Which Caliber?

[Bucky G 4]

Howdy and sorry if this question has been beat to death

 

I'm looking to buy a saiga but I'm not sure what caliber

I got an SKS in 7.62x39 with Tapco furniture with a red dot that I like... it's a real good shooter

so I'm not sure if I should get the saiga in 7.62x39 or choose a different caliber like .223, .308, or 5.45

I live in Kalifornia and my shooting is all humping through the desert plinking, shooting jack rabbits and an occasional coyote

shots are anywhere from 25 feet to infinity

 

what say you?

thanks!

Edited October 23, 2009 by Bucky G

[saigafreake 27]

id go with a 5.45 for wat you like to do its cheap to shoot and plenty accurate out to several hundred yards.

[volkov 318]

there are people here with far more experience than me, so I'd value their opinions higher.. But from my own experience... 12 gauge all the way!!!

 

Yeah ok, that wasn't a choice..

Personally I like the 7.62 the most. .308 is sweet but the ammo costs are kinda crappy. And I don't really like much thats smaller then a 7.62.. But that's personal preference.. .223 can be easier to manage and all.. I just don't like the round much.. little too light for my tastes, but the army would disagree and they know more then me (seems no military really thinks that a 7.62 is superior to a 5.45 or .223 nowdays, and they probably have good reason). Guess it comes down to what you want.. I'm going to say 7.62 everytime because I've fired them all and I think its the best and most enjoyable bang for the buck (but I like a little bit of managable recoil and talking shit to my friends with ar-15s about their tiny rounds). it doesn't have the cheapest ammo, but it's affordable, and I prefer it.

 

And if you asked this question on an ar-15 forum I'm pretty sure you'd get a very different answer then I think your likely to get here.. ".223 is faster.. blah blah blah".. To which my biased response is "not if it's suppressed and has to use sub-sonic" and the debate goes on. But as this is first and foremost a 12 gauge forum, it might be more balanced then either a diehard ar-15 or ak-47, although I expect a good amount of people are going to be ak fans and lean towards the 7.62.. Just my thoughts.. Probably best you find someone who owns both, I don't have a saiga .223

[Bucky G 4]

id go with a 5.45 for wat you like to do its cheap to shoot and plenty accurate out to several hundred yards.

 

thanks

I've really been considering that one since I don't have anything in .22x right now

but I've been reading here and the guys are saying they're getting rust from the surplus stuff

I clean my rifle about once every couple years

I guess I could shoot the silver bear or something instead of the bulk tins

[Bucky G 4]

there are people here with far more experience than me, so I'd value their opinions higher.. But from my own experience... 12 gauge all the way!!!

 

Yeah ok, that wasn't a choice..

Personally I like the 7.62 the most. .308 is sweet but the ammo costs are kinda crappy. And I don't really like much thats smaller then a 7.62.. But that's personal preference.. .223 can be easier to manage and all.. I just don't like the round much.. little too light for my tastes, but the army would disagree and they know more then me (seems no military really thinks that a 7.62 is superior to a 5.45 or .223 nowdays, and they probably have good reason). Guess it comes down to what you want.. I'm going to say 7.62 everytime because I've fired them all and I think its the best and most enjoyable bang for the buck (but I like a little bit of managable recoil and talking shit to my friends with ar-15s about their tiny rounds). it doesn't have the cheapest ammo, but it's affordable, and I prefer it.

 

And if you asked this question on an ar-15 forum I'm pretty sure you'd get a very different answer then I think your likely to get here.. ".223 is faster.. blah blah blah".. To which my biased response is "not if it's suppressed and has to use sub-sonic" and the debate goes on. But as this is first and foremost a 12 gauge forum, it might be more balanced then either a diehard ar-15 or ak-47, although I expect a good amount of people are going to be ak fans and lean towards the 7.62.. Just my thoughts.. Probably best you find someone who owns both, I don't have a saiga .223

 

I like .308 also but the saiga in .308 is getting pricey.

and I'm already getting a permanent sling groove in my shoulders from the SKS, how heavy is the saiga 308?

