Why do people ask questions about aesthetics?

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Pauly, your question puzzles me a bit. Your profile pic has your S12 in a velvet lined presentation case, with gorgeous wood furniture and all the various accoutrements custom fitted to the case. A very nice rig and a beautiful weapon.

 

I scan around my quarters and see my S12 standing in a corner of the room, dressed in tactical black poly furniture, two loaded 12 round mags resting on the floor next to it, and at the end of the week usually a very light coating of dust on all the above items. To even have a case to carry it in one of my rifles must vacate THEIR case.

 

Now obviously presentation and appearence DO matter to you, where as fuctionality is my main concern, at least with my S12.

 

Just saying....

Edited November 4, 2010 by Jpanzer

[Casp 119]

Here is my take on the subject of aesthetics:

 

In my own opinion, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, one of the ugliest firearms ever conceived much less shown the light of day is the SIG SG-510, aka the StG.57 or AMT:

 

 

The word "graceful" does not come to mind when describing this weapon, and yet I take a liking to the appearance for one reason: there is not a single feature or component of the entire rifle that does not serve a purpose. In principle I think it is not necessarily appropriate to say "function before form" because that implies that form was given any thought of its own at all. Function dictates form nearly 100% in this case.

 

Conversely, I think this same train of thought is why I hate airsoft guns so much. I would rather have a Drozd; it looks like a BB gun, as it should, because it is.

[6500rpm 670]

Simply because aesthetics sell and in some cases imply quality. Good clean welds are aestheticly pleasing and imply a much higher quality than sloppy welds with splatter. On the transverse side, as an example,two of the best S12 handguards in terms of feel in my mind are the factory and jaymce self named fugly stick. Oddly enough, everyone tends to scrap the factory hg for a inferior aftermarket (self included) and jacmce received a damn good thrashing when he first intoduced his fugly stick to the board until the likes of tony Rumore and Jack Traverse touted them on their personal guns. It's one of those things that doesn't look as good as a quad rail at first, but it's light weight and feels really good (just like a hot chick). Probably one of our most under rated members is Mike at Lone Star Arms, seems to me he's taken a simple approach that combines a lot of form and function without a lot of bling, but enough to get you to stop and take a look (once again, just like a hot chick). It's also the same reason about once a year I clean house on my parts box in the for sale section, sometimes the trade off between looks vs function just don't live up to my expectations for one reason or another but everyone expectations and likes are different. I usually have at least two guns that are terminal projects that no matter what I do will probably never be as good as they were as a basic conversion on the outside with Krebs sights, and well tuned gas, bolt, and fcg on the inside.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

+1. Well said, 6500rpm.

 

Speaking of Mike at Lone Star Arms, here are some photos he sent me of my newly completed S-12 Mk. 3:

 

 

 

 

It's really function over form with this shotgun, like all the ones Mike customizes. She just happens to also look pretty damn good. The one bit of "bling" is the polished and jeweled, (by request), bolt carrier. I really dig it.

 

One part I use that a lot of people don't like the look of is the Ace Ultra Lite stock. It seems to be a "love it or hate it" kind of part. I find it to be an extremely comfortable and solid choice and I don't mind the looks, (function over form).

 

Still, it'd be easy enough to change out for any stock that uses an Ace mounting block should I choose to down the road.

[MT Predator 2,294]

Very nice p-a! Kudos to Mike and LSA. Practical as hell!

[MT Predator 2,294]

I like the KISS style.

Edited November 4, 2010 by MT Predator

[jswledhed 57]

Now obviously presentation and appearence DO matter to you, where as fuctionality is my main concern, at least with my S12.

 

Just saying....

 

If I understood the OP correctly, the question is not "Why have a good looking firearm?", but "Why do people ask others what looks better?"

 

I think his point was to buy/build something that looks good in your eyes and not bother getting caught up in others' opinions.

 

And if this is correct, I agree. How frequently do posts appear where someone has added some new semi-useless farkle and asks how it looks? Not how well it functions, or if anyone else has had experience with the same, or similar, farkle, but whether or not it looks cool.

 

I read all those posts in Eric Cartman's voice.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Tell us about the sweet loking handguard on this S12. Is it a one off custom or something Lone Star has in their inventory?

 

 

 

 

 

+1. Well said, 6500rpm.

 

Speaking of Mike at Lone Star Arms, here are some photos he sent me of my newly completed S-12 Mk. 3:

 

 

 

 

It's really function over form with this shotgun, like all the ones Mike customizes. She just happens to also look pretty damn good. The one bit of "bling" is the polished and jeweled, (by request), bolt carrier. I really dig it.

 

One part I use that a lot of people don't like the look of is the Ace Ultra Lite stock. It seems to be a "love it or hate it" kind of part. I find it to be an extremely comfortable and solid choice and I don't mind the looks, (function over form).

