Leapers rail

[Bvamp 604]

hey frustrated in cali - my friend Mr Cam isnt emphasizing anything, hes just insulted, is all.

 

I agree with your logic, as well.

 

 

For the buck, the leapers prodcut is quite good, but also, for the buck, the chaos product is quite good as well. Do you want a toy or a weapon/ Ill sell you both, if you want them.....

 

the leapers rail is good for sport.....the CHAOS rail is good for duty......like i said, you get what you pay for.....

 

the leapers rail is not crap, but the CHAOS rail is not overcharged. weigh your needs, and go with it. That is my advice, and I am not lying to you guys. Keep in mind, CGW carries both products. Mr Cam's will continue to go on duty weapons, however. Man, what a nice part, its worth the extra dollars, honestly......IF you want something affordable, DO GO with the leapers part. Its good for what it is. And I stand by that as well.

[52brandon 0]

hey frustrated in cali - my friend Mr Cam isnt emphasizing anything, hes just insulted, is all.

 

I agree with your logic, as well.

 

 

For the buck, the leapers prodcut is quite good, but also, for the buck, the chaos product is quite good as well. Do you want a toy or a weapon/ Ill sell you both, if you want them.....

 

the leapers rail is good for sport.....the CHAOS rail is good for duty......like i said, you get what you pay for.....

 

the leapers rail is not crap, but the CHAOS rail is not overcharged. weigh your needs, and go with it. That is my advice, and I am not lying to you guys. Keep in mind, CGW carries both products. Mr Cam's will continue to go on duty weapons, however. Man, what a nice part, its worth the extra dollars, honestly......IF you want something affordable, DO GO with the leapers part. Its good for what it is. And I stand by that as well.

great post. Almost exactly my views. For my purposes (shooting paper and watermelons) the leapers fits my bill

[Bvamp 604]

whichever way you wish to go, my friend. Its not my choice.

[armyjnd 2]

I own a chaos rail and would not trade it for anything. The first thing I siad when I got it out of the box was holy shit I can't beleive how nice this is. mr hadley if you would make a tri rail hand grip for an fs2000 I would buy it in a second even if it did cost 100 dollars more than the competion and I am no way rich at all E/5 pay is good but not great. I own a utg for my ak and for the money it is good but my ak is also just for having fun. Save your money and go chaos.

 

I own a chaos rail and would not trade it for anything. The first thing I siad when I got it out of the box was holy shit I can't beleive how nice this is. mr hadley if you would make a tri rail hand grip for an fs2000 I would buy it in a second even if it did cost 100 dollars more than the competion and I am no way rich at all E/5 pay is good but not great. I own a utg for my ak and for the money it is good but my ak is also just for having fun. Save your money and go chaos.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

BTW with all this flap about U.S. vs China regarding quality, no one has mentioned anything about the quality of the SGM plastic rails which are the cheapest by far. Many on the picture thread have that "plastic" rail and stand behind it. So is the Leapers so called "aircraft" grade Chinese "crap" aluminum worse than the U.S. made SGM Dupont plastic?

No one is mounting a optic on a SGM, that is by far the biggest difference. For that matter I own and like my SGM, but I wasn't happy with it untill i chopped it down and vented it. My personal preference is not for a VFG, so i liked the back grip to the SGM, and really all i use the rails for is a sling mount and occasionaly a cheap flashlight.

 

If i was going to get serious about wanting a good lazer sight, and a permanently mounted optic my choice would be simple.

[52brandon 0]

After the pot metal post I decided to e-mail leapers to clarify exactly what it was. The response I got back is that it is 6061. For what that's worth...

[vintagedude88 16]

Does anyone know the true delivery of this rail? Its been two weeks since I placed my order and I still don't see any confirmation about shipping nor has my account been billed for it. If this thing goes out to the end of May I'm just gonna cancel my order and move on to something else.

[Patriot12 11]

Does anyone know the true delivery of this rail? Its been two weeks since I placed my order and I still don't see any confirmation about shipping nor has my account been billed for it. If this thing goes out to the end of May I'm just gonna cancel my order and move on to something else.

When will the Chaos rails be available? That might be a better alternative for you.

[vintagedude88 16]

Okay, I just called David's Collectables and they told me that the reason they didn't ship the 2nd week of April was that Leapers decided to hole shipment for "last minute touch-ups". What is that suppose to mean? I asked if there will be any quality issues on this first batch as a result of these "touch-ups" and of course they assured me that ther won't. I'll believe it when I see it. So now they assured me delivery by the end of April. Stay tuned.

