Yet another AGP failure due to cold weather!!!

[Crusader 64]

Librals undermine our Constitutional Republic. They should have to regisiter.

[iteachsurfing 50]

Ah yes - another do-gooder group of liberals trying to make a name for themselves by taking away our rights and protecting us from ourselves!

 

I wish these "lawmakers" would be in a real world situation where they have to face the fact - "When seconds count and your life is on the line, the police are only minutes away....."

 

 

 

Enjoy this one.......

 

Loved the video ... classic!

 

Back to the mag issue ... why doesn't someone build them in cold blue steel?

Problem solved

Edited December 19, 2009 by iteachsurfing

[brickfield mfg 86]

UPDATE - AGP MAKES THIS RIGHT WITH GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!

I contacted AGP's customer service dept. explaining what happened, and they shipped a new mag. body no questions asked. But I notice there are some differences in the older and the newer "Gen 2" mags. - the newer ones have a thicker front locking tab. In these photos are the newer Gen 2 "B" on the left, and the older Gen 2 "A" on the right.

[Crusader 64]

I have never heard of a mag breaking when used in a magwell.

[brickfield mfg 86]

I have never heard of a mag breaking when used in a magwell.

I should just break down and install a mag. well, but can't do it at this time. Am I correct in the assumption that you don't need to lock the bolt open to insert a fully loaded mag. when using a mag. well? That right there would justify the cost in my opinion!

 

Or use something made from steel

Edited December 20, 2009 by 7.62m43

[gpqueen 545]

I have never heard of a mag breaking when used in a magwell.

 

I should just break down and install a mag. well, but can't do it at this time. Am I correct in the assumption that you don't need to lock the bolt open to insert a fully loaded mag. when using a mag. well? That right there would justify the cost in my opinion!

 

Or use something made from steel

The magwell does fix the problem of loading a full mag on a closed bolt.

When you use the "Rock and Lock" style load, you are trying to push down on a fully compressed spring and follower by pivoting on one small place on the front edge of the top shell.

It is very hard to load that way because it is binding the magazine internally.

 

When you insert a full mag in to the magwell you are locking it into position straight up which puts the contact point across the entire top shell and locks in very easily with about 10% of the force needed because it does not bind the magazine intenals.

It is much easier to load this way.

[madmax4x4 68]

I have never heard of a mag breaking when used in a magwell.

 

I should just break down and install a mag. well, but can't do it at this time. Am I correct in the assumption that you don't need to lock the bolt open to insert a fully loaded mag. when using a mag. well? That right there would justify the cost in my opinion!

 

Or use something made from steel

The magwell does fix the problem of loading a full mag on a closed bolt.

When you use the "Rock and Lock" style load, you are trying to push down on a fully compressed spring and follower by pivoting on one small place on the front edge of the top shell.

It is very hard to load that way because it is binding the magazine internally.

 

When you insert a full mag in to the magwell you are locking it into position straight up which puts the contact point across the entire top shell and locks in very easily with about 10% of the force needed because it does not bind the magazine intenals.

It is much easier to load this way.

I like the magwell

[Crusader 64]

I have never heard of a mag breaking when used in a magwell.

 

I should just break down and install a mag. well, but can't do it at this time. Am I correct in the assumption that you don't need to lock the bolt open to insert a fully loaded mag. when using a mag. well? That right there would justify the cost in my opinion!

 

Or use something made from steel

The magwell does fix the problem of loading a full mag on a closed bolt.

When you use the "Rock and Lock" style load, you are trying to push down on a fully compressed spring and follower by pivoting on one small place on the front edge of the top shell.

It is very hard to load that way because it is binding the magazine internally.

 

When you insert a full mag in to the magwell you are locking it into position straight up which puts the contact point across the entire top shell and locks in very easily with about 10% of the force needed because it does not bind the magazine intenals.

It is much easier to load this way.

I like the magwell

I would be very suprised if a mag broke while being used with a magwell. The mag is held in so much more securly than the conventional rock n lock.

[thedave8 0]

where do you get magwell and info to install?

[Crusader 64]

where do you get magwell and info to install?

CSS has them and they come with instructions. You can also search this forum for more info.

[thedave8 0]

thank you

[RobRez 1,895]

Well here we are, 2 weeks after my last post saying how my mags work fine in cold weather and........Blammo! Shooting today in 8 degree weather and my clear 10 round AGP mag blew apart just like the photo posted! Whadda ya know.... Shouldn't have opened my mouth! I really hope the Zombies never attack in winter!

[trichrome 1]

Well here we are, 2 weeks after my last post saying how my mags work fine in cold weather and........Blammo! Shooting today in 8 degree weather and my clear 10 round AGP mag blew apart just like the photo posted! Whadda ya know.... Shouldn't have opened my mouth! I really hope the Zombies never attack in winter!

i have had no problems shooting with agp's in sub zero weather (knock on wood) and have also found that even the gen 1 mags will cycle anything with some minor fitting of the follower and smoothing up of the mag body. i agree that steel is best. i think agp should consider a gen 3 = polymer body with a steel head if they want to keep up with the likes of cameron and mike.

