything in either the "performance" or "922r satisfaction" categories. If you replace it, your bolt carrier will have been weakened to some extent.

 

In my opinion, Tapco should be hung by the testicles for marketing that part as a "922r satisfying part", because it's not.

 

[madmax4x4 68]

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...il?sfs=e08ae75b

 

Didn't understand how it is listed all over as a 922 saiga 12 part

[nalioth 405]

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...il?sfs=e08ae75b

 

Didn't understand how it is listed all over as a 922 saiga 12 part

Preying on the ignorant is a millenia old sales technique.

 

In this case, with a potential federal felony as a result of said ignorance, it just ain't funny.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Fbuckshot, it is your gun, do what you want with it; I think overall people are saying that you're not going to get any improvement using that part. You stated you did your research, but you still bought it for some reason, you didn't site any references which said something like, "The best modification for the S12 is to spend your money on this Tapco part." And I'm fairly certain you haven't read anything like that here, I've read many many posts here and haven't seen one which recommends that modification. Most of the early on posts were people kind of joking around with you, note the smiley face... Etek's comment was critical and I will get into that shortly.

 

Stating that some people here are just skimming your posts or not reading them is kind of insulting. I read the entire thread and once the part you actually had was cleared up, people offered you some good advice. Frankly, the piston listed on Tapco site clearly reads Saiga Gas Piston, Rifle. Which is where I believe Etek's frustration stemmed from, again, if you had done your research and have the average intelligence and common sense you claim, you probably should have noticed the rifle part. The previous post about how to remove the Tapco part was pretty useless, because doing so won't improve performance; it could actually hurt you, because it is the wrong part, thus providing that advice could fuck someone up, which no one wants.

 

People here don't assume newbies are stupid, but when a newbie continues on about the same thing, even after getting plenty of advice, it leads to much annoyance; which leads to a change of tone from joking-around to the proverbial bitch-slap. Do I think you're stupid? No, I think you made a mistake, everyone makes mistakes. I've made plenty of mistakes by not reading things thoroughly, but when I get advice contrary to what I thought I read, especially from an expert, I go back and try to figure out if I'm wrong or they're wrong... and usually it turns out I'm wrong. Then sometimes I go back and post, "Damn, I was wrong, thanks for the great advice!"

 

Generally, people here are critical of the big name manufacturers, like Tapco, because they don't provide any support to our community, aside from offering parts. The people listed in the Vendor section here actually pay to help the forum and do runs of extremely high quality parts at reasonable prices. These vendors also have been known to make literally hundreds and sometimes thousands of posts here, to further support the community.

 

There are a dozen posts here about how to modify firearms which have issues, search around for the dreaded term "vodka special". If you had already done your research, which you state you did, you would already know this. The first thing you should do is check the the number of ports your shotty has, two ports generally means you're going to have issues, if you don't know what I mean by ports, it gets back to doing research.

 

In closing, I think you are unjustified in feeling wronged, because you got your hand slapped; I think my analysis of this thread makes this pretty clear.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Back when I did my first S-12 conversion, that "extension thingy" part was referred to as the gas piston, and the common opinions on here were that it was a counted part. Tapco didn't have the right size though, and not many people had actually done an S-12 conversion where they used so much original imported AK furniture that they actually needed another compliance part enough to replace the "piston".

Tromix was the first to come out with a true replacement piston, but before that I went to 'hotbarrel' and paid him to make me an exact replica of my S-12 "extension", which I installed in my bolt carrier. Later on when we started referring to the puck as the real gas piston, I got one from Tromix just to be sure.

 

The dude asked a simple question. "How do I replace this particular part?"

 

 

Fbuckshot you need to drill out the dimples on both sides til you start getting into the inner part (extension, piston..whatever). At that point you can put it in a vice and unscrew it. There is no pin in the middle to drill out like on a typical AK piston. When you install the new one make sure you get it the same overall length as the part you took out and the bolt carrier. Then follow those instructions you read about pinning and peening. Then grind or sand and polish smooth.

[madmax4x4 68]

Fbuckshot, it is your gun, do what you want with it; I think overall people are saying that you're not going to get any improvement using that part. You stated you did your research, but you still bought it for some reason, you didn't site any references which said something like, "The best modification for the S12 is to spend your money on this Tapco part." And I'm fairly certain you haven't read anything like that here, I've read many many posts here and haven't seen one which recommends that modification. Most of the early on posts were people kind of joking around with you, note the smiley face... Etek's comment was critical and I will get into that shortly.