 

Guys, no need to krap on this or that. I know there's a lot of you guys out there that are in the service and of course you demand the best so that it will perfom above and beyond in your environment. However keep in mind that not all of us guys are looking to go into combat like you so we will not be seeing the situation you have seen. Besides if you guys did your job, and I hope you guys did, us civi's would never have to see that kind of situation ever. To all you service guys, your efforts are well respected and appreciated.

 

And if I don't get my Leapers rail anytime soon, I'm gonna ask that you guys go over there to Leapers with your Chaos rail equiped S12 and demand immediate delivery of my Leapers rail!!!! Hah See, that combat stuff is good for something, right?

Edited April 22, 2009 by FrustratedInCali

[vintagedude88 16]

Does anyone know the true delivery of this rail? Its been two weeks since I placed my order and I still don't see any confirmation about shipping nor has my account been billed for it. If this thing goes out to the end of May I'm just gonna cancel my order and move on to something else.

When will the Chaos rails be available? That might be a better alternative for you.

 

Its that or wait until DPH comes out with the top rail to go with its bottom tri-rail. I was thinking about going with the SGM rail with an Ultimak up top. We'll see. Whether I cancel or take delivery, I'm sure I'll have no problem finding a buyer if I am not satisfied with the Leapers rail.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Here's a couple other options that will be available before long: MAA quad-rail, MAA tri-rail.

 

Personally I'm leaning toward a tri-rail, (either MAA or Chaos), so I can use it with a Dinzag front sight block, (short). It's a shotgun, so iron sights are more important to me than a top rail. I figure on using a Russian Kobra red dot mounted to the receiver side-mount.

 

The fact that these products are not yet available is not a concern of mine.. since my S-12 is still on the way to CGW for warranty work anyway.

[KROSS FA 14]

If you're shopping Saiga 12 Tri-Rails, consider our KROSS FL Tri-Rail. Pre-Orders are now open with free shipping on all PRE-ORDERS through June 1, 2009.

 

Check out our webpage for more details.

 

Thanks!

 

Zach

KROSS FA

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

^ Thanks, Zach.

 

Your products look good, and the price on that tri-rail is nice.

 

Waiting till the end of July could be difficult, though.

[Patriot12 11]

If you're shopping Saiga 12 Tri-Rails, consider our KROSS FL Tri-Rail. Pre-Orders are now open with free shipping on all PRE-ORDERS through June 1, 2009.

 

Check out our webpage for more details.

 

Thanks!

 

Zach

KROSS FA

KROSS FA, I have not seen you before. Have you seen the proposed critical replacement parts thread? Could you make any of those parts?

[KROSS FA 14]

Post-apocalyptic, thanks for the compliments. Waiting is always the toughest part

 

Patriot12, We're currently focusing primarily on getting our hand guards produced and out but we'll definitely look into some of those other parts in the future. If there is a need for it, we will do everything we can to bring it to market and enhance your firearms experience

 

Zach

KROSS FA

[waffles 0]

any of these rails trickling in? Curious to see how they look.

[Patriot12 11]

Post-apocalyptic, thanks for the compliments. Waiting is always the toughest part

 

Patriot12, We're currently focusing primarily on getting our hand guards produced and out but we'll definitely look into some of those other parts in the future. If there is a need for it, we will do everything we can to bring it to market and enhance your firearms experience

 

Zach

KROSS FA

Could you make any of the major components for a saiga 12 clone?

[Codebrown 1]

The Leaper's Rail I looked at at the SHOT Show seemed like a pretty decent deal for $60 - they should have had one mounted on a gun. I wouldn't call them "Crap."

 

I've got Knight's and YHM rails mostly on my AR's - my kid has a Leaper's rail on his .22, what he saved payed for most of the upper. Their AK rails seem to hold up well, too.

 

So, the question is, if you got a screaming deal on a girl's bike, would you ride it around? If you're hung up on style, probably not. If you need to get from point A to point B, it may be better than walking.

[Bvamp 604]

The Leaper's Rail I looked at at the SHOT Show seemed like a pretty decent deal for $60 - they should have had one mounted on a gun. I wouldn't call them "Crap."

 

I've got Knight's and YHM rails mostly on my AR's - my kid has a Leaper's rail on his .22, what he saved payed for most of the upper. Their AK rails seem to hold up well, too.

