noob question

[ACE13 0]

hey im new here but not new to forums in general by any means so i will attempt to keep the dumb questions to a minimum. first off does the tapco intrafuse t6 stock count as a pistol grip?(link My link ) if not that would not raise my foreign parts to 15 so i would need 4 more parts to comply. (14-4=10) if it does then since its an integrated piece does it count as two pieces? second, since this stock wont require me to change the trigger in any way what other suggestions of us made parts do yall have. my guess would be handgaurd, the stock (pending wether or not its one or two pieces), magazine, bullet guide, follower and floorplate.

 

 

thanks in advance for any help, i did try and search through here when lurking the past few days but i still find myself with these questions

[chevyman097 2,579]

I think it only counts as one as its is bolted together. But im not sure, I would just assume it only counts as one though as to not accidently Fuk yourself over. And im new here as well and was just in your position, Welcome btw!. I would srsly consider doing the trigger conversion I wasnt going to till i came here and asked questions. You can scroll threw my thread in 7.62 if u want it might convince u.

 

And there is plenty other links here that would help you threw it.

 

and for the parts count thing, there is plenty of usa mages out there that count as 3, gas piston is also an easy one to change for 1count. other than that just got my trigger conversion in today(whooohhoo!!) and will be going that route for 3 more parts.

 

 

[sailor 6]

First: "since this stock won't require me to change the trigger in any way, ..." Unless you are in a non- constitutional state (undo restrictions) I would first concentrate on restoring the Fire Control Group to its' original configuration. Then look for at least one more change to fit your needs. The FCG and pistol grip seem to be the most basic and desirable of restorations - in my opinion. Better handling and balance, and far better trigger. It's worth a bit of effort and expense.

sailor

[chevyman097 2,579]

this video helped convince me... its just ammazing how easy it looks i couldnt wait to try. Needless to say il be having fun this Christmas!!!!

 

http://vimeo.com/2787027

 

oh and here is my thread, you dont have to read it all most of it is just jabber about this and that, but a few of them had very good points for me and why i shouldnt do the conversion. I too was scared to go working on it on my own till i came here and got all this great help!

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48209

Edited December 24, 2009 by chevyman097

[Paulyski 2,227]

I may be wrong, but I doubt the bullet guide counts.

 

922r kicks in when the rifle leaves its "sporting configuration". I think your combo-stock triggers 922r.

Unsure about whether the PG & butstock are considered 1 or 2 parts though, since they're integrated.

Edit: But isn't tapco US made? If the stock IS US made, it could count as 20 parts & since their US made you're cool.

 

How about the gas piston? It counts for 922r. you seem to be missing that option in your post.

 

In all reality though, just be prepared. as soon as you get that setup on the rifle, you're gonna want to convert.

Life is so much better converted, it's very easy & it raises the firearms value exponentially.

 

Your saving grace is that you can become a contributor here for $5.00 & sell the combo stock when you reach this conclusion yourself.

 

Good luck. And Welcome to the forum!

Edited December 24, 2009 by Paulyski

[chevyman097 2,579]

Ya i made the same mistake and got that stock, coulda saved me some money and just did the conversion. If you get it on then decide you want to convert you're stuck with a stock you cant use.

 

oh and dont make the mistake i did! forum members get a discount for all vendors on the site when you go buying parts. I forgot lol when i bought mine boo!

Edited December 24, 2009 by chevyman097

[Digger44 0]

Dinzag has that stock listed as 2 US parts, and he knows his stuff. Yes, you could do the handguard as another one. The bullet guide does not count as 1, but if you put it in you could use the Tapco mags which are 3 and you would be legal. Like others have pointed out, by the time you do all this, you are getting close to paying for the restoration. It's just worth spending the extra $75 and doing it all. That way you can use any mag and have an authentic Russian AK.

[ACE13 0]

First: "since this stock won't require me to change the trigger in any way, ..." Unless you are in a non- constitutional state (undo restrictions) I would first concentrate on restoring the Fire Control Group to its' original configuration. Then look for at least one more change to fit your needs. The FCG and pistol grip seem to be the most basic and desirable of restorations - in my opinion. Better handling and balance, and far better trigger. It's worth a bit of effort and expense.

sailor

 

sorry i really am a noob but whats that?

 

 

I may be wrong, but I doubt the bullet guide counts.

 

922r kicks in when the rifle leaves its "sporting configuration". I think your combo-stock triggers 922r.

Unsure about whether the PG & butstock are considered 1 or 2 parts though, since they're integrated.

Edit: But isn't tapco US made? If the stock IS US made, it could count as 20 parts & since their US made you're cool.

 

How about the gas piston? It counts for 922r. you seem to be missing that option in your post.

 

In all reality though, just be prepared. as soon as you get that setup on the rifle, you're gonna want to convert.

Life is so much better converted, it's very easy & it raises the firearms value exponentially.

 

Your saving grace is that you can become a contributor here for $5.00 & sell the combo stock when you reach this conclusion yourself.

