james peek 14 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I am a newbie looking to get a saiga 12 converted professionally . I'm going pro instead of doing it myself, doto the tig welding and refinishing factors. I'm going simple, nothing fancy. However i don't understand some of the conversion mods they advertise on there web site. i have been reading a lot about conversions and all the different options and processes that are involved. i dont understand a few things. 1st, what do they mean by "barrel relieve turned", 2nd, "feed ramp riveted in", 3rd,"Gas block aligned as-required", 4th, "Tune Extractor and Extractor Bbl Relief". Can any one explain these to me. I am trying to get together a list to send in for a quote. please enlighten me. thanks, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yoshi76 0 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I am a newbie looking to get a saiga 12 converted professionally . I'm going pro instead of doing it myself, doto the tig welding and refinishing factors. I'm going simple, nothing fancy. However i don't understand some of the conversion mods they advertise on there web site. i have been reading a lot about conversions and all the different options and processes that are involved. i dont understand a few things. 1st, what do they mean by "barrel relieve turned", 2nd, "feed ramp riveted in", 3rd,"Gas block aligned as-required", 4th, "Tune Extractor and Extractor Bbl Relief". Can any one explain these to me. I am trying to get together a list to send in for a quote. please enlighten me. thanks, 1) Not sure probably nothing you need to be worried about 2) This is for a Saiga rifle not shotgun 3) If your gas vents are blocked or your barrel is overindexed this will align your gas vents in the block. Unless you have an issue with your gas system this is not to be worried about 4) I guess some people require some fine tuning of the extractor and where it ejects. Unless you have FTE or jams you need not worry about this. Give Cadiz Gun Works a try they are a good bunch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 If the letters "AA" are in the business title, run like hell! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 thanks for the info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I haven't seen the "Barrel relief turned", so I'm not sure on that one. The "Feed ramp riveted in" is for the rifles. "Gas block aligned as required" is for the shotguns, as often the ports or the gas block itself are misaligned and blocking off some or most of the ports. This will keep the gun from cycling reliably. "Extractor and extractor relief tuned" is also for the shotguns. With a new S12, you can notice that as the bolt carrier moves forward, just before the bolt stops and the carrier rotates it into breech lock, there is a lot of resistance. If you ease the bolt forward, you will have to push it closed. This is the barrel extractor cutout and extractor. he way it is cut, the extractor is being pushed out quite a bit. It's pretty much not even closed onto the rim of a chambered cartridge. When the gun is fired, as the bolt opens, it relies on the speed of the spring to close the extractor onto the rim to extract the cartridge. Also, the resistance required to close the bolt significantly slows down the forward momentum right when it is needed, to lock the bolt fully on the chambered round. Tuning these eliminates most or all of this resistance, and leaves the ectractor hook engaged with the cartridge rim when the bolt is locked, ready to withdraw the fired case from the chamber, and leaving more of the return energy of the bolt to get the action closed. Basically, they are reliability enhancements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 But whatever you do, don't go with those people who promote various packages including ''our reliability service'' Stay the hell away, seriously. On a side note, why don't you convert it yourself, then send it off later for welding details and refinishing? The conversion isn't hard, it will teach you a lot about your S12 and you will save a decent amount of money doing it. I'm glad I did my own S12 and 7.62x39 rifle myself, but I had no problem sending them off for the welded holes and other stuff I am not able to do on my own. Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 But whatever you do, don't go with those people who promote various packages including ''our reliability service'' Stay the hell away, seriously. On a side note, why don't you convert it yourself, then send it off later for welding details and refinishing? The conversion isn't hard, it will teach you a lot about your S12 and you will save a decent amount of money doing it. I'm glad I did my own S12 and 7.62x39 rifle myself, but I had no problem sending them off for the welded holes and other stuff I am not able to do on my own. Z why is the ''our reliability service'' such a bad thing to advertise. is it these guns tend to break a lot or are they trying to say they do better quality work when they dont, or is it something else? i have put a lot of thought in doing it myself . but i would be buying some parts twice it seems if i do it then send it off later, and i dont have a lot of time to spend on projects although it wouldn't take that much time i think. i have looked at companies like tromix, red jacket firearms, e-tac, and just emailed cadiz gun works. Tromix is backed up. Thats my first choice. Tony referred me to red jacket and i'm just trying to put it all together so i can get a quote. my biggest fear is that, well this parts going to sound weird, i haven't even bought the gun yet. im ready, i just havent worked out the place yet. long story, cant do face to face sell over state line from my friend without ffl "costing to much money". its already cheaper to buy online i just haven't locked down a cheap ffl holder to receive the s12. back to my fear i hope i dont recieve a "vodka special" i will be pissed. i have spent to much time thinking about this. my plan is to break it in then send it off thanks for all the info from all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gothmog 24 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 That "other reliability service" from anyone with "AA" for initials will change your weapon that it may not accept other popular magazines. HUZZAH!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Why cant people use the actual name of a company when they have something negative to say. example "AA". is there a slander policy on this forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Why cant people use the actual name of a company when they have something negative to say. example "AA". is there a slander policy on this forum. I realize you are new, and I do not mean this as any sort of disrespect. Go do a search because frankly, some of us are tired of dealing with the unscrupulous underbelly of the firearm world....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Why cant people use the actual name of a company when they have something negative to say. example "AA". is there a slander policy on this forum. I realize you are new, and I do not mean this as any sort of disrespect. Go do a search because frankly, some of us are tired of dealing with the unscrupulous underbelly of the firearm world....... 