rightwingnut 0 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I heard some guy mention in passing about how he had relieved the bottom of his carrier so that when he store the gun w/ loaded magazine the top shell wouldn't get deformed. I wonder if this type of thing would also make the gun easier to load on a closed bolt. Anyone done this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I heard some guy mention in passing about how he had relieved the bottom of his carrier so that when he store the gun w/ loaded magazine the top shell wouldn't get deformed. I wonder if this type of thing would also make the gun easier to load on a closed bolt. Anyone done this? Cobra has posted about this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 See: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20234 If you screw with the carrier you're going to mess stuff up considering the rounds never touch the CARRIER only the BOLT. Carrier = Black thing with handle and gas piston. Bolt = Rides in Carrier and touches the rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Cobra does the bolt and bolt carrier mod for this. Here's the link: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33224 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do machine the carrier some, but it has nothing to do with the shells. I do it so that the bolt carrier rides back over the hammer with almost no resistance, making chambering much more positive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do machine the carrier some, but it has nothing to do with the shells. I do it so that the bolt carrier rides back over the hammer with almost no resistance, making chambering much more positive. I do the same only with removing material from the HAMMER not the Carrier.... Hammer = $30 replacement part... i don't even want to think what it'd cost to get a new carrier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VWBeamer 1 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 If you think magazine or bolt interference is a problem with FTE, you can fed a shell by hand, fire it and see if it is ejected. Obvious once you think of it, but some don't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do machine the carrier some, but it has nothing to do with the shells. I do it so that the bolt carrier rides back over the hammer with almost no resistance, making chambering much more positive. Me too! Not much mind you, just enough to cut down on the drag. Mostly a polish job really. Now the bolt, that got re-contoured! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 can anyone post some before & after pics of that hammer &/or carrier relief jobs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 can anyone post some before & after pics of that hammer &/or carrier relief jobs? Cobra has posted those exact pics. I guess try to use the search or something??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe Zambeak 53 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 can anyone post some before & after pics of that hammer &/or carrier relief jobs? Cobra does the bolt and bolt carrier mod for this. Here's the link: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33224 You can lead a horse to water....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I reshaped the bottom of my bolt to help with mag insertion. As long as you take it slow and don't remove too much, you're probably OK. As has been said, don't machine the carrier. The only grinding I ever did on mine was to make a small divit in the charging handle to hold the set screw on Tromix's new bolt on charging handle. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 There's nothing wrong with "machining" the carrier. You stand to do a lot more damage by screwing around with the hammer profile than you do by slightly re contouring the bottom of the carrier and polishing it. That dead horse stinks like hell though so I'll just not go there.... What do me and Gunfixr really know anyway right? Bottom line is, if you don't know what you are doing then you shouldn't screw around with the major working parts of the firearm in question. No offense intended to the OP BTW. can anyone post some before & after pics of that hammer &/or carrier relief jobs? Cobra does the bolt and bolt carrier mod for this. Here's the link: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33224 You can lead a horse to water....... LMAO! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I had see that thread already. I thought that was just pics of the machining of the bolt parts, not the carrier for reducing friction w/ the hammer. Now that I am looking for that too I guess I see some subtle rounding & polishing of the center of the carrier? Just how much easier does doing the work to the bolt make inserting, for example a loaded 10 rd, magazine? Does it only take like half as much effort? So cobra, are you able to store a loaded magazines in the gun w/o the top round deforming after this job? I am tempted to get one of those mag wells, but I really like my MD20 & I think I'll have this done first to see if it is good enough... