aslyguy 5 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I was wanting to know if anyone has had any issues with the md arms v-plug my stock plug is by far working better than the v plug the only shells i can get to cycle with the v-plug are 3in turkey loads or comparable load and i have to be on setting 3 i cant even get my low recoil buckshot to cycle and with the stock plug i can shoot walmart cheap low brass crap just looking for some input if you have had similar problems Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fumes 84 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 So you have the MD set on (+) or (5) with wallyworld target loads and what happens exactly? FTE? Have you looked at your ports? Checked to see if they are all clear and the right size? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aslyguy 5 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 set on 5 with low recoil buck or average decent ammo or cheap ammo it just doesnt kick back enough to eject round and load next ports seem to be ok i can put stock plug in and get buck to cycle fine walmart ammo has a hiccup every once in awhile but even on setting 2 my 3in winchester supreme turkey loads wont cycle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fumes 84 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Might start reading up on polishing the bolt, it's simple, I did it and did not do any profiling or removing of any material and it improved my cycling about 90 % also are you holding the gun tight to your shoulder? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hmmm, this is odd, I haven't heard of anyone having trouble with a V-plug, maybe it's just a flawed plug. How exactly have you installed it, and are you sure you are staying on the correct adjustment range? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aslyguy 5 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 yep holding it tight its the only way to not have a sore shoulder from shooting all day and as to polishing the bolt i have no objections to that but when the gun works with a stock gas plug and not an aftermarket i wouldn't call that an improvement per say not talking down on the plug yet just saying for what good reviews are out their on it i shouldn't be doing more work to the gun to make it work at least not with a gas plug anyways and its been polished with a jewelers wheel as i do all of my firearms as for installing the plug it threaded right down to the - or 1 spot perfectly it stopped just past it backed it up to the 1 spot started from their as far as settings go i tried 3 or 4 rounds in each setting trying to figure out what was going to work started out with some heavy buck and magnum loads they wouldn't cycle went to 2 some had a couple cycle backed it out to 3 heavy buck cycled good magnum cycled good turkey loads cycled good switched off to low recoil buck and cheaper ammo not all of it wally world special some mid range stuff as well tried them all on setting 5 or + and none will cycle i even tried backing it out to the next - and started over to same effect if i switch back to stock plug its all good low recoil cycles fine thanks for the suggestions and thoughts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fumes 84 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 That is wierd , take out the MD and compare it to this pic. https://www.mdarms.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=16&zenid=n3gst3rs1pjkrpdgojs3svjko2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JROD 0 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have the same issue,I have to set mine to 3 to run remington express buck & remington slugger witch ran fine on 1 with the stock plug. federal #8 runs fine on 5 setting on the md plug. I keep it on 3rd setting as i like the no tool adjustablity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 No plug will 'fix' an undergassed condition. Friction/resistance reduction may compensate for it a little, but porting is really the only true fix for it. Most plugs offer more adjustability than the stock plug. That is their benefit. The stock plug is the only plug that I have seen that offers a semi-wide-ass-open position. You may want to run your MD plug all the way in, turn to setting +, and then go one full turn out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JROD 0 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 No plug will 'fix' an undergassed condition. Friction/resistance reduction may compensate for it a little, but porting is really the only true fix for it. Most plugs offer more adjustability than the stock plug. That is their benefit. The stock plug is the only plug that I have seen that offers a semi-wide-ass-open position. You may want to run your MD plug all the way in, turn to setting +, and then go one full turn out. Didnt think of trying that, installed per md instuction sheet that came with the plug. I will give that a try. Im happy with the plug either way. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dbrunette 22 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hey take off the gas block and screw the md plug in and look and see how the openings look in the gas block. This is one thing I did to mine. with the gas block off and the plug screwed in you can see if you are getting the propper flow through the plug. I noticed on mine that the plug was covering up my ports, even on the 2 setting. so I had to grind the plug alittle bit to unblock it . this is for the factory plug, but with the gas block off you can check it with the md plug as well. Goodluck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have the same issue,I have to set mine to 3 to run remington express buck & remington slugger witch ran fine on 1 with the stock plug. federal #8 runs fine on 5 setting on the md plug. I keep it on 3rd setting as i like the no tool adjustablity. JROD, The "3" setting on the V-Plug is pretty equivelent to the "1" setting on the factory plug. Go to our site and view the comparison pics. You will use the 1 and 2 setting on the V-Plug for more potent ammos such as some bucks, slugs, and 3 inch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 No plug will 'fix' an undergassed condition. Friction/resistance reduction may compensate for it a little, but porting is really the only true fix for it. Most plugs offer more adjustability than the stock plug. That is their benefit. The stock plug is the only plug that I have seen that offers a semi-wide-ass-open position. You may want to run your MD plug all the way in, turn to setting +, and then go one full turn out. You are correct that no plug will fix an under gassed condition. But I have found some guns aren't under gassed and just very rough and the polishing and tweaking will fix that condition. Too many people go straight to the port when that isn't the problem a lot of times. If it isn't the problem and you open your ports up when the real problem is resolved through polishing and break in you now have an over gassed gun... You should ALWAYS polish up before enlaging ports... I do feel that the true benift of the V-Plug and Gunfixer is to decrease gas flow for high power ammos. But both do increase the impulse with low brass. But not enough for me to consider it a fix even if it does appear to resolve an issue. My guess is that even those guns are very boarderline and all that needs to be done to lose reliability again is for the gun to get slightly dirty or firing it loosly like from the hip... As far as the factory plug appearing to be wide open... It appears that way but looks are decieving. It doesn't matter how big the opening is on the plug once you pass the point of more volume than the barrel ports can put out. Just the same with the big port in the gas block itself, the ONLY way you will benifit from opening the gas block port up is if it is covering a barrel port... Even here the gas block port should be opened up from the the underside at a taper to prevent the chamber side of the port from increasing the gas flow with high brass ammo. If the gas block port is opened up towards the farside you will prevent your plug from reaching the opening and block off the gas flow. You can increase the size of the port in the block to as large as you want and you are not going to increase gas flow from the ports in the barrel one bit. Back to the V-Plug... The opening in the V-plug is around 60% more volume than the barrel ports can release. There for if you open up the port in the plug itself either by backing the plug out farther or by actual material removal from the plug you will increase your gas flow a big fat 0%... In fact if you back the plug out farther to try to increase gas flow you are going to have the opposite results. I have heard people suggest this before and have even heard people say it worked but that isn't possible... I have tested and confirmed this many times. If you back your plug out to try and increase gas flow on the low brass setting the ONLY thing you are going to do is increase the size of your gas chamber. This is going to take more gas to fill and take longer doing so... This will take away from your impulse power decreasing cycling power... That is the only result you will achevie. The only thing I can say about those that reported otherwise is maybe they cleaned their gun between their shooting sessions. Or if it was the same session what appeared to be a fix was probably from the gun breaking a cold piston free from the first few shots or from the guns temperature increasing. A hot gun is going to run stronger than a cold gun for a number of reasons. One is thermal expansion. The piston will grow in size and the gas block chamber will close up. Both of these things will better seal off the gas loss around the piston. Next is lubricity. A hot peice of metal is slicker than a cold peice of metal. Another possible thing is a fresh clean gun will have more gas loss around the piston than one that has had a few rounds through it. The fouling will prevent some gas loss after a few rounds... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 No plug will 'fix' an undergassed condition. Friction/resistance reduction may compensate for it a little, but porting is really the only true fix for it. Most plugs offer more adjustability than the stock plug. That is their benefit. The stock plug is the only plug that I have seen that offers a semi-wide-ass-open position. You may want to run your MD plug all the way in, turn to setting +, and then go one full turn out. Didnt think of trying that, installed per md instuction sheet that came with the plug. I will give that a try. Im happy with the plug either way. Thanks If you installed per our instruction you did it the only right way there is. No disrepect is meant by this to anyone but we highly test all our items. This isn't an item that was thrown into production and left for the consumer to figure out the flaws, sadly like many other items released by some. If there was a better way to install our V-Plug we would have known about it prior... Besides it sounds like your plug is already working exactly like it should. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hey take off the gas block and screw the md plug in and look and see how the openings look in the gas block. This is one thing I did to mine. with the gas block off and the plug screwed in you can see if you are getting the propper flow through the plug. I noticed on mine that the plug was covering up my ports, even on the 2 setting. so I had to grind the plug alittle bit to unblock it . this is for the factory plug, but with the gas block off you can check it with the md plug as well. Goodluck. dbrunette, please read above for a better explanation. By grinding your factory plug you didn't increase your gas flow... You only increased the size of your gas chamber. The increase with the factory plug was probably not enough to worry about though because the factroy plug already makes for a large chamber... That is how the V-Plug increases the impulse with low brass, because the V-Plug decreases the chamber size... The port in the gas block is about 4 times the surface area of the combined barrel ports. The only way you could increase flow is if the plug was blocking over 75% of the surface area of the port in the gas block... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 yep holding it tight its the only way to not have a sore shoulder from shooting all day and as to polishing the bolt i have no objections to that but when the gun works with a stock gas plug and not an aftermarket i wouldn't call that an improvement per say not talking down on the plug yet just saying for what good reviews are out their on it i shouldn't be doing more work to the gun to make it work at least not with a gas plug anyways and its been polished with a jewelers wheel as i do all of my firearms as for installing the plug it threaded right down to the - or 1 spot perfectly it stopped just past it backed it up to the 1 spot started from their as far as settings go i tried 3 or 4 rounds in each setting trying to figure out what was going to work started out with some heavy buck and magnum loads they wouldn't cycle went to 2 some had a couple cycle backed it out to 3 heavy buck cycled good magnum cycled good turkey loads cycled good switched off to low recoil buck and cheaper ammo not all of it wally world special some mid range stuff as well tried them all on setting 5 or + and none will cycle i even tried backing it out to the next - and started over to same effect if i switch back to stock plug its all good low recoil cycles fine thanks for the suggestions and thoughts aslyguy, I am not sure what is going on. I have never had a report like this and I can't explain what is causing it. It doesn't make any sence though. The only way I could see this happening is if the port in the plug was undersized which I am willing to bet is not because we visually inspect all the parts as they are produced, again while deburring, and again after finishing when we package them. I just don't see one slipping by. On top of that it wouldn't be just one. If a port was small that would mean it was an issue with the cutting tool and it would not be just one plug. We would have spotted the bad cutter and fixed it. We have not had that issue to even fix so again I just don't think that would be it. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the clock position is off some how, like if the detent pin wasn't letting the ports line up right but even there I just don't see how the detent pin position could even be off enough to cause that problem... Same goes for the large port in the gas block... This one has me pretty stumped. I will say though that if you want to return the plug you can. If you play with it more and the problem is still there you can send your gun in to me and I would love to inspect everything first hand at no charge. If this is what you would like to do please email us at info@mdarms.com to arrange shipment. Make sure to reference this thread. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JROD 0 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have the same issue,I have to set mine to 3 to run remington express buck & remington slugger witch ran fine on 1 with the stock plug. federal #8 runs fine on 5 setting on the md plug. I keep it on 3rd setting as i like the no tool adjustablity. JROD, The "3" setting on the V-Plug is pretty equivelent to the "1" setting on the factory plug. Go to our site and view the comparison pics. You will use the 1 and 2 setting on the V-Plug for more potent ammos such as some bucks, slugs, and 3 inch. Ok so its working pretty much the way its suppose to and the lower settings are for higher power ammo. Good to know, as i said im happy with the plug i like not needing a tool to adjust. thanks for the responce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dbrunette 22 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dont worry MD I didnt grind on your preciouse plug at all i did it on the factory one just where it slants. No more FTE's for me. The plug when screwed all the way in on 2 setting covered the hole in the gas block completely. Now the slant was all i grinded just back towards the threads to uncover the gas block hole. Now I assume it would be the same as almost twisting the plug almost all the way out until the plug will eventually just fall off after my shooting. I mean you gain volume by grinding on the slant on the factory plug the same if not less than backing the plug almost all the way out to unc over the hole. So thats all I did, I didn't touch your preciouse MD plug,(can I get a refund on that) . But while I had the gasplug off I notched out the factory plug in a few more positions as to give me more fine tuneing options, yeah i saw the MD plug, and got that Idea. With the gas block off its so easy to c where alot of problems lie. Oh I love your MD 20 RND Drums I just purchased another one. Hey This is was a problem with my S12 Most S12s are different from one another so this fixed mine. Thanx peeps. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aslyguy 5 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thanks for the responses I am going to re polish everything this weekend and try again I have been comparing pics and it looks fine as i said before it didn't always run perfect with cheap shells before but the low recoil buck usually runs pretty smooth I'm not above admitting my own fault if its something I did but I will see what happens with a fresh polish clean and oil but the reason i posted here is because i havnt heard any bad things about the plug and was looking for other problems to be the cause it is only a 2 port and may be slightly under gassed but the factory plug working better is what confused me either way i will update sometime over weekend Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fumes 84 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just don't oil any of the gas system, or did we already cover that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Dont worry MD I didnt grind on your preciouse plug at all i did it on the factory one just where it slants. No more FTE's for me. The plug when screwed all the way in on 2 setting covered the hole in the gas block completely. Now the slant was all i grinded just back towards the threads to uncover the gas block hole. Now I assume it would be the same as almost twisting the plug almost all the way out until the plug will eventually just fall off after my shooting. I mean you gain volume by grinding on the slant on the factory plug the same if not less than backing the plug almost all the way out to unc over the hole. So thats all I did, I didn't touch your preciouse MD plug,(can I get a refund on that) . But while I had the gasplug off I notched out the factory plug in a few more positions as to give me more fine tuneing options, yeah i saw the MD plug, and got that Idea. With the gas block off its so easy to c where alot of problems lie. Oh I love your MD 20 RND Drums I just purchased another one. Hey This is was a problem with my S12 Most S12s are different from one another so this fixed mine. Thanx peeps. I saw you said the factory plug. Everyone's free to grind on what they choose, I'm just trying to help prevent people from screwing something up especially when it isn't going to help, due to bad information. Care to post a pic of your plug? I just don't see how your factory plug could have been covering up even close to half the opening let alone all of it. The factory plug isn't long enough to cover up all the opening, if it did it would need a smaller slant for the 1 setting... If what your saying is true that would mean there was no slant at all and that it was longer than standard... I did hear of one instance where a factory plug was marked wrong and that the slant side was labeled as the 1 setting but again, even here it wouldn't be covering it up completely. I am sorry but have to call complete BS on this. Also I think you missed what I was saying about increasing the volume of the chamber. It doesn't help, it hurts. Increasing the volume of the chamber and increasing ports or slants on gas plugs doesn't change flow volume from the barrel ports. And yes, feel free to return your V-Plug, if you have one... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thanks for the responses I am going to re polish everything this weekend and try again I have been comparing pics and it looks fine as i said before it didn't always run perfect with cheap shells before but the low recoil buck usually runs pretty smooth I'm not above admitting my own fault if its something I did but I will see what happens with a fresh polish clean and oil but the reason i posted here is because i havnt heard any bad things about the plug and was looking for other problems to be the cause it is only a 2 port and may be slightly under gassed but the factory plug working better is what confused me either way i will update sometime over weekend I'm not blaming you for posting if that's the impression you got. It is an unusal condition indeed and I would like to hear more on it. Not sure what low recoil buck your using but some of it is even weaker than bulk pack birdshot. For example the Winchester Ranger 8 pellet. You said you have a 2 port gun, what is your barrel length? I know the 24inch guns have 2 (larger) ports now but thought they cycled the low brass good due to the extra barrel length. Have a few of the 2 port 24in but haven't tried one yet. I know the old three (smaller) port 24inch never gave me a bit of trouble with low brass. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dbrunette 22 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) i have one ,the MD plug, its kinda a paper weight, i tried it at the range had all my buds there and looked like a dumbass as guess wat happened FTE FTE FTE, call it wat you want my shit runs like a top with out ur plug ill post pics after you insert your foot in you mouth. oh your drums kick ass bud. Edited January 19, 2011 by dbrunette Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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