Patterning My Saiga

[beerasaurus 9]

As I'm finally getting my Saiga the way I want it, I figured it was time to hit the range and pattern it (as I do with all my shotguns). Of equal importance with my Saiga, though, was also finding out what rounds will run through and with what level of reliability.

 

While out there gathering data it occured to me that this was a good way to "give back" for all the help I've gotten off this board. Thus, here are my findings.

 

We started out with a 50 round system check to make sure everything was in working order. We then loaded up 3 different types of buckshot and fired until we felt we were getting a fair representative sample. Then we started measuring ranges and documenting everything.

 

Unfortunately, we had a camera malfunction towards the end and lost the entire first batch of pictures...so we had to set-up again and make a second pass. Sadly, because of that we did not end up with any pictures of the S&B patterns...but they were almost identical to the Winchester, so it's not a huge loss.

 

Now, without further ado...

 

The Weapon:

The system is obviously a Saiga 12. The other relevant info is:

19" standard bbl without modified choke or muzzle.

3 port gas vent with Chaos Gas Piston

Tromix bolt-on charging handle adapter

 

The Ammo:

Federal Premium Vital-Shok Flitecontrolled Copper-Jacketed 00 Buckshot in 2 3/4"

Winchester Ranger Low-Recoil 00 Buckshot in 2 3/4"

Seller and Bellor Premium 00 Buckshot in 2 3/4"

 

The Target:

All patterning was done against butcher paper taped over cardboard. Ranges were a static 7, 10, and 15 yards. The target was bordered with a 1 foot box (to give you a scale for the spread) and then dotted for reference, though we specifically aimed off-dot so as to make the pattern more visible.

 

The Findings:

 

7 Yards:

 

I was absolutely shocked at how tight the pattern was with the Federal Vital-Shok. The group is so tight that the shot cut an almost perfect circle out of the cardboard and the wadding and shot hit the same hole.

 

The Winchester Ranger and S&B both had a loose, irregular, and more traditional pattern. Total spread on these rounds was around 4 inches.

 

10 Yards:

 

At 10 yards the Federal just starts to open up, though even so it's tough to count the 9 pellet holes.

 

The Winchester and S&B both had much wider spreads, though both stayed within an 8" average.

 

15 Yards:

 

It takes going to 15 for the Federal to finally start looking like buckshot, but even then that pattern is brutally tight. At this point I was desperately wishing we could have gone to 20 and 25 yards, but there wasn't enough range space.

 

As for the Win and S&B, the spreads were too wide to really make an effective photo. They typically landed the shot within the 1 foot radius, but were random enough that a picture looked pointless.

 

The Verdict:

 

Federal:

Boy, did this stuff make me happy. The nice, full power load cycled my Saiga with authority and the ultra-tight groups showed me that when Federal calls a shot "flitecontrolled", they mean it. Enough so that I pondered whether or not the patterns are too tight for CQB/defense use. Conventionally, peole look to shotguns for a widely dispersed "hard tissue damage" pattern, but at close ranges this stuff functioned more like a slug. Of course, the difference here is that rather than one big hit you're getting 9 little hits that are spiraling in like a buzz saw. Which is keen. I'd also easily trust this to make a hit at 30 or 40 yards, and probably wouldn't worry too much out to 50. And some penetration tests we did showed that the copper jackets on the shot really do help as well. I now consider this my "Zombie Killing" ammo of choice.

 

Winchester:

If all I was looking for is a good, conventional pattern, this Ranger stuff is what I'd prefer to go for...if it actually cycled my Saiga. At all. Even once. Which it did not. Every single round had to be manually ejected, regardless of the gas setting. The reduced recoil is just too damned light. Still, it did please me enough that it is now my new recommended load for pump-action house-hold defense guns.

 

S&B:

If you liked the Winchester pattern, the S&B is the way for you to go. Though not quite as tight, it was still very comparable, and the full power load cycled my Saiga like a champ.

 

 

And that's it. I hope y'all enjoyed it.

[Bridis 319]

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

 

I'm sure you know this, but there is a lot of helpful tips and parts that can get your S-12 to cycle that Winchester ammo.

[gaucho1 0]

Great post!

 

Now we need someone with a polychoke to document buckshot with different choke settings.

 

It does look like flight control is the ultimate answer if you are looking for tight groups.

 

Thanks for the good work.

 

[VWBeamer 1]

Thanks!

[Azrial 1,091]

Nice little test, thought totally expected.

[rastamanila 313]

As I'm finally getting my Saiga the way I want it, I figured it was time to hit the range and pattern it (as I do with all my shotguns). Of equal importance with my Saiga, though, was also finding out what rounds will run through and with what level of reliability.

 

While out there gathering data it occured to me that this was a good way to "give back" for all the help I've gotten off this board. Thus, here are my findings.

 

We started out with a 50 round system check to make sure everything was in working order. We then loaded up 3 different types of buckshot and fired until we felt we were getting a fair representative sample. Then we started measuring ranges and documenting everything.

 

Unfortunately, we had a camera malfunction towards the end and lost the entire first batch of pictures...so we had to set-up again and make a second pass. Sadly, because of that we did not end up with any pictures of the S&B patterns...but they were almost identical to the Winchester, so it's not a huge loss.

 

Now, without further ado...

 

The Weapon:

The system is obviously a Saiga 12. The other relevant info is:

19" standard bbl without modified choke or muzzle.