 

So, the question is, if you got a screaming deal on a girl's bike, would you ride it around? If you're hung up on style, probably not. If you need to get from point A to point B, it may be better than walking.

 

I was going to ask them if they could do just that, and bring one over to the RAAC booth and show it mounted over there. There were too many other matters to discuss, so I skipped that thought.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I can understand that point, I look at it a little differently.

 

We arn't looking for something to get us back and forth from work here. Most gun owners have more than one gun, so the argument would be more like if you had a 1/2 dozen bikes would you want to ride the girl bike. And I don't think thats fair to Leapers to say they are a girl bike. so lets try this another way.

 

If you are going to rely on anything mounted to those rails for hunting, sport, competition, or if this is a gun you bring to work with you I believe you would be better suited with camerons rail setup.

 

If this gun is just a range toy to you, and/or you are just going for a look on a budget, then i'm sure you will enjoy the savings that leapers will offer you.

 

I'm sure your son finds his rail setup on his 22 to be just fine, but were talking about a gun that broke a (cheap)flashlight from the recoil alone while firing 3" 00 buck. that flashlight was made of aluminum, seemed just fine untill it broke and i bet it would have been just fine on your sons 22.

[Codebrown 1]

I can understand that point, I look at it a little differently.

 

We arn't looking for something to get us back and forth from work here. Most gun owners have more than one gun, so the argument would be more like if you had a 1/2 dozen bikes would you want to ride the girl bike. And I don't think thats fair to Leapers to say they are a girl bike. so lets try this another way.

 

If you are going to rely on anything mounted to those rails for hunting, sport, competition, or if this is a gun you bring to work with you I believe you would be better suited with camerons rail setup.

 

If this gun is just a range toy to you, and/or you are just going for a look on a budget, then i'm sure you will enjoy the savings that leapers will offer you.

 

I'm sure your son finds his rail setup on his 22 to be just fine, but were talking about a gun that broke a (cheap)flashlight from the recoil alone while firing 3" 00 buck. that flashlight was made of aluminum, seemed just fine untill it broke and i bet it would have been just fine on your sons 22.

 

Like I said, I wouldn't call them crap - and I used the "girl's bike" analogy instead of the "fat chick" one (they're both fun to ride until your friends catch you) because it seemed less insulting. But let's get to the real point. Most of the "gun guys" I know wouldn't be caught dead pulling their M4 out of the case with a Leaper's rail on it, and not because it won't get the job done - it's because of the sentiment of some folks that their stuff is "airsoft crap" as someone actually posted. Lay your gun on the bench with your KAC M4 rail with some desert tan paint still on it and all scuffed up from hard use, and you'll get "the nod." Same thing with the Leaper's rail will get you a sneer - right or wrong. Try it.

 

It's a status thing. People take pride in their tools - and they should. And the warrior culture hunter-gatherer crowd has a "my spear is better than your spear" and "look at my new sharp rock I made" instinct - that's what makes it fun to get together with the guys - adult "show and tell." But there is nothing wrong with a "daily driver" or "winter beater" approach - and some of my guns that are beat up and I couldn't care less about have actually turned into the ones under/behind the seat(s) I'd probably stake my life on. Hell, I've got a Springfield Armory .45 I think I'm gonna start calling "fat chick!"

 

If Leaper's production pieces are like the demo's they had at the SHOT Show, and the dimensions are in spec for mounting your crap, they'll be just fine. If they were made in the USA by "Joe's Machine and Tool" and cost $100 more, I'm sure they'd be all the shit!

 

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

[vintagedude88 16]

Codebrown - I completely agree with you. Come to think of it why would you need an accessory that has more engineering in it than the gun itself? If there was an American equivalent to the S12, the gun would be scoffed at for its crude manufacturing quality. However, ironically, crudeness is its real beauty.

 

Here's something to be concerned about, delivery is now pushed off to June???????? My pre-order has been in the works since late March. Called Leapers and they confirmed that the first batch is late and is expected in June. CSS also states on their site that delivery is June. So thats it, nothing more till then. Bummer!

[cvhanh20 1,052]

Codebrown - I completely agree with you. Come to think of it why would you need an accessory that has more engineering in it than the gun itself? If there was an American equivalent to the S12, the gun would be scoffed at for its crude manufacturing quality. However, ironically, crudeness is its real beauty.

