Defense Rounds

[raidersfan_5544 57]

I was wondering if anyone has tried THESE. I wanted to know how well the 12ga slug and buck patterned at different distances? Also the 410 bore look to be pretty devastating at close range. Has anyone tried the 410 in a judge or S410?

[IronRonin 19]

I've been on the look out for those and haven't found them at ANY stores!!! They have patterning vids on the winchester site, looks like a great 2-legged snake round! Hopefully my local Cabelas stocks them ASAP, I'll let yall know.

[unusedusername 3]

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Many different loads will all do the job just fine in an HD situation. Either 2 3/4" or 3" 000, 00, #1, or #4 buck are all good stoppers with plenty of power to spare. You also won't hear any complaints about 1oz slugs stopping someone. Me personally, I have a preference for #4 buckshot, specifically the 2 3/4" Fiocchi loads which are unbuffered. They make a nice handspan sized spread at 7-10 yards out of my Mossberg 500 18.5".

 

Just consider where you are and what type of shots you would be making. Me I base my shots off 7-10 yards, as that is across a 21-30 foot room / hallway . If you live in a rural area and are a good shot with slugs go for it, though I'd prefer a shot pattern to a slug anyday. Nothing says you can't have slugs in a side saddle either. If you live in the suburbs shooting slugs in defense is not very responsible IMO. You have to consider where you are, how well you can shoot, how much fast firing practice you have, etc. not just buy some fancy shells. Buy a bunch of stuff, pattern it all, practice, consider how it would be used, and make a nice informed decision.

 

Do yourself two favors though, keep in mind birdshot is only useful if your house is getting robbed by birds and I can't imagine it being very fun having to explain to a prosector why you used a round called "The Terminator"

[teddyraynelson 2]

Those rounds look pretty crazy, if you're having trouble deciding on a good home defense load go to ammunitiontogo.com they have a large amount of different load types with a good explanation for each one. If you're worried about cracking off rounds in the neighborhood or collateral damage, consider non lethal rounds. Before you all laugh, watch the jackass episode where Johnny Knoxville takes the 12 ga. non lethal round, its no joke. Besides, I think it'd be kinda funny to send some burglar to the clink with a few monster bruises. The cops would laugh and you wouldn't have to clean up any blood.

[leadsled 40]

Many different loads will all do the job just fine in an HD situation. Either 2 3/4" or 3" 000, 00, #1, or #4 buck are all good stoppers with plenty of power to spare. You also won't hear any complaints about 1oz slugs stopping someone. Me personally, I have a preference for #4 buckshot, specifically the 2 3/4" Fiocchi loads which are unbuffered. They make a nice handspan sized spread at 7-10 yards out of my Mossberg 500 18.5".

 

Just consider where you are and what type of shots you would be making. Me I base my shots off 7-10 yards, as that is across a 21-30 foot room / hallway . If you live in a rural area and are a good shot with slugs go for it, though I'd prefer a shot pattern to a slug anyday. Nothing says you can't have slugs in a side saddle either. If you live in the suburbs shooting slugs in defense is not very responsible IMO. You have to consider where you are, how well you can shoot, how much fast firing practice you have, etc. not just buy some fancy shells. Buy a bunch of stuff, pattern it all, practice, consider how it would be used, and make a nice informed decision.

 

Do yourself two favors though, keep in mind birdshot is only useful if your house is getting robbed by birds and I can't imagine it being very fun having to explain to a prosector why you used a round called "The Terminator"

Remember, when using a weapon for home defense, you are using LETHAL force to STOP an intruder from doing harm to you or your family. If someone is not comfortable with the thought of potentially taking a human life to save his own then maybe guns are not the answer. I definately would not consider non-lethal ammo. The point is to permanently stop the invasion and remain alive and unharmed.

As long as I'm using legal, off-the-shelf ammo, I personally wouldn't have any concerns with the name of it. Find out what the police in your area use. If it's good enough for them to use on violent offenders, it should be good for us to use on violent criminals, so I've read.

 

As for birdshot, ere's some stuff from Youtube.

