lframke 1 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 There seems to be a flurry of Magwells hitting the market. Both seem to have there own design approach to the issue of inserting a loaded magazine. The JT operates without the front AK mag attachment hump. It is said that it inserts straight in without rocking. The Magazines MUST be modified to work, and will not work without the magwell after they are ground down. Cost is about $150. The Magwell from Jim at Firebird apparently uses the AK rock in insertion but NO magazine modifications are needed and all Saiga 12 mags will work. It also has a built in trigger housing. How does this magwell make loading on the closed bolt easier and dealing with the AK rock in insertion faster than no magwell? Is it just a funnel or does it actually make insertion easier? I have not yet seen even a approximate price for this magwell. Now I read about the great gains in speed from having the bolt reshaped and polished. With this modification alone is the rock in magwell necessary? How about the straight insertion magwell? Has anybody used BOTH? What about the Russian? I'm new to the Saiga, most of you have been shooting this platform for a long time and KNOW this Shotgun. What do YOU think of the two design approaches? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Do you plan on using an MD Arms drum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted August 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do you plan on using an MD Arms drum? I would rather have a quick trouble free magazine reload than the drum. Just not sure what Magwell is the best route,or if the Bolt polishing is all that's really needed. If the bolts polishing alone does the job a Drum might be fun to play with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do you plan on using an MD Arms drum? I would rather have a quick trouble free magazine reload than the drum. Just not sure what Magwell is the best route,or if the Bolt polishing is all that's really needed. If the bolts polishing alone does the job a Drum might be fun to play with. Sounds like a bolt profile and polish is all you really need. If you have spare time practice reloads if you want to get fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeAreLYHTxo It's a standard AK but with practice you can do it with an S-12, though with a 10-12 round mag it might be easier for you to reach over instead of under. Here is an S-12, the guy is pretty slow, he is using a full mag, but he spends more time "hunting" for the magwell, combine the two styles of reloads and you get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzdRgyfXPx0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Glockmonger 18 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Holy crap, and I thought I was slow. I really need to train more. This was last year or so, since then I cut and polished the Bolt, Bolt head and carrier in "custom" builds. I have also changed mag manufacturers. There is also world of difference when running drills or assessing multiple and or moving targets - then when your done with that.....have your friends shoot at you with air soft as you train. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do you plan on using an MD Arms drum? I would rather have a quick trouble free magazine reload than the drum. Just not sure what Magwell is the best route,or if the Bolt polishing is all that's really needed. If the bolts polishing alone does the job a Drum might be fun to play with. Sounds like a bolt profile and polish is all you really need. If you have spare time practice reloads if you want to get fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeAreLYHTxo It's a standard AK but with practice you can do it with an S-12, though with a 10-12 round mag it might be easier for you to reach over instead of under. Here is an S-12, the guy is pretty slow, he is using a full mag, but he spends more time "hunting" for the magwell, combine the two styles of reloads and you get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzdRgyfXPx0 Holy crap, and I thought I was slow. I really need to train more. This was last year or so, since then I cut and polished the Bolt, Bolt head and carrier in "custom" builds. I have also changed mag manufacturers. There is also world of difference when running drills or assessing multiple and or moving targets - then when your done with that.....have your friends shoot at you with air soft as you train. Now this is more like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do you plan on using an MD Arms drum? I would rather have a quick trouble free magazine reload than the drum. Just not sure what Magwell is the best route,or if the Bolt polishing is all that's really needed. If the bolts polishing alone does the job a Drum might be fun to play with. Sounds like a bolt profile and polish is all you really need. If you have spare time practice reloads if you want to get fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeAreLYHTxo It's a standard AK but with practice you can do it with an S-12, though with a 10-12 round mag it might be easier for you to reach over instead of under. Here is an S-12, the guy is pretty slow, he is using a full mag, but he spends more time "hunting" for the magwell, combine the two styles of reloads and you get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzdRgyfXPx0 Holy crap, and I thought I was slow. I really need to train more. This was last year or so, since then I cut and polished the Bolt, Bolt head and carrier in "custom" builds. I have also changed mag manufacturers. There is also world of difference when running drills or assessing multiple and or moving targets - then when your done with that.....have your friends shoot at you with air