 

Here's something to be concerned about, delivery is now pushed off to June???????? My pre-order has been in the works since late March. Called Leapers and they confirmed that the first batch is late and is expected in June. CSS also states on their site that delivery is June. So thats it, nothing more till then. Bummer!

What accessory has more engineering in it than the gun? There are no accessories available for this weapon that have more engineering than this weapon itself! With that said, How much engineering went into, say a EOTech holographic weapon sights. You say quote"its crudeness is its real beauty", wrong, The true beauty of this weapon is its simplistic design married with the use of loose tolerances and a wealth of knowledge understanding metal stress to gain the highest out put. To reference a Saiga 12 to a leapers rail in quality is a fucking joke. Just keep one thing in mind, every time you buy this cheap Chinese crap and thats is exactly what it is, your sealing your own fate! You always here people bitch when something they bought cheap breaks, well it was cheap for a reason.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

[Codebrown 1]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

[vbrtrmn 167]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

[Codebrown 1]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

 

 

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

[Deussne 38]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

 

 

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

HEHEH nicely said. I could have not said it any better. You know what, I am ordering me a leapers rail just because no american manufacturer can make me something that I want out of the rail.. And I can bet money on it, that this rail will be good enought for my saiga shotgun.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

Crysler went bankrupt due to the buisness being run poorly. All of the US auto manufacturers were going in a stupid direction and they were being directed to and still will be when and if they resurect. "legacy" is just a cheap excuse that you have bought to blame someone else. Still keep this in the political section, I don't want to hear about how you have a problem with americans being paid a descent wage so you can save a few pennies and then complain about the same problems they face due in part to people like you.

 

There are two things in life you don't go bargain shopping for and thats guns and tattoos, you always get what you pay for. Smart choices yes, informed choices yes, oh i can save a few bucks and this is good enough... not so much.

 

Think of the saiga as imported ore being refined by american hands. its not like your cheap SK tool set they will never be something more than they are : Cheap.

 

as far as the leapers looking like its good enough i refer back to the cheap flashlight. think its different? its not. good accessories need a good foundation.

[Codebrown 1]

Crysler went bankrupt due to the buisness being run poorly. All of the US auto manufacturers were going in a stupid direction and they were being directed to and still will be when and if they resurect. "legacy" is just a cheap excuse that you have bought to blame someone else. Still keep this in the political section, I don't want to hear about how you have a problem with americans being paid a descent wage so you can save a few pennies and then complain about the same problems they face due in part to people like you.

 

There are two things in life you don't go bargain shopping for and thats guns and tattoos, you always get what you pay for. Smart choices yes, informed choices yes, oh i can save a few bucks and this is good enough... not so much.

 

Think of the saiga as imported ore being refined by american hands. its not like your cheap SK tool set they will never be something more than they are : Cheap.

 

as far as the leapers looking like its good enough i refer back to the cheap flashlight. think its different? its not. good accessories need a good foundation.

 

You're right - Chrysler may have been run poorly - but if you think the UAW didn't have a lot to do with them and the rest of the US auto industry going tits up, you're in a fantasy world.

 

"I don't want to hear about how you have a problem with americans being paid a descent wage so you can save a few pennies and then complain about the same problems they face due in part to people like you." What? I think you've jumped to a few conclusions and gotten a little ahead of yourself. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, you being a Marine and all. (No shit - I've worked closely with Marines, the USMC is one of the finest institutions the world has seen).

 

Back to rails for the S12 - looks to me like perhaps the advent of the other rails such as the UTG is a force in the evolution of Cameron's Chaos rail - instead of machined from billet, now it's machined from an extrusion. I'm guessing he thinks that's "good enough," or he wouldn't do it (ask yourself this - why isn't he making it out of TITANIUM?). The end result is lower cost for him and thus the end user. After looking into it, I think I'm going to get on his list for one.

 

I'm not big into tattoo's (I only got one in the Navy, and that was free). I do know a lot about guns. I've got them running the gamut from handmade by a machinist's mate shipboard (a "powerhead") to handmade in Brescia Italy. On that spectrum, I'd say the Saiga is "good enough." If you don't get that, or don't agree, I'm OK with that. But, that "Perfect is the enemy of good" quote has a broad application in life - and I've seen application of that principle save lives. You can think about that, and take it or leave it.

 

As far as SK tools, they may be a lot of things, but they aren't cheap - and they are made in the US.

 

Have a good weekend!

Edited May 8, 2009 by Codebrown