[Whaledriver 0]

Took mine out today in 12 degree temp. Two shots and two broken mags. Not impressed. On a happier note the md drum mag was flawless on all ammo.

[brickfield mfg 86]

It was -18 degrees here this morning! I didn't even think about going outside until it got up to -5

 

Didn't dare even try anything but the factory 5 rounders in this weather.

[Nonemoreblacker 0]

Well, unfortunately I have to add myself to the list. I just received my "restored" Saiga 12, and took it to the range in 42 degree temperatures. Not a typo - actually a warm spell here in RI!

 

My gun worked flawlessly with russian 5 and Surefire 10, low brass no 3" shells.

Then I put in the Surefire 12 round, fired one round and the guy next to me yelled, "hey dude you dropped something." Turned out the lip on the mag snapped off and the mag with 11 rounds in it was lying on the ground. I have never,ever experienced a catastrophic failure like that with any other firearm that I have had and I have been shooting for almost 30 years.

 

I am really bummed. I spent a lot of money on this gun and the extra parts/work and now I am afraid that I can not actually trust my life to it if I need to.

I know some will say I could just use the 5 rounds and learn to reload quickly. Understood, however, I went with this platform specifically for the reliability of the platform and the capacity of large magazines.

 

Also, I am not bad mouthing Surefire, as I am sure they will take care of things properly under warranty, and the problem also seems common to other companies.

While I appreciate that adding a magwell will help, how much money should someone have to spend to have a reliable hi-capacity AK that I can trust my life to?

 

I believe I saw elsewhere in the forums that 8 rounds should be the limit in a magazine used for true defense and not just blasting rounds. Is it true, is it the weight combined with the weakness of the polymer that is causing the problems? Is it the weight reduction of 2-4 rounds that help?

[sudaevpps43 31]

Well, unfortunately I have to add myself to the list. I just received my "restored" Saiga 12, and took it to the range in 42 degree temperatures. Not a typo - actually a warm spell here in RI!

 

My gun worked flawlessly with russian 5 and Surefire 10, low brass no 3" shells.

Then I put in the Surefire 12 round, fired one round and the guy next to me yelled, "hey dude you dropped something." Turned out the lip on the mag snapped off and the mag with 11 rounds in it was lying on the ground. I have never,ever experienced a catastrophic failure like that with any other firearm that I have had and I have been shooting for almost 30 years.

 

I am really bummed. I spent a lot of money on this gun and the extra parts/work and now I am afraid that I can not actually trust my life to it if I need to.

I know some will say I could just use the 5 rounds and learn to reload quickly. Understood, however, I went with this platform specifically for the reliability of the platform and the capacity of large magazines.

 

Also, I am not bad mouthing Surefire, as I am sure they will take care of things properly under warranty, and the problem also seems common to other companies.

While I appreciate that adding a magwell will help, how much money should someone have to spend to have a reliable hi-capacity AK that I can trust my life to?

 

I believe I saw elsewhere in the forums that 8 rounds should be the limit in a magazine used for true defense and not just blasting rounds. Is it true, is it the weight combined with the weakness of the polymer that is causing the problems? Is it the weight reduction of 2-4 rounds that help?

 

In fairness AGP, Promag, and Surefire magazines were not made to be mil-spec magazines like the Russian mags are, so inevitably they will not be as durable as the Russian factory Saiga 12 magazines. From what I've gathered from various user reports on this forum, the general consensus seems to be that among U.S. made magazines, the ones that hold 8 or fewer rounds (like the 8 round AGP and Surefire mags) do not suffer from the problem of the front tab breaking off (even when firing high base magnum 3" shells). The generally accepted theory is that this is because the lower weight of ammo results in less inertial stress on the front locking tab during firing. So I would recommend going with 8 rounders, and as an aside even if the 10 and 12 rounders did not have the front tab breaking problem, I would stick with 8 rounders anyway, just like the Russian military does.

 

While the 10 and 12 round magazines are fun at the range, and good for shooting competitions where their increased capacity is a very useful asset, as a practical matter most shooters (including myself) find them to be just too long for serious social work (i.e. self-defense). IMHO a Saiga 12 with a 10 or 12 round mag is too cumbersome to maneuver inside a house, and so I stick with magazines holding no more than 8 rounds.

 

Finally, U.S. made magazines that will be as durable as the Russian factory mags are on the way from Chaos and MD Arms, so if you want mags that are as durable as the Russian 5 rounders but with an increased capacity, I would just wait for these (and go with 8 round AGP or Surefire mags if you want something to use in the meantime).

Edited January 18, 2010 by Frogfoot

[Nonemoreblacker 0]

Thanks for the reply Frogfoot, and thanks for confirming the 8 round recco for reliability on mags. That will definitely be what I use until the metal mags are available.

Of any problem to have on day one after mods, busted magazine was definitely the easiest to fix.