 

Stating that some people here are just skimming your posts or not reading them is kind of insulting. I read the entire thread and once the part you actually had was cleared up, people offered you some good advice. Frankly, the piston listed on Tapco site clearly reads Saiga Gas Piston, Rifle. Which is where I believe Etek's frustration stemmed from, again, if you had done your research and have the average intelligence and common sense you claim, you probably should have noticed the rifle part. The previous post about how to remove the Tapco part was pretty useless, because doing so won't improve performance; it could actually hurt you, because it is the wrong part, thus providing that advice could fuck someone up, which no one wants.

 

People here don't assume newbies are stupid, but when a newbie continues on about the same thing, even after getting plenty of advice, it leads to much annoyance; which leads to a change of tone from joking-around to the proverbial bitch-slap. Do I think you're stupid? No, I think you made a mistake, everyone makes mistakes. I've made plenty of mistakes by not reading things thoroughly, but when I get advice contrary to what I thought I read, especially from an expert, I go back and try to figure out if I'm wrong or they're wrong... and usually it turns out I'm wrong. Then sometimes I go back and post, "Damn, I was wrong, thanks for the great advice!"

 

Generally, people here are critical of the big name manufacturers, like Tapco, because they don't provide any support to our community, aside from offering parts. The people listed in the Vendor section here actually pay to help the forum and do runs of extremely high quality parts at reasonable prices. These vendors also have been known to make literally hundreds and sometimes thousands of posts here, to further support the community.

 

There are a dozen posts here about how to modify firearms which have issues, search around for the dreaded term "vodka special". If you had already done your research, which you state you did, you would already know this. The first thing you should do is check the the number of ports your shotty has, two ports generally means you're going to have issues, if you don't know what I mean by ports, it gets back to doing research.

 

In closing, I think you are unjustified in feeling wronged, because you got your hand slapped; I think my analysis of this thread makes this pretty clear.

the piston listed on Tapco site clearly reads Saiga Gas Piston, Rifle

Look again http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=SAG0701SINGLE

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...il?sfs=e08ae75b

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

What about this one? It clearly reads on the package that it's for S-12 & S-20....

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...il?sfs=e08ae75b

 

Whether or not it's a countable part isn't that important is it? (as long as he ALSO gets a Tromix or other true S-12 "gas piston")

I have both, they are both marked USA, so I'm set, no matter what some uninformed LEO tries to say.

[rbthntr64 21]

Edited April 6, 2009 by rbthntr64

[7.62x39 0]

On the saiga shotguns ONLY the sliding puck is considered the gas piston. The standard gas piston as in the rifles is just considered to be part of the bolt carrier on the shotguns.

 

At least that's what we're ASSUMING, since the ATF has never issued a definitive answer on what they consider to be the piston. I know that logically the puck would be considered the piston. But when dealing with the ATF you can throw logic right out the window.

The part that makes me wonder, is why the carrier extension (which is the countable part in rifles) is not counted as an op rod (as in a SKS) if it is not counted as the piston. I avoided the whole mess by using a US made forearm and PG along with the FCG to give me enough countable parts.

Edited April 6, 2009 by 7.62x39

[Saleig 0]

Back when I did my first S-12 conversion, that "extension thingy" part was referred to as the gas piston, and the common opinions on here were that it was a counted part. Tapco didn't have the right size though, and not many people had actually done an S-12 conversion where they used so much original imported AK furniture that they actually needed another compliance part enough to replace the "piston".

Tromix was the first to come out with a true replacement piston, but before that I went to 'hotbarrel' and paid him to make me an exact replica of my S-12 "extension", which I installed in my bolt carrier. Later on when we started referring to the puck as the real gas piston, I got one from Tromix just to be sure.

 

The dude asked a simple question. "How do I replace this particular part?"

 

 

Fbuckshot you need to drill out the dimples on both sides til you start getting into the inner part (extension, piston..whatever). At that point you can put it in a vice and unscrew it. There is no pin in the middle to drill out like on a typical AK piston. When you install the new one make sure you get it the same overall length as the part you took out and the bolt carrier. Then follow those instructions you read about pinning and peening. Then grind or sand and polish smooth.

