llc 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Short stroked with any ammo, either setting. (2 position, 2 holes in barrel). I disassembled and observed hole in gas block was of a diameter to BLOCK OFF 1/2 of each hole. I drilled it out to a diameter to allow both barrel ports full access to the block and the shotgun now functions 85% with low base cheap 12ga. When time allows I will again disassemble and either drill a 3rd hole or oversize the two existing holes.........It is something to consider if you are having similar issues.....Tass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 1. Those holes are usually drilled on an angle. 2. They sell reduced tension hammer springs. 3. They sell reduced tension recoil springs. 4. They sell modified gas pucks and valves. I'd try 2, 3, and 4 before I drilled any holes in the gun. All of those parts can be found at CSS (carolina shooters supply). You could also look up the thread by tony from tromix where we shows you what parts of the bolt, bolt carrier and hammer to polish that reduces friction on recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 welcome to the forum tass - Just wanted to let you know that your gun is a "vodka special", and would have been eligible for a free warranty servicing by us here at Cadiz Gun Works had you not performed the work yourself. I would suggest putting a third hole of between .070 and .090, and not open the two existing holes any more. further, if you have opened the two holes up to say .090, you should go with a third hole at .060 and try that first. the issue you have, and the fixes for it are readily searchable on this forum. look for "vodka special", and you should turn up this info quite readily. also, put your gun on gas setting "1" and run some 3" buck down it, ten or 20 rounds. it will loosen things up a bit. on setting "2" you should be using 1 1/8oz birdshot loads for your low brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
llc 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 welcome to the forum tass - Just wanted to let you know that your gun is a "vodka special", and would have been eligible for a free warranty servicing by us here at Cadiz Gun Works had you not performed the work yourself. I would suggest putting a third hole of between .070 and .090, and not open the two existing holes any more. further, if you have opened the two holes up to say .090, you should go with a third hole at .060 and try that first. the issue you have, and the fixes for it are readily searchable on this forum. look for "vodka special", and you should turn up this info quite readily. also, put your gun on gas setting "1" and run some 3" buck down it, ten or 20 rounds. it will loosen things up a bit. on setting "2" you should be using 1 1/8oz birdshot loads for your low brass. I had not even considered warranty and only tried the computer as an afterthought. Its nice to know there is a source of information and help available. I will pull the weapon apart again and do as you suggest. I fired 11 Federal LEO slugs through it to start with and a bunch of my 1 1/8oz 6 shot to start with and had already done the polishing and cleanup others suggested. Seems the "Vodka Special" is a combination of brilliance combined with "don't give a shit". I have a chinese mag fed 12 gage also but it suffered from huge ports and too much gas. Had to do some plugging there, it threw the hull about 40 feet and shot fire out the port. It works well not but there is no source for parts or magazines. With the Saiga there is availability for both. Thanks for your response, I will do as you suggest. Does Cadiz have a web page? ............Tass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacsucks 3 Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Check out the article in my signature. It will walk you through the whole process in one spot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
llc 0 Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Check out the article in my signature. It will walk you through the whole process in one spot. I checked out your article and a couple others........found a new things when I tore the gun down. I have no doubt it is a vodka special and I suspect it was a friday night one to boot. Hole in gas block too small, only two holes in barrel but there had been attempts to drill at least one other. Looks like a bit broke or something and gun was left with only two holes. It now has 4, the gas block hole lines up with them and the front sight is on top instead of a few degrees to the left. I had to redrill the barrel pin slots but no problem. Test fire tomorrow, I am sure things will work well. The design of the gun is sound, the individual pieces are made well but it appears to have been assembled by 25 different people, none of which knew what the finished product was supposed to look like or do. Thanks to all for help and suggestions. I will advise after firing...........taas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