[saigafreake 27]

even with out surplus its still cheap to shoot. i shoot mostly wolf and barnaul out my 5.45 guns.

[Bucky G 4]

even with out surplus its still cheap to shoot. i shoot mostly wolf and barnaul out my 5.45 guns.

 

that's what I was thinking

I was ready to buy a 5.45 from one Atlantic if they have them in stock, but I thought I should check with you saiga guys first

is the accuracy anywhere near an AR15 with your 5.45's?

[Bvamp 604]

couple things for you to consider -

 

do you want a rifle that shares the same cartridge as your SKS for interchangeability with your ammo locker? (7.62x39 in multiple rifles is a nice thing to have)

 

how much do you like to shoot with ammo at current prices? (citing 308 ammo costs)

 

do you want to have to dunk your rifle in water when you get back home to kill corrosive salts (5.45x39 consideration)

 

is ammo around at the corner store being available an issue? (bringing the 223 and 308 into the fold)

 

do you want to be able to take large game with it when its in season and you have the shot opportunity? (308 and possible 12 gauge points)

 

 

 

I would seriously lean you tword the 223 or 7.62x39, actually. the 223 and 5.45 are pulling the most accuracy, with the 308 coming in very close as well.

 

You mentioned you dont plan to clean the hell out of the weapon. well, the saiga 12 i own, I have completely cleaned like 3 times since 2001, and have 10k+ rounds down it. it has seen all weather, to boot. It likes that. The saiga platform is probably the #1 choice for that consideration, so you are thinking good, on those lines.

 

you are asking for something practical, that you dont have to scrub clean when you shoot it.

 

 

if it were based on NO OTHER FACTS other than accuracy downrange (for varmints) and ammo commonality, i would have to say 223. because of your SKS, I am adding the 7.62x39 into the mix, and because of ammo cheapness over the internet as well as accuracy, the 5.45 would be my third place recommendation for you, in your case.

 

 

it really depends on how you value the issues I describe to you as a shooter.

 

any way you go, even if its the 308, the saiga rifles are a hell of a lotta bang for the buck, hands down, especially for the use you are suggesting.

 

I think the only un-converted rifle models I have in stock right now are the 5.45's, however. I do have a few 19" and 24" saiga 12 gauges in stock if you want to go that route. It is one HELL of a shotgun, and is really worth your consideration, even with the purposes you are suggesting.it might not have the 300 yard range you want, but I tell ya what, anything closer than 100 yards is in serious trouble......and like the saiga rifles, it WONT fail you, either, when you pack it around and dont clean it all week in the CA desert.

[seanie 6]

Why not just stick with the x39 if you've already got an SKS? If you're just plinking, it's not like you'll be using it for different game.

[Bvamp 604]

EXACTLY. was one of my points, and I shoulda stressed it harder.....real big point for suggesting a 7.62x39

[imarangemaster 315]

Not only can you readily reload 7.62x39 (you can even use .308s if that is all you have) but you can cast hardcast bullets with wheel weight and use 16 grns 2400 (I THINK) and it will work the action.

[ljv308 3]

Stick with the 7.62 x 39 and you only have to stockpile 1 type of Ammo for your rifles.

[Bizzarolibe 5]

My input: get the rifle in the caliber that the platform was designed to use. I'm not saying the .223 or .308's etc. aren't good rifles (some day I'll own both), but if you just have to have one, I'd go with the 7.62x39. The recoil is next to nothing, the ammo is generally the cheapest and/or easiest to find of all the ammo mentioned, and it will (quickly) kill anything up to and including a large buck. Honestly though, any Saiga is a great choice.

 

Nice looking SKS by the way, that's very tastfully done.

[Bucky G 4]

Thanks guys

if I'm going to shoot x39 I'll just use the SKS, unless you have a good reason or think the saiga in x39 is just so much better

 

I wanted a lighter, flatter shooting gun for what I do... I'm thinking of building up an AR, but for now I want something cheap and ready to go

that's why I'm thinking the 5.45, it won't be redundant when I build up the AR and it is the current round in that platform

I don't envision cleaning my gun with water anytime soon so I just won't shoot corrosive stuff

 

hey what does a saiga 12 go for?