 

Good luck. And Welcome to the forum!

 

 

so when exactly does my rifle leave "sporting configuration? will a new handgaurd make it non sporting? will the Skeleton stock do the same?

 

personally i really want to start off small, this will be my first major rifle(other than deer rifles) and i want to use it to learn the ropes a little. you guys im sure are right and i will want to change the trigger and do the full conversion but i might get another saiga to do that with.

 

and thanks chevyman ill check it out.

[chevyman097 2,579]

As soon as you add the 30 rnd mag and take off the "sporter" stock it is no longer a sporter rifle.

 

I was in the same mindset as you when I started mine. Trust me i know regret not doing the conversion till now. If you watch that video you will see, it is was convinced me. Also there is a 922r counter link sticky at the top of the 7.62 section it helps alot!

 

The fire control group is basically the triger and internals ie: hammer, trigger radda radda...

 

If u want scroll threw my thread i linked, you will see somone posted a pic of their converted saiga...then further down a picture of my saiga(unconverted) you can deff see the diff.

 

Its alot cheaper and easier than you think to do the conversion. I just bought all the parts for mine for under $150 and they arrived in a less than 2 weeks.

 

Oh and a can of black rustoleum to paint the bottom.

Edited December 24, 2009 by chevyman097

[ACE13 0]

o ok yeah i see

 

im in the middle of that vid now but it doesnt look near as difficult as i first thought i just need to find someone with some tools.

[chevyman097 2,579]

Oh i too thought it was very difficult to do. Its more time consuming if u dont have the dremil. I have read some places and watched some videos with people doing it with hand tools, but it took like 15-20 min for each rivet. You can pick up dremels these days for pretty cheap. Really all u need is dremel, screw driver, drill and some needle nose pliers come in handy. Oh and the hammer and somthing to use to tap out the welds, anything small enough to go threw the holes i suppose.

 

Ill be doing my conversion maybe tomarrow ill let u know how it goes and try and post some pics, It will be my first conversion as well.

 

But hey also remember, if the conversion isnt for u its ok! its your gun you paid for it set it up how you want and be proud of it! Im just suggesting because i too delayed the conversion and now regret it.

Edited December 24, 2009 by chevyman097

[ACE13 0]

yeah actually the dremil(sp) i do have. the main reason i was asking about the t6 was that its coming with the gun but i am seriously considering the real deal

[nalioth 405]

As soon as you add the 30 rnd mag and take off the "sporter" stock it is no longer a sporter rifle.

Actually, just installing a "non sporting" magazine does it.

 

Changing the stock (to a regular military butt stock and pistol grip) will not trigger 922r (provided you don't touch the magazine well [so it will accept "non sporting magazines"]).

[thehopping1 105]

o ok yeah i see

 

im in the middle of that vid now but it doesnt look near as difficult as i first thought i just need to find someone with some tools.

Don't underestimate the decency of the people on this forum either. If one lives close, I'm sure they wouldn't mind helping out. It might be too far for you to drive over here to Arizona though.

[ACE13 0]

As soon as you add the 30 rnd mag and take off the "sporter" stock it is no longer a sporter rifle.

Actually, just installing a "non sporting" magazine does it.

 

Changing the stock (to a regular military butt stock and pistol grip) will not trigger 922r (provided you don't touch the magazine well [so it will accept "non sporting magazines"]).

 

ok cool what about the handgaurd? and what parts do i need to accept Non-sporting mags?

 

thanks "thehopping" lol where in AZ? i love the weather there i visit at least once a year

Edited December 25, 2009 by ACE13

[Paulyski 2,227]

As soon as you add the 30 rnd mag and take off the "sporter" stock it is no longer a sporter rifle.

Actually, just installing a "non sporting" magazine does it.

 

Changing the stock (to a regular military butt stock and pistol grip) will not trigger 922r (provided you don't touch the magazine well [so it will accept "non sporting magazines"]).

So if this S-12 has all Russian takeoff stocks, a Polish P.G. & the U.S. FCG are the only U.S. made parts, I could still legally use the original Russian 5 round because technically it is in sporting configuration, even as evil as it looks? If I'm reading your post right, all I couldn't use would be Russian 8 rounders.

 

I thought I still needed to get a U.S. puck & muzzle attachment to use Rusky 5s legally?

 

Then why for the love of God, do they rape them with the sporter stock before shipping them here?

I read & re-read your post, & would say you know more than any member here about compliance, I'm confused.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Paulyski

[nalioth 405]

As soon as you add the 30 rnd mag and take off the "sporter" stock it is no longer a sporter rifle.

Actually, just installing a "non sporting" magazine does it.

 

Changing the stock (to a regular military butt stock and pistol grip) will not trigger 922r (provided you don't touch the magazine well [so it will accept "non sporting magazines"]).