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 On the ones I've done it goes from something seemingly impossible for some folks (this I've never understood because I've personally never had a problem inserting any fully loaded mags on a closed bolt, with the exception of the MD-20), to almost effortless. That means you can lock the front lug just like any AK mag, and rock it into place. Even an overstuffed mag will lock in with minimal effort. Something important that should be noted here...a "fully loaded mag", by definition, is a mag that has the number of shells in it which are it's intended capacity by design. Just because you can stuff an extra round in a Russian 8 rdr and have 9, the same way you can cram a 13th rd into a Surefire 12rdr, or even trim some off the follower and get 11 in an AGP 10, this does not mean it is going to work right, especially on a closed bolt. People have been doing this for years, since the Russian 8s were the only thing you could get that held more than 5. And these same people have come here complaining like hell because their gun won't work right with a "full" mag. Your question was a good one though, about what kind of difference you might see on top round deformation, if you have a modified bolt. So I swapped the bolts and carriers in my two main S-12s. I took the modified bolt and carrier out of my magwell gun and put them in my AKS-12 which is completely unmodified (not the bolt, carrier, or feedramp and still is easy for me to load full mags on a closed bolt), and inserted a 10 rd AGP mag with ten rounds in it. It's the cheap bulk pack stuff from Wallyworld (the Federal). I'll leave it in there for a day or so and see if I have any trouble quickly loading that first round. I suspect it will still have some TRD but might still load anyway. Before putting that one in, I loaded a Surefire 12 up with 13 rds and inserted it on the closed bolt, then chambered the first round no problem. I'm sure it would not have chambered had it been allowed to sit very long but it did work after just a few seconds. I'm pretty sure you couldn't do that with an unmodified bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I do some polishing on the hammer, mostly on the lobes where the trigger and disconnector ride. Polishing the face doesn't remove the resistance on the carrier like modding the carrier does. Also, like Cobra mentioned, it's real easy to either stop the gun from firing, or make it not catch the disconnector anymore by reshaping the hammer face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I do machine the carrier some, but it has nothing to do with the shells. I do it so that the bolt carrier rides back over the hammer with almost no resistance, making chambering much more positive. I do the same only with removing material from the HAMMER not the Carrier.... Hammer = $30 replacement part... i don't even want to think what it'd cost to get a new carrier. I take a much different approach when I work on something. I don't worry about messing up the more expensive part. I do the job at hand and do it with confidence, because I have done all my research and also learned by hands on experience. I would never perform any kind of mods on someone else's parts or gun, without having done the exact same mods to my own and thoroughly tested it. Going in and half assing something because you are afraid you might screw something up and not be able to replace it, is the work of a total amateur. These kind of folks should not be working on their own guns, much less anyone else's. I get asked all the time just how much is too much, to remove from the bolt, after I posted those pictures, and posted about learning the hard way with one of my own. It cost me a bolt to learn that lesson. I took off too much and now it has a hole through the bottom, going into the cavity for the bolt head. I'm not going to tell someone they can do this and do that, and guarantee they will have the same kind of success as if they had just sent me their bolt and carrier and paid for my experience. You can't always just look at pictures of what someone else has done, and duplicate it yourself. With something as critical as this, it's best to send it to someone who has actually done it before. That said, you can always do like I did and learn by experience. It may end up costing you a bolt though, or maybe worse... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I take a much different approach when I work on something. I don't worry about messing up the more expensive part. I do the job at hand and do it with confidence, because I have done all my research and also learned by hands on experience. I would never perform any kind of mods on someone else's parts or gun, without having done the exact same mods to my own and thoroughly tested it.Going in and half assing something because you are afraid you might screw something up and not be able to replace it, is the work of a total amateur. These kind of folks should not be working on their own guns, much less anyone else's. I get asked all the time just how much is too much, to remove from the bolt, after I posted those pictures, and posted about learning the hard way with one of my own. It cost me a bolt to learn that lesson. I took off too much and now it has a hole through the bottom, going into the cavity for the bolt head. I'm not going to tell someone they can do this and do that, and guarantee they will have the same kind of success as if they had just sent me their bolt and carrier and paid for my experience. You can't always just look at pictures of what someone else has done, and duplicate it yourself. With something as critical as this, it's best to send it to someone who has actually done it before. That said, you can always do like I did and learn by experience. It may end up costing you a bolt though, or maybe worse... +1000 You can't work under a bunch of fear, and get things done, and come up with something new. Blazing a trail is always scary. I don't know who said it, but "All great action carries risk". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I do machine the carrier some, but it has nothing to do with the shells. I do it so that the bolt carrier rides back over the hammer with almost no resistance, making chambering much more positive. I do the same only with removing material from the HAMMER not the Carrier.... Hammer = $30 replacement part... i don't even want to think what it'd cost to get a new carrier. I take a much different approach when I work on something. I don't worry about messing up the more expensive part. I do the job at hand and do it with confidence, because I have done all my research and also learned by hands on experience. I would never perform any kind of mods on someone else's parts or gun, without having done the exact same mods to my own and thoroughly tested it. Going in and half assing something because you are afraid you might screw something up and not be able to replace it, is the work of a total amateur. These kind of folks should not be working on their own guns, much less anyone else's. I get asked all the time just how much is too much, to remove from the bolt, after I posted those pictures, and posted about learning the hard way with one of my own. It cost me a bolt to learn that lesson. I took off too much and now it has a hole through the bottom, going into the cavity for the bolt head. I'm not going to tell someone they can do this and do that, and guarantee they will have the same kind of success as if they had just sent me their bolt and carrier and paid for my experience. You can't always just look at pictures of what someone else has done, and duplicate it yourself. With something as critical as this, it's best to send it to someone who has actually done it before. That said, you can always do like I did and learn by experience. It may end up costing you a bolt though, or maybe worse... Thanks Cobra, Since I don't have a Gunsmithing License, i do consider myself an Amateur who only works on his own guns, and would never charge fees as if I was a professional with a license. But I appreciate you being a douche and pointing it out like some sorta Saiga-12 Dalai Lama, master-splinter, all-knowing wise-ass. You wonder why you get in fights with people... because you're a douche and insist on insulting everyone. Go fuck yourself. Respectfully, SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 No I don't get in fights with everyone SN. Only with "douchebags" like yourself who post idiotic things on the forum, and don't like it when I'm a little too hard on them with my responses sometimes. You have posted some of the most ridiculous things about how you modify this and experiment with that....right in the faces of people who actually do know what they are doing and DO have licenses. And FYI, I am currently in the process of getting mine thank you very much. I do NOT perform any work on other people's guns without them being in my presence and helping out. If you are implying otherwise, you can take that and stuff it up your on ass noobie. People come here to learn things dude. Be careful what you say and you won't have to hear anyone complain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 No I don't get in fights with everyone SN. Only with "douchebags" like yourself who post idiotic things on the forum, and don't like it when I'm a little too hard on them with my responses sometimes. You have posted some of the most ridiculous things about how you modify this and experiment with that....right in the faces of people who actually do know what they are doing and DO have licenses. And FYI, I am currently in the process of getting mine thank you very much. I do NOT perform any work on other people's guns without them being in my presence and helping out. If you are implying otherwise, you can take that and stuff it up your on ass noobie. People come here to learn things dude. Be careful what you say and you won't have to hear anyone complain. Glad you admit to being an Amateur yourself. It must be rough living in Cobra world where everyone who does something different than you is automatically an idiot.... must be hard being the smartest Amateur Gunsmith in the world. So, how much to get my bolt and carrier hacked up by you? Oh that's right, you're an amateur and would never charge rates like you had a license to do the work you're charging for... I want to experiment by changing out a part or modding a piece and you call me an idiot, and then you call me an amateur for only modding parts that are easily & cheaply replaced, instead of modifying parts that are harder/more expensive to replace.... So let me get this straight, re-contouring the hammer to allow the action to cycle smoothly is Amateur... smoothing the bolt undersides is Amateur... re-shaping the feed ramp is amateur.... making a short-reset trigger is amatuer.... taking off the corners and edges is amateur... BUT, destroying a bolt is PRO.... grinding down the bolt carrier to allow the TAPCO G2 trigger (Which is already 2x as large as the FACTORY Hammer) to ride by with little resistance is PRO.... Man, sorry, I should destroy my bolt and butcher my carrier so I can be pro like you... So sorry that I know the internal workings of the gun and think ahead so I've never "Destroyed" a part.... But damn, I guess figuring that IF I were to go "too Far" and screw up a part, that I'd be better off screwing up a readily available G2 Hammer, rather than the BOLT CARRIER OF THE FUCKING GUN... I guess that's an IDIOT's way of thinking.... :rolleyes: Oh and my ridiculous experiments and mods included: 1. Stiffer Disconnector spring. 