 

BVamp... could you let me know a price on the 5.45, you can post it here or pm, whatever you choose

[jimdigriz 580]

even with out surplus its still cheap to shoot. i shoot mostly wolf and barnaul out my 5.45 guns.

 

that's what I was thinking

I was ready to buy a 5.45 from one Atlantic if they have them in stock, but I thought I should check with you saiga guys first

is the accuracy anywhere near an AR15 with your 5.45's?

 

If you're not using corrosive military surplus, 7.62x39 will be cheaper or about the same as 5.45x39, according to this roundup of ammo prices:

http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=7.62x39

 

In that case, you'd be better sticking with the caliber you already have, for simplicity.

 

I'm the one who posted about rust with the corrosive ammo. But the rust is my fault, since I didn't fully understand how to properly clean the gun after firing the corrosive ammo. Now I do. Still, it's a pain in the butt to have to clean after each range session. Not a big deal, since this gun is my wife's, and won't be fired more than once a month. But I'm like you, I don't clean that often usually, when it comes to non-corrosive ammo.

 

Jim

[volkov 318]

I wouldn't be too afraid of either the .223 or the x39 for a concern about variety- it's a different gun regardless than either an SKS or an AR. Also, I personally don't feel that the 5.45 is different enough from the .223 to consider the margin of variety worth the trouble over the ammo stocking frustrations of having two very simular and completly incompatible guns (someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I havn't fired the saiga in .223, only ar-15s). As far as weight they are all going to be pretty simular since they are all based on the same design.. I havn't pulled out the scales to weigh them, but thats because I've never really felt the need, someone might be able to answer that better then me.. the barrels, gas systems, bolt size/pistons vs pucks are the main differnces that come to mind, but I don't know that they are enough to be significant when you consider that the materials and reciever are essentially the same.. Also it kind of depends on what HGs and stock you throw on it since theres a huge variety..

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

If you are either well off financially or you are open to reloading the 308 hands down. Especially given your location and the possible usefulness of the greatly increased range. The 16" 308 is going to be a couple more pounds loaded than the x39 and mags are going to run 3-4x the cost of cheap metal x39.

 

Although its not quite that clear x39 steel case is running about .25 a round while 308 steel is running .40 a round, brass reloading for .16 a round. So after the inital cost of brass 308 it becomes cheaper than the x39 for now.

 

Lot of people arent considering imported ammo isnt going to go down much further with a Dollar that is weakening by the second. Dont even delude yourself into thinking that isnt going to be felt eventually.

 

So its best not to include the idea of cheap foreign imports of x39 or any ammo for long range planning.

 

Besides there's nothing like hitting at 400m reliably to make you feel all tingly. At least until you start getting hits at 500m...god I'm jealous of you guys out west.

[Paulry 50]

I'd have to go with the .223. You may have problems mail ordering surplus ammo to Kali. and the .223 is better suiited to your types of hunting. The cost is also lowest (next to total surplus corrosive ammo)

[vulcan16 971]

.223

 

This past summer 7.62 ammo was scarce locally. In the spring .223 was scarce.

I own 2 Saiga .223's,a WASR 10 and a Draco AK pistol in 7.62.

If one caliber ammo is scarce, the other is usually available.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

[BKLYN_C 14]

Look at it from this perspective.

If you get 7.62x39 you will not have to buy additional ammo if you already filled your closet with it.

If you buy something else you will have to spend another little fortune on the ammo and allocate another closet for it.