 

Still, it'd be easy enough to change out for any stock that uses an Ace mounting block should I choose to down the road.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Pauly, your question puzzles me a bit. Your profile pic has your S12 in a velvet lined presentation case, with gorgeous wood furniture and all the various accoutrements custom fitted to the case. A very nice rig and a beautiful weapon.

 

I scan around my quarters and see my S12 standing in a corner of the room, dressed in tactical black poly furniture, two loaded 12 round mags resting on the floor next to it, and at the end of the week usually a very light coating of dust on all the above items. To even have a case to carry it in one of my rifles must vacate THEIR case.

 

Now obviously presentation and appearence DO matter to you, where as fuctionality is my main concern, at least with my S12.

 

Just saying....

You are somewhat correct, but miss one vital point.

 

I don't ask anybody if it looks good.

I tell you it's sexy as all hell.

 

 

 

 

However....

 

The laminate wood foregrip will never melt like poly & the laminate wood buttstock will never break, even if it's used to butstroke someone to their judgment day.

 

Purley function. There's steel wool in the hidden hole of the buttstock (the one that's not accessible through the trap door) so I can dull the finish, should it ever need to be less conspicuous.

 

The guitar case it's in is for inconspicuous transport & I plan on getting Fender & other music industry stickers on it to reinforce the deception.

 

I like grab & go, inconspicuous cases, containing all needed accessories for long guns.

Same rationale for clips on handguns, so I don't require a holster than can get lost.

 

The material on the case is imitation sheepskin, for durability & black for further inconspicuousness, also to avoid wearing holes in the material from continued insertion & extraction.

 

I've decided against converting to the AK RSB, as that only adds weight & I can hit targets with slugs using the factory irons that will never lose zero.

The gas tube never heats up enough to cause discomfort, so I see no need to insulate it.

 

The classic AK profile serves as a certain psychological measure, as the AK strikes a certain feeling in those looking at going up against it.

 

Form is a result of function & I ask no approval.

Beauty speaks for it's self.

 

Albeit, the true beauty is on the inside, as it's been tuned to perfection, running everything, with as many factory parts & springs as 922r possible.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Paulyski

[MT Predator 2,294]

LoL, until they invent a rail mount beverage dispenser, the only thing going on my guns is a scope and the occasional pistol grip. Hmm, a butt stock flask might be a good idea...

[MT Predator 2,294]

I go for ergonomics and function before aesthetics in terms of weapons accessories and furniture. When shopping for parts, I do consider how it looks after evaluating the ergonomics. It can have a purpose and still look good right? I believe in doing a job right so the good looks part of it sort of falls into place after ensuring the thing is going to run and function correctly.

I do appreciate when someone does a bang up job refinishing wood stocks though, especially on AKs. My Dad used to do a lot on shotguns for people. He would hand checker "grippy" but good looking patterns in stocks that had no checkering. He's got some cool tools to do it with BTW.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I go for ergonomics and function before aesthetics in terms of weapons accessories and furniture. When shopping for parts, I do consider how it looks after evaluating the ergonomics. It can have a purpose and still look good right? I believe in doing a job right so the good looks part of it sort of falls into place after ensuring the thing is going to run and function correctly.

I do appreciate when someone does a bang up job refinishing wood stocks though, especially on AKs. My Dad used to do a lot on shotguns for people. He would hand checker "grippy" but good looking patterns in stocks that had no checkering. He's got some cool tools to do it with BTW.

The AKM foregrip, with the humps, offers inconsistency of surface conducive to grip without checkering.

The gloss finish feels pleasing to the hand, but also adds grip, like a basketball court to tennis shoes when dry

[swells08 128]

You are somewhat correct, but miss one vital point.

 

I don't ask anybody if it looks good.

I tell you it's sexy as all hell.

 

 

 

 

However....

 

The laminate wood foregrip will never melt like poly & the laminate wood buttstock will never break, even if it's used to butstroke someone to their judgment day.

 

Purley function. There's steel wool in the hidden hole of the buttstock (the one that's not accessible through the trap door) so I can dull the finish, should it ever need to be less conspicuous.

 

The guitar case it's in is for inconspicuous transport & I plan on getting Fender & other music industry stickers on it to reinforce the deception.

 

I like grab & go, inconspicuous cases, containing all needed accessories for long guns.

Same rationale for clips on handguns, so I don't require a holster than can get lost.

 

The material on the case is imitation sheepskin, for durability & black for further inconspicuousness, also to avoid wearing holes in the material from continued insertion & extraction.

 

I've decided against converting to the AK RSB, as that only adds weight & I can hit targets with slugs using the factory irons that will never lose zero.

The gas tube never heats up enough to cause discomfort, so I see no need to insulate it.

 

The classic AK profile serves as a certain psychological measure, as the AK strikes a certain feeling in those looking at going up against it.

 

Form is a result of function & I ask no approval.

Beauty speaks for it's self.

 

Albeit, the true beauty is on the inside, as it's been tuned to perfection, running everything, with as many factory parts & springs as 922r possible.

