BHO or not?

[jeepranch 16]

getting ready to convert my 545, and seriously considering leaving out the bolt hold open, as it has no place in a battle rifle AK, comments? reasons not to? thanks

Bill

[Azrial 1,091]

getting ready to convert my 545, and seriously considering leaving out the bolt hold open, as it has no place in a battle rifle AK, comments? reasons not to? thanks Bill

You have already come up with your own reason, so why ask? I say the only reason to leave a part out of your gun is that you are too inept to reinstall it after the conversion restoration. Also plenty of combat arms have a BHO, the AK left it out for economy, no other reason.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Azrial

[thehopping1 105]

Plus it's not that hard to make it a little more useful. That little spring can be a bitch, but after doing it five times it's not so bad.

[nalioth 405]

getting ready to convert my 545, and seriously considering leaving out the bolt hold open, as it has no place in a battle rifle AK, comments? reasons not to? thanks Bill

You have already come up with your own reason, so why ask? I say the only reason to leave a part out of your gun is that you are too inept to reinstall it after the conversion restoration. Also plenty of combat arms have a functional last round BHO, the AK left it out for economy, no other reason.

Made a little edit for ya.

 

The "BHO" in the Saigas was not very well thought out, and IMHO, only exists to give them "importation points" as "sporting guns" ( apparently "sporting rifles/shotguns" have bolt hold opens ).

 

Your "plenty of combat arms" for the most part include "last round bolt hold open" functionality [in fact, I can't think of a BHO-equipped combat rifle where the BHO isn't applied by the empty magazine]

[Twinsen 86]

The ones where the charging handle locks into a notch are that way.

[jeepranch 16]

not hearing anything to change my mind, so since I have to weld up the side holes, Ill just weld that hole up as well.

[Azrial 1,091]

getting ready to convert my 545, and seriously considering leaving out the bolt hold open, as it has no place in a battle rifle AK, comments? reasons not to? thanks Bill

You have already come up with your own reason, so why ask? I say the only reason to leave a part out of your gun is that you are too inept to reinstall it after the conversion restoration. Also plenty of combat arms have a functional last round BHO, the AK left it out for economy, no other reason.

Made a little edit for ya.

 

The "BHO" in the Saigas was not very well thought out, and IMHO, only exists to give them "importation points" as "sporting guns" ( apparently "sporting rifles/shotguns" have bolt hold opens ).

 

Your "plenty of combat arms" for the most part include "last round bolt hold open" functionality [in fact, I can't think of a BHO-equipped combat rifle where the BHO isn't applied by the empty magazine]

The manual of arms of all Combat Arms I am aware of makes use of the manual application of the BHO not just the LRBHO. It serves a purpose on these firearms and it does the Saiga as well.

[jeepranch 16]

getting ready to convert my 545, and seriously considering leaving out the bolt hold open, as it has no place in a battle rifle AK, comments? reasons not to? thanks Bill

You have already come up with your own reason, so why ask? I say the only reason to leave a part out of your gun is that you are too inept to reinstall it after the conversion restoration. Also plenty of combat arms have a functional last round BHO, the AK left it out for economy, no other reason.

Made a little edit for ya.

 

The "BHO" in the Saigas was not very well thought out, and IMHO, only exists to give them "importation points" as "sporting guns" ( apparently "sporting rifles/shotguns" have bolt hold opens ).

 

Your "plenty of combat arms" for the most part include "last round bolt hold open" functionality [in fact, I can't think of a BHO-equipped combat rifle where the BHO isn't applied by the empty magazine]

The manual of arms of all Combat Arms I am aware of makes use of the manual application of the BHO not just the LRBHO. It serves a purpose on these firearms and it does the Saiga as well.

Link is bad, Id like know what that application is, saiga 12 I understand, this one I dont

[nalioth 405]

 

The manual of arms of all Combat Arms I am aware of makes use of the manual application of the BHO not just the LRBHO. It serves a purpose on these firearms and it does the Saiga as well.

Link is bad, Id like know what that application is, saiga 12 I understand, this one I dont

It's not a link, but an underline.

 

He's saying that some facets of the manual of arms for most militaries involve the soldier manually operating the bolt hold open.

 

This is besides the point that every military rifle I know of that has a BHO, the BHO is also activated by an empty magazine (unlike the Saiga).

[Azrial 1,091]

The manual of arms of all Combat Arms I am aware of makes use of the manual application of the BHO not just the LRBHO. It serves a purpose on these firearms and it does the Saiga as well.

Link is bad, Id like know what that application is, saiga 12 I understand, this one I dont

It's not a link, but an underline.

 

He's saying that some facets of the manual of arms for most militaries involve the soldier manually operating the bolt hold open.

 

This is besides the point that every military rifle I know of that has a BHO, the BHO is also activated by an empty magazine (unlike the Saiga).

 

Exactly, I am saying that the lack of one function does not devalue another.

