BolivianAK 2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hi guys, I am new to the wonderful world of guns, as I have only 1 gun that I recently purchased, a Romanian WASR 10. Anyways, I am wondering if a Saiga-12 is going to be a trouble free gun for me. Is it as reliable as a good AK? I have heard several counts of problems with feeding and ejecting shells. I do plan on doing the conversion on it eventually, but will I be able to enjoy it "out of the box"? Is there anything that I need to consider before I commit to buying a Saiga-12? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hi guys, I am new to the wonderful world of guns, as I have only 1 gun that I recently purchased, a Romanian WASR 10. Anyways, I am wondering if a Saiga-12 is going to be a trouble free gun for me. Is it as reliable as a good AK? I have heard several counts of problems with feeding and ejecting shells. I do plan on doing the conversion on it eventually, but will I be able to enjoy it "out of the box"? Is there anything that I need to consider before I commit to buying a Saiga-12? Thanks! Try to avoid the "vodka special" models serial numbers start H08430 _ _ _ I have 2 and had to port both which isnt a big deal for me. when you look at one screw the gas plug out and check to see if you can see 4 ports (might not be able to see the one closest to you), if you can see all 4 and it has a BHO Id go for it. As for reliability after I reworked my gas system Ive fired around 300rds without cleaning and it has never malfunctioned, great guns and about as fun as your first ruger 10/22 when you were a kid Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Welcome to the forum! There's a wealth of knowledge in these pages. Be sure to read up. Many of your questions will probably already have been asked more times than once. I love the search function. It really helps narrow down threads about what you're looking for. I really wish I could tell you with 100% certainty that ANY firearm you purchase will be trouble free right out of the box. I suppose if I could predict things like that, I'd have an act in Vegas (or would win the Mega Millions Lottery). If a Saiga is made correctly, it should function as it was originally intended to function without a problem. Just remember, the Saiga 12 is a combat shotgun. That's what it was initially made for. OO buck or slugs being used in a combat zone or by Police. Folks like many of us are the ones that like to buy the cheap 100 round Wal Mart packs of ammo, then when the gun doesn't reliably cycle them the first time we take it out, we act like the gun is a piece of garbage and complain that it's not working right. That's the human condition I guess. Don't get me wrong.....a Saiga can be set up to cycle just about anything. Mine does. But because it was not originally designed to shoot skeet, it will probably require you to (at the VERY least) break it in thoroughly before being able to so reliably. Until you break it in with at least 100-200 rounds, anything you experience with it shouldn't be assumed to be "the norm". When you first get one, unscrew the gas plug and use a dental pic to confirm how many gas ports your gun has. Most modern ones have 3 or 4. If you have less, it will probably have some issues (but will be under warranty). Talk to CGW for warranty work, if needed. It's free. If you're planning to just use lightweight ammo with it, you would benefit from using a lighter recoil spring and possibly a reduced power mainspring. Both are available from Carolina Shooters Supply. Polishing the action up will help a whole lot too. Most of the threads about what I'm telling you are stuck at the top of the page when you come to the Saiga 12 section of this forum. Getting something like the Gunfixer adjustable gas knob will make things a ton easier for you too. Especially if you're using lightweight rounds. I love mine. So you see, it's not possible for me to tell you that your Saiga 12 will be 100% right out of the box because I have no idea how you're intending to use it, what type of ammo you're intending to feed it or if it will be one of the shotguns that benefit from warranty work if it's got obstructed gas ports or some other problem due to a factory mix up. It's kinda like me buying a Nascar and putting the cheapest gasoline in it, driving it off road through the mud and across the ice, then when it doesn't behave like I wanted it to, I say Nascars are a piece of crap. Saigas are meant for combat. They are meant to fire buckshot or slugs at humans that are probably shooting back. They do this extremely well. It's usually when we try getting it to do things "out of its element" that it needs to be tweaked. Having said that, I can tell you that mine (made in '08) will cycle anything I feed it. Just today I shot a 20 round drum full of the worst ammo I'm familiar with for my Saiga (WalMart bulk Winchester) without incident. I don't recommend that ammo though. I just happened to have some and I wanted to see if my new Tromix charging handle would have added too much weight to the bolt to allow reliable cycling. Welcome to the forum and I hope this helped answer your questions. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) ...when you look at one screw the gas plug out and check to see if you can see 4 ports (might not be able to see the one closest to you), if you can see all 4 and it has a BHO Id go for it... Afaik no "newer" production S-12's, (made in 4th quarter '08 or later), have 4 ports, they instead have 3 larger ports, which work just fine. Also, all recently produced S-12's have BHO's. To BolivianAK: The main thing to check is to make sure that you have at least 3 unobstructed gas ports. The best way to do that is to remove the gas plug, as justin suggested, look to see how many ports your barrel has, and then pass the end of a dental pick or similar tool, (a bent paperclip will do ), as Corbin suggested, through the ports and down into the barrel, (visually checking as you do so), to make sure that the ports are not in any way obstructed and are properly made, (no nasty burrs etc). Your gun will most likely have 3 unobstructed gas ports. The next thing you should do is take your new shotgun to your local range/wherever and try er out I recommend starting with high-brass on the lowest gas plug setting that'll cycle it, (generally setting "1" is for high-brass powerful shells, setting "2" is for lower-brass shells); whether it's slugs, buck, or even birdshot it shouldn't matter, so long as the shells have a high powder load. As Corbin mentioned, she's gonna take some "breaking in" before she'll reliably cycle cheap low-brass plinking birdshot, like the Federal bulk-pack Wally World stuff. It is worth mentioning that Federal cheap birdshot is recommended, not Winchester. The Federal cycles better. Once you've established that she functions well, (you don't have to fire hundreds of shells right off the bat to establish this, but that is the number required for a proper "break-in"), it'll be time to think about what parts you'd like to use to restore your "sporter" S-12 to what she should be, with the proper triggergroup, properly positioned pistol grip, etc. For this, there are dozens of options. I'd recommend you read up on this board. Most everything's been discussed before, (or dozens of times ). I predict that you'll be very glad that you decided to invest in a Saiga-12. They're one of the most effective and fun firearms I've ever had the pleasure of owning. Once you go through a few boxes of shells with yours, I think you'll agree. Edited June 16, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfmedic 8 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 ...when you look at one screw the gas plug out and check to see if you can see 4 ports (might not be able to see the one closest to you), if you can see all 4 and it has a BHO Id go for it... Afaik no "newer" production S-12's, (made in 4th quarter '08 or later), have 4 ports, they instead have 3 larger ports, which work just fine. Also, all recently produced S-12's have BHO's. To BolivianAK: The main thing to check is to make sure that you have at least 3 unobstructed gas ports. The best way to do that is to remove the gas plug, as justin suggested, look to see how many ports your barrel has, and then pass the end of a dental pick or similar tool, (a bent paperclip will do ), as Corbin suggested, through the ports and down into the barrel, (visually checking as you do so), to make sure that the ports are not in any way obstructed and are properly made, (no nasty burrs etc). Your gun will most likely have 3 unobstructed gas ports. The next thing you should do is take your new shotgun to your local range/wherever and try er out I recommend starting with high-brass on the lowest gas plug setting that'll cycle it, (generally setting "1" is for high-brass powerful shells, setting "2" is for lower-brass shells); whether it's slugs, buck, or even birdshot it shouldn't matter, so long as the shells have a high powder load. As Corbin mentioned, she's gonna take some "breaking in" before she'll reliably cycle cheap low-brass plinking birdshot, like the Federal bulk-pack Wally World stuff. It is worth mentioning that Federal cheap birdshot is recommended, not Winchester. The Federal cycles better. Once you've established that she functions well, (you don't have to fire hundreds of shells right off the bat to establish this, but that is the number required for a proper "break-in"), it'll be time to think about what parts you'd like to use to restore your "sporter" S-12 to what she should be, with the proper triggergroup, properly positioned pistol grip, etc. For this, there are dozens of options. I'd recommend you read up on this board. Most everything's been discussed before, (or dozens of times ). I predict that you'll be very glad that you decided to invest in a Saiga-12. They're one of the most effective and fun firearms I've ever had the pleasure of owning. Once you go through a few boxes of shells with yours, I think you'll agree. I just want to add here really quickly, without reading what the guys said, that a "trouble free" S12 is an oxymoron. However, the learning experience you get by troubleshooting through the forum is indispensable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Go out and shoot it with good and crappy ammo. if it has problems they will be very obvious. Most are fairly straightforward fixes or coverd by warranty. If it doesn't malfunction in the first couple hundred cheapo shot then it probably doesn't at all... you can have some fun for about $40 and find the answer to your question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Once you "Fine-Tune" the gun with a dremel and metal files, it will run "Trouble-Free" forever. I've literally put thousands of rounds through my S-12 and had very FEW failures (that weren't my fault - - Gas setting still on 1 trying to