soft as you train. Now this is more like it. Heay Cobra, maybe I need to make some electronic pop up targets and buy you an airsoft gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I consider the magwell another "Tool" which gives diversity to the Saiga Weapons Platform. I would recommend, along with the magwell, the bolt be contoured/blended/polished for both "Rock N Lock" function, plus the added benefit of reducing friction during the cycle of the action. This way, the magwell may be removed, and then a drum may be utilized or mags for RNL. Of course you would need two sets of magazines. Some for the magwell and the others for RNL. I will get some video when I head back to Louisiana of mag changes with the magwell. They are much faster than the Rock N Lock. Dean Makos has probably one of the fastest Rock N Lock mag changes with the Saiga, and I can beat him no problem with the magwell. (We shoot togeter all the time) I think there is a video on you tube. Having the magwell just gives you more options. Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crusader 64 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I consider the magwell another "Tool" which gives diversity to the Saiga Weapons Platform. I would recommend, along with the magwell, the bolt be contoured/blended/polished for both "Rocl N Lock" function, plus the added benefit of reducing friction during the cycle of the action. This way, the magwell may be removed, and then a drum may be utilized or mags for RNL. Of course you would need two sets of magazines. Some for the magwell and the others for RNL. I will get some video when I head back to Louisiana of mag changes with the magwell. They are much faster than the Rock N Lock. Dean Makos has probably one of the fastest Rock N Lock mag changes with the Saiga, and I can beat him no problem with the magwell. (We shoot togeter all the time) I think there is a video on you tube. Having the magwell just gives you more options. Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Can I use a hand held dremal tool or hand drill to drill the holes in the reciever for the magwell while using the magwell as a template? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I consider the magwell another "Tool" which gives diversity to the Saiga Weapons Platform. I would recommend, along with the magwell, the bolt be contoured/blended/polished for both "Rocl N Lock" function, plus the added benefit of reducing friction during the cycle of the action. This way, the magwell may be removed, and then a drum may be utilized or mags for RNL. Of course you would need two sets of magazines. Some for the magwell and the others for RNL. I will get some video when I head back to Louisiana of mag changes with the magwell. They are much faster than the Rock N Lock. Dean Makos has probably one of the fastest Rock N Lock mag changes with the Saiga, and I can beat him no problem with the magwell. (We shoot togeter all the time) I think there is a video on you tube. Having the magwell just gives you more options. Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Can I use a hand held dremal tool or hand drill to drill the holes in the reciever for the magwell while using the magwell as a template? Absolutely, whatever you are comfortable with. Main thing is locating the hole/scribing it dead on, use a good prickpunch then centerpunch and drill. Jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I consider the magwell another "Tool" which gives diversity to the Saiga Weapons Platform. I would recommend, along with the magwell, the bolt be contoured/blended/polished for both "Rock N Lock" function, plus the added benefit of reducing friction during the cycle of the action. This way, the magwell may be removed, and then a drum may be utilized or mags for RNL. Of course you would need two sets of magazines. Some for the magwell and the others for RNL. I will get some video when I head back to Louisiana of mag changes with the magwell. They are much faster than the Rock N Lock. Dean Makos has probably one of the fastest Rock N Lock mag changes with the Saiga, and I can beat him no problem with the magwell. (We shoot togeter all the time) I think there is a video on you tube. Having the magwell just gives you more options. Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Any chance that you will offer a PACKAGE price? The magwell and the bolt work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I consider the magwell another "Tool" which gives diversity to the Saiga Weapons Platform. I would recommend, along with the magwell, the bolt be contoured/blended/polished for both "Rock N Lock" function, plus the added benefit of reducing friction during the cycle of the action. This way, the magwell may be removed, and then a drum may be utilized or mags for RNL. Of course you would need two sets of magazines. Some for the magwell and the others for RNL. I will get some video when I head back to Louisiana of mag changes with the magwell. They are much faster than the Rock N Lock. Dean Makos has probably one of the fastest Rock N Lock mag changes with the Saiga, and I can beat him no problem with the magwell. (We shoot togeter all the time) I think there is a video on you tube. Having the magwell just gives you more options. Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Any chance that you will offer a PACKAGE price? The magwell and the bolt work? Once I get back from the Arkansas 3 Gun Competition I am going to focus on this. Like Tony, I am going to back out of building the High End Competition Saigas'. Too much time and too little return. If I charged what I actually had in them, people would laugh. Jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I consider the magwell another "Tool" which gives diversity to the Saiga Weapons Platform. I would recommend, along with the magwell, the bolt be contoured/blended/polished for both "Rock N Lock" function, plus the added benefit of reducing friction during the cycle of the action. This way, the magwell may be removed, and then a drum may be utilized or mags for RNL. Of course you would need two sets of magazines. Some for the magwell and the others for RNL. I will get some video when I head back to Louisiana of mag changes with the magwell. They are much faster than the Rock N Lock. Dean Makos has probably one of the fastest Rock N Lock mag changes with the Saiga, and I can beat him no problem with the magwell. (We shoot togeter all the time) I think there is a video on you tube. Having the magwell just gives you more options. Jack Travers JT Engineering/Millennium Custom Any chance that you will offer a PACKAGE price? The magwell and the bolt work? Once I get back from the Arkansas 3 Gun Competition I am going to focus on this. Like Tony, I am going to back out of building the High End Competition Saigas'. Too much time and too little return. If I charged what I actually had in them, people would laugh. Jack Good luck at the Match! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Glockmonger 18 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hey Jack, I could not find those vids on youtube. I would like to see some vids of S12 work/training. NOT AK47/74 STUFF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I will see if I can find it later. It has been over a year since I have seen it. I have got to get the videos done when I get back to Louisiana. Jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buttmaster 0 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Has any used the R7R Magwell http://www.speedshooter.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=S-03 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
destroytec 2 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 the R&R magwell is a modified JT magwell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaymce 7 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) If you are going to buy one get it straight from Jack. Not only is he a business member here is is also the one who originally came up with both designs. The one that R&R is selling (old design) and the new design that Jack is selling which is much better. The new ones have magwell flairs and look 100% better than the old design. Please note that these are not Jacks Pics but some crappy ones I took. I am sure Jack will be along to post some good ones. I would post pics of it installed but need to get some Surefires before I attempt the install. Thanks for a nice piece Jack. Edited September 7, 2009 by jaymce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If you are going to buy one get it straight from Jack. Not only is he a business member here is is also the one who originally came up with both designs. The one that R&R is selling (old design) and the new design that Jack is selling which is much better. The new ones have magwell flairs and look 100% better than the old design. Please note that these are not Jacks Pics but some crappy ones I took. I am sure Jack will be along to post some good ones. I would post pics of it installed but need to get some Surefires before I attempt the install. Thanks for a nice piece Jack. I bought the JT Surefire Magwell from CSS. I installed it and had a question, I called Greg at CSS who answered my question. I also was able to contact Jack, he was very helpful and concurred with everything Gregg had told me. You can't go wrong buying from Greg at CSS. Same price as direct and Gregg KNOWS the products that he sells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I use all the parts I sell and I am always around to answer any questions about them. The new flared design is a huge improvement over the old one. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/se...il?sfs=7b88159e Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buttmaster 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Crap...I already purchased one before I found out about Jacks new one. How do i mod the mags to work. I think i shaved a little too much off my 5 rnd factory mag and it falls out when i close the bolt. I need to by some Surefire mags and play with them but i want to make sure it will work. If i decide to by a JT magwell, do you know if the holes I drilled for the R&R are in the same location? Thanks for your responses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stimpsonjcat 0 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 The angle on that device looks familiar... Stare at that for a sec and it will be obvious what the rock in mag well does to aid in loading. It's a nice piece though, glad to see someone finally got one to market. It'll be taken as heresy, but I have all but stopped shooting my S12 in competition as I prefer to shoot heavy class these days and that requires the pump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buttmaster 0 Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Man, i hope my R7R magwell is not a rock in magwell. That seems a little piontless. Since I F*&$%d up my 5 rnd mag trying to make it work with the R7R; I took a good look at it (the magwell) and the inside of front of the the magwell slopes all the way up to where it meets the reciever. Which, judging from the pics above the JT magwell does not. It looks like there is a straight section leading into the reciever, which i am asuming is what holds the mag in place once the front lug is removed. Any body have a solution that doesn't involve me spending another $150 bucks??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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