10/4 thanks, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackthorne 2 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 But whatever you do, don't go with those people who promote various packages including ''our reliability service'' Stay the hell away, seriously. On a side note, why don't you convert it yourself, then send it off later for welding details and refinishing? The conversion isn't hard, it will teach you a lot about your S12 and you will save a decent amount of money doing it. I'm glad I did my own S12 and 7.62x39 rifle myself, but I had no problem sending them off for the welded holes and other stuff I am not able to do on my own. Z why is the ''our reliability service'' such a bad thing to advertise. is it these guns tend to break a lot or are they trying to say they do better quality work when they dont, or is it something else? i have put a lot of thought in doing it myself . but i would be buying some parts twice it seems if i do it then send it off later, and i dont have a lot of time to spend on projects although it wouldn't take that much time i think. i have looked at companies like tromix, red jacket firearms, e-tac, and just emailed cadiz gun works. Tromix is backed up. Thats my first choice. Tony referred me to red jacket and i'm just trying to put it all together so i can get a quote. my biggest fear is that, well this parts going to sound weird, i haven't even bought the gun yet. im ready, i just havent worked out the place yet. long story, cant do face to face sell over state line from my friend without ffl "costing to much money". its already cheaper to buy online i just haven't locked down a cheap ffl holder to receive the s12. back to my fear i hope i dont recieve a "vodka special" i will be pissed. i have spent to much time thinking about this. my plan is to break it in then send it off thanks for all the info from all Also, what kind of conversion do you want? Do you want a rear receiver plate welded in, or do you want to buy a folder unit that you slide and bolt in? Do you want a folding stock or a fixed stock? Do you want an exotic, NFA, Short Barrel Shotgun? Do you want a Dinzag gas block with the flip up sights? Krebs sights? No sights? Tromix trigger guard? Modified stock Bulgarian trigger guard? Reused Saiga 12 guard? As mentioned before, you can do a LOT of the work yourself. Just search the forums. The only conversion work that I did not do myself was the TIG welding. I had a friend of mine do that. You could probably take it to a reputable machine shop or welder to have that done. Other than that, I got all of my parts by mail order, including the Dura Coat paint. With a little skill, common sense (WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!), and a lot of patience, you will end up with a firearms that you can be very pleased with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james peek 14 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 But whatever you do, don't go with those people who promote various packages including ''our reliability service'' Stay the hell away, seriously. On a side note, why don't you convert it yourself, then send it off later for welding details and refinishing? The conversion isn't hard, it will teach you a lot about your S12 and you will save a decent amount of money doing it. I'm glad I did my own S12 and 7.62x39 rifle myself, but I had no problem sending them off for the welded holes and other stuff I am not able to do on my own. Z why is the ''our reliability service'' such a bad thing to advertise. is it these guns tend to break a lot or are they trying to say they do better quality work when they dont, or is it something else? i have put a lot of thought in doing it myself . but i would be buying some parts twice it seems if i do it then send it off later, and i dont have a lot of time to spend on projects although it wouldn't take that much time i think. i have looked at companies like tromix, red jacket firearms, e-tac, and just emailed cadiz gun works. Tromix is backed up. Thats my first choice. Tony referred me to red jacket and i'm just trying to put it all together so i can get a quote. my biggest fear is that, well this parts going to sound weird, i haven't even bought the gun yet. im ready, i just havent worked out the place yet. long story, cant do face to face sell over state line from my friend without ffl "costing to much money". its already cheaper to buy online i just haven't locked down a cheap ffl holder to receive the s12. back to my fear i hope i dont recieve a "vodka special" i will be pissed. i have spent to much time thinking about this. my plan is to break it in then send it off thanks for all the info from all Also, what kind of conversion do you want? Do you want a rear receiver plate welded in, or do you want to buy a folder unit that you slide and bolt in? Do you want a folding stock or a fixed stock? Do you want an exotic, NFA, Short Barrel Shotgun? Do you want a Dinzag gas block with the flip up sights? Krebs sights? No sights? Tromix trigger guard? Modified stock Bulgarian trigger guard? Reused Saiga 12 guard? As mentioned before, you can do a LOT of the work yourself. Just search the forums. The only conversion work that I did not do myself was the TIG welding. I had a friend of mine do that. You could probably take it to a reputable machine shop or welder to have that done. Other than that, I got all of my parts by mail order, including the Dura Coat paint. With a little skill, common sense (WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!), and a lot of patience, you will end up with a firearms that you can be very pleased with. Thanks for the reply, im constantly discovering new stuff and im just trying to sort it out, i didnt realize they made a slide on stock. i thought you either bolted on or tig welded the back plate. but i think tig welded back plate so i can change the stock down the road plus i would think it a plus for structural integrity and keeping elements out. i want tromix parts like fcg ,trigger guard, it only makes sence at this point i think. nothing real fancy cut down barrel with flash hidder to make 18-1/4" so its 922r. one company uses gunkote and another molyresine dont know whats better. im trying to keep this low budget so little accessories. cant figure out the sight part yet. there's a forearm that looks similar to the factory one that has three picatanny rails that can be used down the road for grip etc.... thanks again, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) ...im trying to keep this low budget so little accessories. cant figure out the sight part yet... I recommend Krebs combat sights for the S-12. The front sight attaches to the barrel with a secure hardened steel collar, and the rear ghost-ring replaces your stock rear sights. Basic hand-tools are all that's required for installation; there's no welding involved. These sights are quite easy and natural to use, and vastly increase the sight radius of your irons. Edited June 10, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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