shoot bird shot etc.) These guns were designed for the heavy stuff (Buck/Slugs) not our really wussy light target loads. Don't be too surprised if they have extraction issues with the light stuff. It took 100rds of 2 3/4" Slugs/Buck on setting #2 to get my second S-12 to reliably cycle bird shot. They need some "work-in" period. The best part of owning an S12 that functions perfectly, is the attention it demands at the range... I constantly get people staring at me when I dump 100 rounds of birdshot. Shotguns are the CHEAPEST thing to shoot these days... $0.20 /rd of bird shot... even 7.62x39 is almost $0.30 a round now.... and forget pistol... even 9mm at WALMART is $0.20 a rd and you have to FIND IT. . . or get it at a gunshow/gunshop @ $0.30-$0.50 /rd. . . . The only thing cheaper to shoot today, other than shotguns w/bird, are .22LR. ~SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BolivianAK 2 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Thanks for all the info guys...looks like I see a Saiga 12 in my future. Unfortunately my first gun was a project gun from the get go and was full of problems, but this seems a lot more manageable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OptimusGonzo 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi guys, I am new to the wonderful world of guns, as I have only 1 gun that I recently purchased, a Romanian WASR 10. Anyways, I am wondering if a Saiga-12 is going to be a trouble free gun for me. Is it as reliable as a good AK? I have heard several counts of problems with feeding and ejecting shells. I do plan on doing the conversion on it eventually, but will I be able to enjoy it "out of the box"? Is there anything that I need to consider before I commit to buying a Saiga-12? Thanks! Hey Bolivian, I just bought a new Saiga 12, I took it to the range today and I can say without a doubt that it is awesome! Everything works out of the box, although I did buy some 10 round mags. I also bought a recoil buffer, but I wanted to shoot the Saiga once before I installed it, and those slugs certainly do deliver a lot of kick, so be prepared if you plan to shoot slugs. Also I'm a Saiga 12 forum noob, lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Well, if you buy one from us, we will inspect it for you to ensure that it doesnt get returned to us for free servicing. And when you do buy one? well, put it on gas setting one, and throw some 15 pellet 3" 00 buck down it to get yourself familiar with the 12 gauge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi guys, I am new to the wonderful world of guns, as I have only 1 gun that I recently purchased, a Romanian WASR 10. Anyways, I am wondering if a Saiga-12 is going to be a trouble free gun for me. Is it as reliable as a good AK? I have heard several counts of problems with feeding and ejecting shells. I do plan on doing the conversion on it eventually, but will I be able to enjoy it "out of the box"? Is there anything that I need to consider before I commit to buying a Saiga-12? Thanks! Hey Bolivian, I just bought a new Saiga 12, I took it to the range today and I can say without a doubt that it is awesome! Everything works out of the box, although I did buy some 10 round mags. I also bought a recoil buffer, but I wanted to shoot the Saiga once before I installed it, and those slugs certainly do deliver a lot of kick, so be prepared if you plan to shoot slugs. Also I'm a Saiga 12 forum noob, lol The use of recoil buffers in the S12 has proven to be problematic.If Mr. Kalashnikov had thought it needed a recoil buffer, he'd have designed it with one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi guys, I am new to the wonderful world of guns, as I have only 1 gun that I recently purchased, a Romanian WASR 10. Anyways, I am wondering if a Saiga-12 is going to be a trouble free gun for me. Is it as reliable as a good AK? I have heard several counts of problems with feeding and ejecting shells. I do plan on doing the conversion on it eventually, but will I be able to enjoy it "out of the box"? Is there anything that I need to consider before I commit to buying a Saiga-12? Thanks! Hey Bolivian, I just bought a new Saiga 12, I took it to the range today and I can say without a doubt that it is awesome! Everything works out of the box, although I did buy some 10 round mags. I also bought a recoil buffer, but I wanted to shoot the Saiga once before I installed it, and those slugs certainly do deliver a lot of kick, so be prepared if you plan to shoot slugs. Also I'm a Saiga 12 forum noob, lol The use of recoil buffers in the S12 has proven to be problematic.If Mr. Kalashnikov had thought it needed a recoil buffer, he'd have designed it with one maybe buffers are problematic, but I don't think mr Kalashnikov could have thought of every good idea or died. for one thing, he didn't think of making it in 12 gauge. I'm glad some people decided to expand on his design and give me an S-12. He had a good design. Don't stifle innovation merely because we have functional. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 as far as Im concerned, Mr K. made this for all of us, as well as all of them. 12 gauge chambering was inevitable. If you run your gun with light and heavy loads on a course, and leave your gas setting on "2", put a bufffer in it.....otherwise leave well enough alone........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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