[jimdigriz 580]

getting ready to convert my 545, and seriously considering leaving out the bolt hold open, as it has no place in a battle rifle AK, comments? reasons not to? thanks

Bill

 

I chose to leave mine out. I got a very nice Red Star Arms trigger group, and didn't want to have to alter it in any way. I do need a BHO for range purposes, though, so I picked up the Krebs safety with the notch. In retrospect, I should have just sent the safety lever I had to the guy who will mod them for a fairly low price. Much cheaper that way.

[jeepranch 16]

well I deceided to put the BHO back in, my son invented a trick thats a variation of the floss, but uses a small strand of copper wire. So its not issue getting it back in, my point was reliability. BTW, you havent lived until youve broken off a tap in the bullet guide hole, what a pain that was to get out. Obviouly it had been awhile since I had tapped anything that small.

[nalioth 405]

well I deceided to put the BHO back in, my son invented a trick thats a variation of the floss, but uses a small strand of copper wire. So its not issue getting it back in, my point was reliability. BTW, you havent lived until youve broken off a tap in the bullet guide hole, what a pain that was to get out. Obviouly it had been awhile since I had tapped anything that small.

If you're gonna have the accursed thing in your gun, make sure you grind it off so you don't engage it all the time with your normal firing grip.

[alaj70 3]

well I deceided to put the BHO back in, my son invented a trick thats a variation of the floss, but uses a small strand of copper wire. So its not issue getting it back in, my point was reliability. BTW, you havent lived until youve broken off a tap in the bullet guide hole, what a pain that was to get out. Obviouly it had been awhile since I had tapped anything that small.

 

jeepranch,

 

On the BHO, I vote to keep it. Frankly, it's not that difficult to "shave" the hammer down, and you can make a slight modification to the BHO that will minimize how much it sticks out when not in use. Very easy...just mark it when it's locked into place, and use a Dremel to cut the "extra" material off the BHO.

 

And, with the dental floss trick (or the copper wire), it's not that hard to reinstall. Besides, I like the fact that I can lock the bolt open.

 

With regards to the bullet guide, I hear ya!

 

I installed a bullet guide in my current Saiga conversion project today. Not only did I snap one of the taps, I snapped a second one, which I had ordered for my next conversion project.

 

Luckily, I was able to drill-out the first broken tap, without much of a challenge. And, the second one, was broken well above the hole. So, I was able to take a pair of pliers and twist it out.

 

With no taps left, I was forced to go to Farm & Fleet (a local big-box hardware store) to grab some new ones. Fortunately, in using the new store-bought tap, I was able to get the bullet guide hole tapped fairly quickly, and it works just fine now.

 

Additionally, I modified the bullet guide to give it a slight 45 degree angle on the aft end to create a slight "ramp" effect. I did this with a small detail file, and I finished it off with some Cratex (medium and fine) spindles in my Dremel tool.

 

Lastly, I cleaned the tapped hole of all oil residue (left over from the tapping process). And, I cleaned the bullet guide from any oil residue as well.

 

Next, I took an ear-swab and dabbed some Gibb's lubricant on the trunnion, as well as the bullet guide, in order to provide some protection to the metal, before marrying them together.

 

Finally, I added a generous dab of "blue" Loctite to the machine screw, and affixed the bullet guide to the trunnion via the newly tapped hole. It seems very secure now.

 

Let's just say that I breathed a big sigh of relief when it was done. I have to say this was the most nerve-racking part of my first conversion.

 

For those who are pondering the installation of a bullet guide, here are some of my take-aways:

* Go slow!!! Only turn the tap a 1/16 of a turn each time.

* Use lots of oil and blow the hole AND tap free of metal shavings each turn with an air compressor.

* Use a drill press, if you have one. I'm not sure how you would get a good (straight) angle on the hole, hold the receiver, and maintain a consistent pressure on the hole, without one. The drill press method works, but as mentioned...I did run into some problems.

* Go slow!!! I know I mentioned this already, but trust me...only use a little turn each time, gang.

 

Anyway, in the end, it all worked out and I'm looking forward to getting my first Saiga conversion done.

 

Cheers,

 

alaj70

[Azrial 1,091]

If you're gonna have the accursed thing in your gun, make sure you grind it off so you don't engage it all the time with your normal firing grip.

You know, I have read of others with this problem however, I have never seen this happen when I was fireing. Odd.

[jeepranch 16]

If you're gonna have the accursed thing in your gun, make sure you grind it off so you don't engage it all the time with your normal firing grip.

You know, I have read of others with this problem however, I have never seen this happen when I was fireing. Odd.

x2

 

I have my converstion 98 percent complete, Ill post up a pic tomorrow. Gas piston change out was easy, much easier than the bullet guide. The tap broke off below the metal, so .........it was difficult.

[Paulry 50]

I always keep them out. It is not a normal thing for the AK design and could lead to function issues. You going to put training wheels on your Harley because it's handy?

[Azrial 1,091]

I always keep them out. It is not a normal thing for the AK design and could lead to function issues.

Simplistic. The same could be said for a 12 guage shell.

You going to put training wheels on your Harley because it's handy?

You going to leave the shocks off your Harley because they are too tough to reinstall? After all the original models did not have them...

 

Will this retarded argument never end of "how they were originally designed..."

Edited September 20, 2009 by Azrial

[jeepranch 16]

heres almost the final product