2. ASKING If the TINY third lug, which is the culprit of the gouges and dings on the .308 ammo shoulder, is actually necessary. (This wasn't even a mod or experiment, it was a question that I asked so I could get opinions on....) OMFG I'm a mad crazy amateur. :wacko: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 COMING UP NEXT! FOR THE VAST AMUSEMENT OF ALL......THE FIGHT CLUB WILL BE PRESENTING!!!..... BATTLE OF THE AGES!!! DOUCHEBAG V. REPTILE COMING SOON....(THE STINK OF BLOOD IS IN THE AIR!!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Amateur night at fight club, huh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 No thanks, I'll pass on the shit slinging fest in the "fight club". That forum is for people who don't have anything better to do with their time these days... I guess AS USUAL saiganoobie, we will just have to agree to disagree. You go right on thinking I'm an asshole know it all, and I'll keep right on thinking you are just a kid who's an idiot. BTW...If you ever become a Business Member on this forum THEN you can charge people for your amateur services as well. Have a day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VWBeamer 1 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 LOL I also go by the rule to always modify the cheapest part first. More than likely, you are like me and tinker with a number of different items. I do machine the carrier some, but it has nothing to do with the shells. I do it so that the bolt carrier rides back over the hammer with almost no resistance, making chambering much more positive. I do the same only with removing material from the HAMMER not the Carrier.... Hammer = $30 replacement part... i don't even want to think what it'd cost to get a new carrier. I take a much different approach when I work on something. I don't worry about messing up the more expensive part. I do the job at hand and do it with confidence, because I have done all my research and also learned by hands on experience. I would never perform any kind of mods on someone else's parts or gun, without having done the exact same mods to my own and thoroughly tested it. Going in and half assing something because you are afraid you might screw something up and not be able to replace it, is the work of a total amateur. These kind of folks should not be working on their own guns, much less anyone else's. I get asked all the time just how much is too much, to remove from the bolt, after I posted those pictures, and posted about learning the hard way with one of my own. It cost me a bolt to learn that lesson. I took off too much and now it has a hole through the bottom, going into the cavity for the bolt head. I'm not going to tell someone they can do this and do that, and guarantee they will have the same kind of success as if they had just sent me their bolt and carrier and paid for my experience. You can't always just look at pictures of what someone else has done, and duplicate it yourself. With something as critical as this, it's best to send it to someone who has actually done it before. That said, you can always do like I did and learn by experience. It may end up costing you a bolt though, or maybe worse... Thanks Cobra, Since I don't have a Gunsmithing License, i do consider myself an Amateur who only works on his own guns, and would never charge fees as if I was a professional with a license. But I appreciate you being a douche and pointing it out like some sorta Saiga-12 Dalai Lama, master-splinter, all-knowing wise-ass. You wonder why you get in fights with people... because you're a douche and insist on insulting everyone. Go fuck yourself. Respectfully, SN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 No thanks, I'll pass on the shit slinging fest in the "fight club". That forum is for people who don't have anything better to do with their time these days... I guess AS USUAL saiganoobie, we will just have to agree to disagree. You go right on thinking I'm an asshole know it all, and I'll keep right on thinking you are just a kid who's an idiot. BTW...If you ever become a Business Member on this forum THEN you can charge people for your amateur services as well. Have a day. Yes, we agree on something... that we disagree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Re-reading your post Cobra, it seems we agree on Two things: 1. That we Disagree. and 2. That we avoid the "Shit Slinging" Fight-Club area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Re-reading your post Cobra, it seems we agree on Two things: 1. That we Disagree. and 2. That we avoid the "Shit Slinging" Fight-Club area. Awww....ratfeces Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 No thanks, I'll pass on the shit slinging fest in the "fight club". That forum is for people who don't have anything better to do with their time these days... I guess AS USUAL saiganoobie, we will just have to agree to disagree. You go right on thinking I'm an asshole know it all, and I'll keep right on thinking you are just a kid who's an idiot. BTW...If you ever become a Business Member on this forum THEN you can charge people for your amateur services as well. Have a day. Awww...ratfeces Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rightwingnut 0 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Oh...well, I will be glad to hear hear what you found after some storage w/ it loaded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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