 

So, 7.62 seems as more economically attractive option

[Bucky G 4]

now I got too many options, shoulda just bought the 5.45 when I had my mind set on it

I'm thinking 308 now, saw it for a good price online and I do shoot way out there sometimes with my buddies

they call coyotes near our place, the treeline where they emerge stretches out to a thousand yards or so

[bigj480 203]

5.45 or 7.62 is my vote. Also, rust is no more a problem with 5,45 saigas than it is with all of the others. You don't have to shoot corrosive ammo at all, so don't consider that as a factor. also, it's not so hard at all to clean you rifle after using corrosive ammo if you do choose to shoot it. You do need to clean your rifle shortly after shooting, though. Honestly, I would go with a 7.62 since you already have an sks and because it is the most popular Kalashnikov caliber.

Edited October 24, 2009 by bigj480

[Arik 565]

I have the 308 with the 20in barrel. The kick isnt bad at all. To me, its slightly more than the x39. However it is heaver. And it feals more front heavy. If youre going to be hicking with it you might want to consider that. I dont mind it but some people do. Main thing is ammo is a bit more expancive. I've found the cheapest to be Wolf, about $230/500rds at gun shows, and sometimes online stores have Brown Bear for that price delivered.

 

My linkhttp://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct812.aspx

 

Or you could allways reload

[Bucky G 4]

I have the 308 with the 20in barrel. The kick isnt bad at all. To me, its slightly more than the x39. However it is heaver. And it feals more front heavy. If youre going to be hicking with it you might want to consider that. I dont mind it but some people do. Main thing is ammo is a bit more expancive. I've found the cheapest to be Wolf, about $230/500rds at gun shows, and sometimes online stores have Brown Bear for that price delivered.

 

My linkhttp://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct812.aspx

 

Or you could allways reload

 

is it heavier than an SKS?

wonder if the 16" is front heavy also

[jimdigriz 580]

I have the 308 with the 20in barrel. The kick isnt bad at all. To me, its slightly more than the x39. However it is heaver. And it feals more front heavy. If youre going to be hicking with it you might want to consider that. I dont mind it but some people do. Main thing is ammo is a bit more expancive. I've found the cheapest to be Wolf, about $230/500rds at gun shows, and sometimes online stores have Brown Bear for that price delivered.

 

My linkhttp://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct812.aspx

 

Or you could allways reload

 

is it heavier than an SKS?

wonder if the 16" is front heavy also

 

Probably considerably less so. If I remember correctly, the 4 extra inches on the 20 inch barrel of the 7.62x39 adds close to half a pound over the 16 inch version. The 22 inch barrel of the longer 308 would add even more. Also, the further the weight is from your body, the more heavier it will feel.

[Arik 565]

I have the 308 with the 20in barrel. The kick isnt bad at all. To me, its slightly more than the x39. However it is heaver. And it feals more front heavy. If youre going to be hicking with it you might want to consider that. I dont mind it but some people do. Main thing is ammo is a bit more expancive. I've found the cheapest to be Wolf, about $230/500rds at gun shows, and sometimes online stores have Brown Bear for that price delivered.

 

My linkhttp://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct812.aspx

 

Or you could allways reload

 

is it heavier than an SKS?

wonder if the 16" is front heavy also

 

Probably considerably less so. If I remember correctly, the 4 extra inches on the 20 inch barrel of the 7.62x39 adds close to half a pound over the 16 inch version. The 22 inch barrel of the longer 308 would add even more. Also, the further the weight is from your body, the more heavier it will feel.

 

Honestly I never held an SKS long enough to tell the difference. But the sks will most likely feel better balanced due to the full wood stock.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

To shoot the 21" S308 for any long period of time standing(unsupported) requires decent upper body strength, proper shooting sling use, and good NPOA because it can wear you out. You have to get the weight on bone not muscle. This of course is just good marksmanship. Toting it around isnt a problem since we are not talking about a combat load out.

 

Same can be said for a Garand or any heavy caliber rifle (really any rifle but its critical here). You can of course help this with a 8 round mag instead of a 20 and keeping any additional weight as far to the rear as possible.

That's the whole reason most people prefer a 16" carbine in 223 or x39. Recoil from the 308 is much heavier than x39 as far as getting back on target, lot more energy being developed. Here is where practice makes the difference along with a brake.

 

But then again it only takes one shot. Its more of a rifleman's weapon is all.