So if this S-12 has all Russian takeoff stocks, a Polish P.G. & the U.S. FCG are the only U.S. made parts, I could still legally use the original Russian 5 round because technically it is in sporting configuration, even as evil as it looks? If I'm reading your post right, all I couldn't use would be Russian 8 rounders.

 

I thought I still needed to get a U.S. puck & muzzle attachment to use Rusky 5s legally?

 

Then why for the love of God, do they rape them with the sporter stock before shipping them here?

I read & re-read your post, & would say you know more than any member here about compliance, I'm confused.

For the same reason they install (imho - useless) BHOs on them - to increase the "points" for importation. The more "sporting" the long gun is, the higher the points it has. Monte Carlo stocks and bolt hold opens are features found on "sporting guns", and therefore provide more "points" for the gun as a "sporting model".

 

I've covered this here before (many times), but here we go again:

 

If a gun has two or more of the following, it's "non sporting" and can't be imported:

pistol grip

bayonet lug

grenade launcher

threaded muzzle

flash hider

folding stock

ability to accept "non sporting magazines" (but not the capability to use detachable magazines)

 

How many of these features are to be found on a Saiga .223 (for instance) in which you just convert the FCG, add a milspec butt stock and pistol grip and DO NOT ADAPT the magazine well for use with milsurp magazines?

you'll have a pistol grip from the list. Ergo, this status won't trigger 922r, and you can use all the factory 10 round mags you like (if you modify the mag well to accept military mags (of any capacity), the rifle must comply with 922r).

 

The pictured shotgun has a threaded muzzle and pistol grip. It would not be importable with these features, so should be made 922r compliant asap (you're a felon until then). You may also spot weld the muzzle cap in place or permanently attach a muzzle brake (but not a flash hider) and bring your "evil features' count back to just the pistol grip, at which point you can use the factory mags to your heart's content.

[ACE13 0]

ok so to answer my own ? lol the t6 stock with PG and stock apparently counts as two parts towards your 922r. soooooooooooooo

 

this seems to me to mean that if i have the gas piston, foregrip, and t6 i would theoretically be good to go. Please correct me if im wrong.

 

keep in mind also the guy im buying this from has the stock already, which means that for now ill be rocking that but the conversion is a soon to come as i get bored with my toys very easily

[Paulyski 2,227]

Thanks for clarafying.

 

 

Ummmm... In that in that picture, lets just say the thread protector was brazed on & there is a U.S. puck installed...

 

The Shark Break has slits in it.

Would it be considered a flash suppressor, and therefore be taboo as a compliance part? The plan is to have one welded & use it as part of the 18.5" of barrel length.

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread ace.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Paulyski

[Digger44 0]

I just wanna say a couple things. ACE, thanks for being a awesome newbie. I am pretty new here as well, but I really respect someone who comes to the forums and educates themselves and asks for clarification instead of just asking every question under the sun without ever looking for an answer. So thanks for being intelligent.

 

I don't know if you saw the thread about the SGL20, but they are decently priced. Piston = 1, handguard = 1, t6= 2. Thats four parts. 10/14 makes you compliant.

[nalioth 405]

Thanks for clarafying.

 

 

Ummmm... In that in that picture, lets just say the thread protector was brazed on & there is a U.S. puck installed...

 

The Shark Break has slits in it.

Would it be considered a flash suppressor, and therefore be taboo as a compliance part? The plan is to have one welded & use it as part of the 18.5" of barrel length.

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread ace.

Vertical slits = muzzle brake

Horizontal slits = flash hider

[ACE13 0]

Cool thanks digger I really can't wait to get more into this more and I appriciate yalls help

[nalioth 405]

Cool thanks digger I really can't wait to get more into this more and I appriciate yalls help

ACE13, if you are near Houston, you might check out my signature. . .

 

If you're not near Houston, you might check out this thread: Willing to help with conversions - Saiga-12.com

[ACE13 0]

I'm actually in fort worth for winter break but I go to Texas tech so it's only 10 hours away lol

[otto76 0]

+1 for doing the conversion. It wasn't as tricky as I thought it might be and was very rewarding. I bought the T6 for my first Saiga and while it was an improvement on the original stock I'm much happier with the conversion I did on the Saiga I just bought. Trigger is crisper, balance is better.

I believe the PG that comes on that stock counts as an actual pistol grip and requires 922r compliance. I used American mags to fix that. Another advantage to the conversion though; new trigger group (3 parts) + American stock and handguard brings me to compliance and I can legally use foreign steel magazines.

[ACE13 0]

yeah im looking to see what all parts i want right now.

 

does the bullet guide count towards 922?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

yeah im looking to see what all parts i want right now.

 

does the bullet guide count towards 922?

Nope.

[ACE13 0]

damn but the us mag that you can use because of the bullet guide counts so it works out i guess

[chevyman097 2,579]

There is NO us mag that cant use without the bullet guide. The foreign mags dont work without the guide, yet the usa mags do work with or without the guide.

[ACE13 0]

so all i have to do to shoot 30 rnd us clips is shave the mag clip ?