 

 

Cobra your comments are appreciated. I too was considering purchasing this part and wondered how it was installed. If it was easy to install and actually made some sort of difference in performance I think I would buy it, but since I already have enough US parts I don't need it and it sounds like more hassle than its actually worth. I am glad this forum exists as I might have purchased this part thinking it was necessary and take 5 minutes to install and instead be surprised that I have to drill, pin, peen, grind, sand, curse...sweat, curse some more and end up denting or breaking the damn thing.

 

I don't like tinkering too much and would rather just go shooting. My skill with hand tools is like a monkey trying to pro-create with a football.. so thanks to you and all as you saved me some frustration and money here.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Saleig

[GEFLAW 0]

New to the forum and Saiga 12s. I'm sure the question has been addressed many times, but I can't find a thread. I don't want to break my new gun, so I'll ask the question.

 

How do you install the darn thing? Looks like I need to drill out the dimples on the bolt carrier to remove the factory part. But, if I do that, how do I keep the TAPCO part in place? Drill and tap?

 

I'd appreciate any links or advice for a DIY install.

 

Thanks.

OK, at the risk of abuse... I unscrewed my factory "thingy on end of bolt carrier" and screwed in the tapco one. (I did not have to drill anything out) However, my factory thingy is now mangled. The Tapco one worked much more reliably than the factory for about 200 rounds and then it started FTE. I looked in and the TAPCO part has warped. Stupid question is... did this happen because I put the part in wrong or because the part is crap? If I just forced the old one out, and then screwed the new one in (used loc-tite) did that cause the issues?

 

Thanks

[nalioth 405]

OK, at the risk of abuse... I unscrewed my factory "thingy on end of bolt carrier" and screwed in the tapco one. (I did not have to drill anything out) However, my factory thingy is now mangled. The Tapco one worked much more reliably than the factory for about 200 rounds and then it started FTE. I looked in and the TAPCO part has warped. Stupid question is... did this happen because I put the part in wrong or because the part is crap? If I just forced the old one out, and then screwed the new one in (used loc-tite) did that cause the issues?

 

Thanks

They're not known as "CRAPCO" for nothing.

 

Contact Hotbarrel over at Gunco, and he can make you a new US made one (that won't warp).

 

 

The rest of you guys - this part isn't needed for compliance. It's not a piston (it never sees any form of gas pressure). It's a cruel joke purveyed by Tapco. Please leave your Saigas alone in this regard.

Edited April 16, 2009 by nalioth

[gpqueen 545]

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...il?sfs=e08ae75b

 

Didn't understand how it is listed all over as a 922 saiga 12 part

Preying on the ignorant is a millenia old sales technique.

 

In this case, with a potential federal felony as a result of said ignorance, it just ain't funny.

I use the manufacture product description when I list an item for sale. They have changed their description so it does not say 922 compliant now.

I was not Preying on the ignorant. I do not do business that way.

I have pulled them for my website. No reason to change this part if does not count.

 

Greg

[Nailbomb 10,221]

OK, at the risk of abuse... I unscrewed my factory "thingy on end of bolt carrier" and screwed in the tapco one. (I did not have to drill anything out) However, my factory thingy is now mangled. The Tapco one worked much more reliably than the factory for about 200 rounds and then it started FTE. I looked in and the TAPCO part has warped. Stupid question is... did this happen because I put the part in wrong or because the part is crap? If I just forced the old one out, and then screwed the new one in (used loc-tite) did that cause the issues?

 

Thanks

Good stuff, I WAS going to replace mine just for the sake of having another american made part.

 

cancel that.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I don't have any issues with making improvements to firearms.

 

Installing the Tapco thingy is not going to improve anything.

 

 

If you must continue, the same instructions for replacing the rifle pistons will work here.

Sometimes its not the gun that has to improve but the user. The more i change, the better i understand the weapon.

 

that being said I would still like to change out the "operating rod"

[GEFLAW 0]

I don't have any issues with making improvements to firearms.

 

Installing the Tapco thingy is not going to improve anything.

 

 

If you must continue, the same instructions for replacing the rifle pistons will work here.

Sometimes its not the gun that has to improve but the user. The more i change, the better i understand the weapon.

 

that being said I would still like to change out the "operating rod"

I called carolinashootersupply.com and was told that they have another guy who bought 3 of the tapco operating rods and all three of his warped. I called tapco and they said this was news to them. I am sending in my rod to tapco and they say they will send me a new one. I am stuck with tapco as my factory rod is mangled. However, I must say that prior to the warpoing, it did improve my gun. Hopefully the new rod will work fine.