[raidersfan_5544 57]

I was just wondering if anyone had tried these rounds. Everyone has their own personal preference on what to use for home defense. Depending on where you live, if you live alone, and many other factors can determine what would best suit you for home defense.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Many different loads will all do the job just fine in an HD situation. Either 2 3/4" or 3" 000, 00, #1, or #4 buck are all good stoppers with plenty of power to spare. You also won't hear any complaints about 1oz slugs stopping someone. Me personally, I have a preference for #4 buckshot, specifically the 2 3/4" Fiocchi loads which are unbuffered. They make a nice handspan sized spread at 7-10 yards out of my Mossberg 500 18.5".

 

Just consider where you are and what type of shots you would be making. Me I base my shots off 7-10 yards, as that is across a 21-30 foot room / hallway . If you live in a rural area and are a good shot with slugs go for it, though I'd prefer a shot pattern to a slug anyday. Nothing says you can't have slugs in a side saddle either. If you live in the suburbs shooting slugs in defense is not very responsible IMO. You have to consider where you are, how well you can shoot, how much fast firing practice you have, etc. not just buy some fancy shells. Buy a bunch of stuff, pattern it all, practice, consider how it would be used, and make a nice informed decision.

 

Do yourself two favors though, keep in mind birdshot is only useful if your house is getting robbed by birds and I can't imagine it being very fun having to explain to a prosector why you used a round called "The Terminator"

Remember, when using a weapon for home defense, you are using LETHAL force to STOP an intruder from doing harm to you or your family. If someone is not comfortable with the thought of potentially taking a human life to save his own then maybe guns are not the answer. I definately would not consider non-lethal ammo. The point is to permanently stop the invasion and remain alive and unharmed.

As long as I'm using legal, off-the-shelf ammo, I personally wouldn't have any concerns with the name of it. Find out what the police in your area use. If it's good enough for them to use on violent offenders, it should be good for us to use on violent criminals, so I've read.

 

As for birdshot, ere's some stuff from Youtube.

 

Redneckted was the guy talking about lethal ammo, not me.

 

I really wouldn't base HD results off something as inconclusive as a guy taking one shot at a paper target out in the desert somewhere. Sure it blows a nice hole in paper. Lots of stuff will. Shit, you could blow a hole in that sheet of paper with an airsoft gun too.

 

You said it yourself - the only reason you fire a weapon, ever, is to stop an intruder from doing harm to you or your family. Severed arteries, damaged vital organs, etc. is what stops someone. Birdshot is the absolute worst of shotgun loads at doing that. The small pellets have very little energy behind them and do not penetrate far - think about it, it's so there's something of the bird left to eat!

 

Sure, it makes a hell of nasty wound up close, but I wouldn't bet on it stopping a drug addict. Certainly not one wearing heavy winter clothing, high as hell with an adrenaline rush. Can it? I'm sure it could. But I'd rather not gamble. Unless someone lives in an apartment, the shooter is terrible with recoil, etc. I wouldn't load birdshot. Just like he said in the video.

 

 

I'll take the buckshot:

 

Edited April 20, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[raidersfan_5544 57]

I would take buck as well but the shot pictured there is only 7 1/2, relativly small. If you were to use larger shot(2,1,B,T) it gets pretty nasty.

[teddyraynelson 2]

My s12 is loaded with 3 inch mag #4 at all times, my s&w 99 is cocked full of hollow points, and just to be safe my thompson is sleeping right next to me. I was just throwing ideas out there, besides, how many people here have actually been in that situation, armed intruder enters your premises and is set on violence. Did you all dirty harry them?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

My s12 is loaded with 3 inch mag #4 at all times, my s&w 99 is cocked full of hollow points, and just to be safe my thompson is sleeping right next to me. I was just throwing ideas out there, besides, how many people here have actually been in that situation, armed intruder enters your premises and is set on violence. Did you all dirty harry them?

 

Not claiming I'm Dirty Harry or anything, or trying to have a pissing contest with you over how many guns we have ready to go, just saying a quick look at cases of use of less-than-lethal ammunition and opinions from various gun lawyers, instructors, etc. show that few authorities view them in home defense very favorably, whether you're in California or Kentucky.