You definately need a Spnge and Phish sticker on there...lol

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Tell us about the sweet loking handguard on this S12. Is it a one off custom or something Lone Star has in their inventory?

 

*pics of my S-12 Mk. 3*

 

 

Lone Star Arms doesn't keep any seperate custom handguards in its inventory. They only sell complete guns, (or customize a S-12 you send them, this service includes the handguard). I use the factory handguard that came with my shotgun; customized by Mike.

Edited November 7, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[MT Predator 2,294]

Thinking about this thread today and I came to wonder why everyone thinks they need rails all over their weapons, especially the folks who insist on a quad and only utilize the bottom for a VFG? I enjoy the posts of "Look what I did" and "How does this look?" with rails. Some are good for a .

Then I began thinking of the origin of the rails. From my experience in the military, the first exposure to any rail before the SOPMOD began for me with a simple single rail mounted through the factory handguard to the barrel for the infrared aiming lasers we had. We were running GUU-5P carbines at the time which were essentially a fixed carry handle A-2 upper with an M-4 barrel and a full auto lower instead of the three round burst sear. The rail on this weapon had a distinct function and it worked.

Then came along the Special Operations Peculiar Modification (SOPMOD) with the Knights Armament RAS which allowed us to run the IR lasers, weapon lights, and vertical fore grips as well as the option to remove the bottom to mount M-203s and either the standard rail mounted quadrant sights or some really cool quad sights we had that integrated a J-point RDS on them. This rail system had function and purpose. We ran them on our GUUs until we finally go M-4s.

From my perspective,the whole damn rail thing has gone full circle. Now there is so much shit made for them, sometimes you have to have a rail system in order to use some accessories. It seems every damn weapon has a rail system made for it whether the particular weapon really needed one or not. If you are running a quadrail and are utilizing the real estate on it to mount accessories, (not bottle openers and beer holders), fine. If you are mounting one to make your weapon look tacticool, FAIL!

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Well said, MT Predator. I agree with your sentiment about rails, and the overabundance of em on a great many S-12's, (and other weapons of course). Rails should serve a purpose, else they merely add extra weight, bulk, and a chance to "cheese-grate" your skin accidentally.

 

You'll notice in the above pics of my gun, there are only two small rails, with specific purposes. The one at the front of the handguard I use to mount a light, (currently a Streamlight TLR-1), which I find a helluva lot more useful than a FVG or a "laser". The one on the dust cover extending from the HK rear sight is for a reflex RDS, e.g. a Burris FastFire II. That's all the rail I need/desire, so no more are on the weapon.

[psl sniper 963]

+1. Well said, 6500rpm.

 

Speaking of Mike at Lone Star Arms, here are some photos he sent me of my newly completed S-12 Mk. 3:

 

 

 

 

It's really function over form with this shotgun, like all the ones Mike customizes. She just happens to also look pretty damn good. The one bit of "bling" is the polished and jeweled, (by request), bolt carrier. I really dig it.

 

One part I use that a lot of people don't like the look of is the Ace Ultra Lite stock. It seems to be a "love it or hate it" kind of part. I find it to be an extremely comfortable and solid choice and I don't mind the looks, (function over form).

 

Still, it'd be easy enough to change out for any stock that uses an Ace mounting block should I choose to down the road.

but even that serves a purpose. less friction between parts, and that bolt feels like butter when you slide it forward. i really like mikes saigas, i usually try and make up excuses (follow up docter appointments, and such) just to come by and check out what hes working on. some day, im gonna have to jump through the hoops and get me a select fire s12.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

+1. Well said, 6500rpm.

 

Speaking of Mike at Lone Star Arms, here are some photos he sent me of my newly completed S-12 Mk. 3:

 

 

 

 

It's really function over form with this shotgun, like all the ones Mike customizes. She just happens to also look pretty damn good. The one bit of "bling" is the polished and jeweled, (by request), bolt carrier. I really dig it.

 

One part I use that a lot of people don't like the look of is the Ace Ultra Lite stock. It seems to be a "love it or hate it" kind of part. I find it to be an extremely comfortable and solid choice and I don't mind the looks, (function over form).

 

Still, it'd be easy enough to change out for any stock that uses an Ace mounting block should I choose to down the road.

but even that serves a purpose. less friction between parts, and that bolt feels like butter when you slide it forward. i really like mikes saigas, i usually try and make up excuses (follow up docter appointments, and such) just to come by and check out what hes working on. some day, im gonna have to jump through the hoops and get me a select fire s12.

 

I figure I can use it to signal aircraft and blind my enemies as well.

 

Like anyone else on the forum, I drool at the very thought of "owning" a select fire S-12, but those are some mighty big hoops ya gotta jump through to make that legal.

 

I find the paperwork involved with a simple SBS/SBR NFA tax stamp to be enough of a PITA. Gaining the Fed Gubmint's permission to possess a post-1986 FA weapon is a whole other level of bureaucratic bullshit. Good luck with that!

Edited November 7, 2010 by post-apocalyptic