3 port gas vent with Chaos Gas Piston

Tromix bolt-on charging handle adapter

 

The Ammo:

Federal Premium Vital-Shok Flitecontrolled Copper-Jacketed 00 Buckshot in 2 3/4"

Winchester Ranger Low-Recoil 00 Buckshot in 2 3/4"

Seller and Bellor Premium 00 Buckshot in 2 3/4"

 

The Target:

All patterning was done against butcher paper taped over cardboard. Ranges were a static 7, 10, and 15 yards. The target was bordered with a 1 foot box (to give you a scale for the spread) and then dotted for reference, though we specifically aimed off-dot so as to make the pattern more visible.

 

The Findings:

 

7 Yards:

 

I was absolutely shocked at how tight the pattern was with the Federal Vital-Shok. The group is so tight that the shot cut an almost perfect circle out of the cardboard and the wadding and shot hit the same hole.

 

The Winchester Ranger and S&B both had a loose, irregular, and more traditional pattern. Total spread on these rounds was around 4 inches.

 

10 Yards:

 

At 10 yards the Federal just starts to open up, though even so it's tough to count the 9 pellet holes.

 

The Winchester and S&B both had much wider spreads, though both stayed within an 8" average.

 

15 Yards:

 

It takes going to 15 for the Federal to finally start looking like buckshot, but even then that pattern is brutally tight. At this point I was desperately wishing we could have gone to 20 and 25 yards, but there wasn't enough range space.

 

As for the Win and S&B, the spreads were too wide to really make an effective photo. They typically landed the shot within the 1 foot radius, but were random enough that a picture looked pointless.

 

The Verdict:

 

Federal:

Boy, did this stuff make me happy. The nice, full power load cycled my Saiga with authority and the ultra-tight groups showed me that when Federal calls a shot "flitecontrolled", they mean it. Enough so that I pondered whether or not the patterns are too tight for CQB/defense use. Conventionally, peole look to shotguns for a widely dispersed "hard tissue damage" pattern, but at close ranges this stuff functioned more like a slug. Of course, the difference here is that rather than one big hit you're getting 9 little hits that are spiraling in like a buzz saw. Which is keen. I'd also easily trust this to make a hit at 30 or 40 yards, and probably wouldn't worry too much out to 50. And some penetration tests we did showed that the copper jackets on the shot really do help as well. I now consider this my "Zombie Killing" ammo of choice.

 

Winchester:

If all I was looking for is a good, conventional pattern, this Ranger stuff is what I'd prefer to go for...if it actually cycled my Saiga. At all. Even once. Which it did not. Every single round had to be manually ejected, regardless of the gas setting. The reduced recoil is just too damned light. Still, it did please me enough that it is now my new recommended load for pump-action house-hold defense guns.

 

S&B:

If you liked the Winchester pattern, the S&B is the way for you to go. Though not quite as tight, it was still very comparable, and the full power load cycled my Saiga like a champ.

 

 

And that's it. I hope y'all enjoyed it.

 

Those were just about the same kind of groupings I was getting from just about the same distance. That's about the best thing going for my Saiga right now.

[Deadeye008 2]

I patterned my 19" Saiga 12 a few weeks ago with the same Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 9 shot 00 buck used in this review. Only difference is that I have a polychoke on my gun. At the Extra Full setting I was putting 7 of the 9 pellets inside 6" at 20yds. I was very impressed. Also, my gun cycled very well with the low recoil loads.

[cscharlie 107]

Is the federal low recoil loading? What model number is on the box?

[gunfun 3,931]

Thanks to all you guys who have posted patterning and ammo comparisons. I have read a few, and I appreciate them greatly. I couldn't afford to try everything out, so knowing that s&b runs better than winchester is a good thing. I also like that your gun is pretty mcuch stock. Most of the highly scientific tests I have read were done with setups so modified, that I wasn't sure how well their results would compare to mine.

 

I have a few s&b 15 pellet 3" OO buck that I might pattern and maybe add the pics to your thread later if you don't mind. That way the pics will be in the same place.

 

I can say that I am considering doing a rough and dirty comparison post for cheap slugs.

So far, I can say that these B&P slugs shoot nice enough and feel like bird shot on the shoulder, but won't cycle. No group sizes yet. They had a very good price when I bought them. $54 / 100 shipped.. If I could get the heavier b&P I would. No complaints for the Remington or Winchester slugs though, other than somewhat higher cost per round.

Edited July 31, 2009 by GunFun

[beerasaurus 9]

I have a few s&b 15 pellet 3" OO buck that I might pattern and maybe add the pics to your thread later if you don't mind. That way the pics will be in the same place.

 

 

Thanks for the praise, and the more the marrier! I'd love to see both your buck and slug results.

[lvjeffro 30]

I patterned my 19" Saiga 12 a few weeks ago with the same Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 9 shot 00 buck used in this review. Only difference is that I have a polychoke on my gun. At the Extra Full setting I was putting 7 of the 9 pellets inside 6" at 20yds. I was very impressed. Also, my gun cycled very well with the low recoil loads.

 

I hope my new 109 likes the winLR 00 and slugs, I have a flat of each

[gunfun 3,931]

I patterned my 19" Saiga 12 a few weeks ago with the same Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 9 shot 00 buck used in this review. Only difference is that I have a polychoke on my gun. At the Extra Full setting I was putting 7 of the 9 pellets inside 6" at 20yds. I was very impressed. Also, my gun cycled very well with the low recoil loads.

 

I hope my new 109 likes the winLR 00 and slugs, I have a flat of each

 

 

Let us know and see how that works out.