llc 0 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Check out the article in my signature. It will walk you through the whole process in one spot. I checked out your article and a couple others........found a new things when I tore the gun down. I have no doubt it is a vodka special and I suspect it was a friday night one to boot. Hole in gas block too small, only two holes in barrel but there had been attempts to drill at least one other. Looks like a bit broke or something and gun was left with only two holes. It now has 4, the gas block hole lines up with them and the front sight is on top instead of a few degrees to the left. I had to redrill the barrel pin slots but no problem. Test fire tomorrow, I am sure things will work well. The design of the gun is sound, the individual pieces are made well but it appears to have been assembled by 25 different people, none of which knew what the finished product was supposed to look like or do. Thanks to all for help and suggestions. I will advise after firing...........taas Did a few more things before test firing. I applied some of the things I have done on some AK47 and AK74 rifles since most parts are common to all 3 weapons. Polished the carrier and bolt surfaces. chucked the piston in the lathe and turned to obtain a .0005" clearance with the gas block, polished the inside of the gas block, polished the contact surfaces on the hammer and the disconnect and trigger. Went to the range and test fired. Slugs on 1..............perfect 1 1/8 oz low base on 1................perfect everything on 2.....................absolutely perfect. 125 rounds and not a single issue with anything.........my thumb is sore from loading magazines but what a great feeling.........Thank for the tips guys, a singleshot Vodka Special is now a dependable, sure fire weapon......................Tass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stellar Rigs 0 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 After trying different forward springs I started to get full ejection again but now the hammer follows the bolt [or doesn't cock]. I'm dreading machine shop work on the gas block but if I can't figure out another approach ........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
llc 0 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 After trying different forward springs I started to get full ejection again but now the hammer follows the bolt [or doesn't cock]. I'm dreading machine shop work on the gas block but if I can't figure out another approach ........ Alteration to te gas block is minimal, quick, and easy............sacsucks article points out an extra vent hole that can be plugged but I did not have to do that. You can make the opening in the gas block larger with a Dremel, a drill bit might work but its extremely hard and will ruin the bit. Does the barrel have 4 holes? If not, make it so............its been pointed out that if you have not made physical changes (you can put the spring back to original) the process of making the gun operate can be covered by warranty...........Tass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 2. They sell reduced tension hammer springs.3. They sell reduced tension recoil springs. Personally I don't like these as solutions to a gas-related problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Bob, neither do I. Tass, if your gun functions on setting one, use it on setting one. you may have overgassed it a little bit. i hate telling people to use them, but check your rear trunion for bolt marks. If you have marking occuring, consider getting a buffer from the e-store here, and sticking it in there, and running shells on the correct settings. if you MASH the thing on two with light loads, well, leave it on one with a buffer. even overgassed, the gun will last a LOOOONG time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 When I bought my 12 it didnt work. After learning more here I added low recoil spring, KA gas puck and 4 position gas selector, Works perfectly with all ammo. I have 3 holes with one partially covered but clear. Dont know which part helped but something did, worth the $ for reliability. Now that I know it works, its off to get modified. Cant wait!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
llc 0 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Bob, neither do I. Tass, if your gun functions on setting one, use it on setting one. you may have overgassed it a little bit. i hate telling people to use them, but check your rear trunion for bolt marks. If you have marking occuring, consider getting a buffer from the e-store here, and sticking it in there, and running shells on the correct settings. if you MASH the thing on two with light loads, well, leave it on one with a buffer. even overgassed, the gun will last a LOOOONG time. The weapon is living on the "1" setting........no sense hammering things just cause I can. 7/8 oz low base, el cheapo, works just fine on #1 so no need for more. I have installed the buffer just because and life is good. I am in the process of make an SAS 12 function correctly now..........its the heighth of simplicity, Norinco did great on the receiver but things go down hill a bit from that point on. The finish is great, but quality is lacking. SAIGA is a working weapon, not a show room special..............Tass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The buffer,.. There you go, the buffer causes the bolt to stop before the shell ejects all the way, try it without the buffer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 2. They sell reduced tension hammer springs.3. They sell reduced tension recoil springs. Personally I don't like these as solutions to a gas-related problem. I don't understand why. These changes can be made without voiding the warranty. If they don't work, you put the old parts back and send it in. Then all you're out is the cost of a couple of springs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 2. They sell reduced tension hammer springs.3. They sell reduced tension recoil springs. Personally I don't like these as solutions to a gas-related problem. I don't understand why. These changes can be made without voiding the warranty. If they don't work, you put the old parts back and send it in. Then all you're out is the cost of a couple of springs. The gas system should work as it's designed to. Using weaker springs to compensate for a weak gas system is not the right fix. That's kind of like tearing the seats out of a car to make it lighter to fix poor gas mileage. You fix the engine to fix the gas mileage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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