 

Using less than lethal ammo goes directly against the only cause to shoot an assailant - because at that very moment, it was the only way to prevent death or bodily harm - and it's right up there with other bad gun-shop-counter advice like "just shoot em in the leg" and "the sound of the pump will scare them away"

Edited April 21, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[RobRez 1,895]

I rely on the sound of buskshot going through their head to scare them away.

Edited April 21, 2010 by RobRez

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I rely on the sound of buskshot going through their head to scare them away.

 

You're not the only one!

[leadsled 40]

Here's a site to browse. Hope this thread hasn't been hijacked.

 

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2009/04/self-defense-shootings.html

[teddyraynelson 2]

No pissing contest on my end, just stating my preference on home defense ammo.

[mgconnor13 206]

Shoot to kill or don't shoot at all, that simple. Go with what ever is most lethal to your enemy with minimal collateral. Buck shot is a good choice.

[raidersfan_5544 57]

I guess no one has tried the winchester PDX1 shotshells.

[auburn2 1]

Many different loads will all do the job just fine in an HD situation. Either 2 3/4" or 3" 000, 00, #1, or #4 buck are all good stoppers with plenty of power to spare. You also won't hear any complaints about 1oz slugs stopping someone. Me personally, I have a preference for #4 buckshot, specifically the 2 3/4" Fiocchi loads which are unbuffered. They make a nice handspan sized spread at 7-10 yards out of my Mossberg 500 18.5".

 

Just consider where you are and what type of shots you would be making. Me I base my shots off 7-10 yards, as that is across a 21-30 foot room / hallway . If you live in a rural area and are a good shot with slugs go for it, though I'd prefer a shot pattern to a slug anyday. Nothing says you can't have slugs in a side saddle either. If you live in the suburbs shooting slugs in defense is not very responsible IMO. You have to consider where you are, how well you can shoot, how much fast firing practice you have, etc. not just buy some fancy shells. Buy a bunch of stuff, pattern it all, practice, consider how it would be used, and make a nice informed decision.

 

Do yourself two favors though, keep in mind birdshot is only useful if your house is getting robbed by birds and I can't imagine it being very fun having to explain to a prosector why you used a round called "The Terminator"

Remember, when using a weapon for home defense, you are using LETHAL force to STOP an intruder from doing harm to you or your family. If someone is not comfortable with the thought of potentially taking a human life to save his own then maybe guns are not the answer. I definately would not consider non-lethal ammo. The point is to permanently stop the invasion and remain alive and unharmed.

As long as I'm using legal, off-the-shelf ammo, I personally wouldn't have any concerns with the name of it. Find out what the police in your area use. If it's good enough for them to use on violent offenders, it should be good for us to use on violent criminals, so I've read.

 

As for birdshot, ere's some stuff from Youtube.

 

Redneckted was the guy talking about lethal ammo, not me.

 

I really wouldn't base HD results off something as inconclusive as a guy taking one shot at a paper target out in the desert somewhere. Sure it blows a nice hole in paper. Lots of stuff will. Shit, you could blow a hole in that sheet of paper with an airsoft gun too.

 

You said it yourself - the only reason you fire a weapon, ever, is to stop an intruder from doing harm to you or your family. Severed arteries, damaged vital organs, etc. is what stops someone. Birdshot is the absolute worst of shotgun loads at doing that. The small pellets have very little energy behind them and do not penetrate far - think about it, it's so there's something of the bird left to eat!

 

Sure, it makes a hell of nasty wound up close, but I wouldn't bet on it stopping a drug addict. Certainly not one wearing heavy winter clothing, high as hell with an adrenaline rush. Can it? I'm sure it could. But I'd rather not gamble. Unless someone lives in an apartment, the shooter is terrible with recoil, etc. I wouldn't load birdshot. Just like he said in the video.

 

 

I'll take the buckshot:

 

Heavy field/game load birdshot will kill a man at 10 yards every bit as well as comparably loaded buckshotl. The advantage Buckshot has over birdshot are when range is increased when birdshot with less mass and momentum loses its velocity faster (and only then if

 

Now if you compare light target/clay pigeon loads to buckshot then sure, buckshot is a lot better, but that is an apples-to-oranges comparison. 12-gauge heavy birdshot loads are a man-killer at close range for sure.