First match w/ saiga12; mixed results

[stsai465 0]

Some of this of course is lack of experience; this gun is literally only a few days old.

 

Just got back from my first 3-gun using the Saiga (Red Jacket w/ UTG rail). Had some feed issues, even w/ high-brass. The previous night, I thought I found some high-brass birdshot that would cycle (even on 1) but at the match today, I had a few FTFs, even with setting 2. I think it might not be a cycling issue per say; it looks like if the shell has even the slightest dimple or flaw, it is failing to go into battery. Sometimes I can get it in by racking the bolt, sometimes not. Is there such a mod that would put a slight funnel for where the shell slides in? Strictly as a layman, it looks like something like a feed ramp would really help if the dimple is very small.

 

Unrelated issue; I had a very tough time getting the magazine into the gun. I did practice this some and I'm OK doing it with a standard AK (SaigaSGL-21-66), but with the adrenaline of being on the clock I lost out what is arguably the Saiga-12's biggest speed advantage with struggling to get that in; clearly this is something that needs practicing. See below about questions regarding a Mag well.

 

On the good side, when I go get it to cycle, it's much faster than my old pump gun (Mossberg 590), so I'm hoping that I just need to break the gun in (run a few hundred more shells through it to loosen it up). I also got lucky with an inexpensive optic (Ospery) that mounts OK on the gun, was accurate enough (about 20 yards) bright enough even during the daylight, and withstood the shock of multiple 12-g impacts w/o coming loose or losing zero for under $130.

 

At the match, there was 1 other person who had a Saiga, but his was tricked out a lot, including a big mag well (I didn't get a brand name; anyone know a company that makes these that would allow loading the mag quickly), left-side charging handle (I actually would have liked this, but couldn't find a company that would do it), and a triangle muzzle break that looks like it came off a Barrett. His gun was quite a bit older, and he was having much less issues w/ his gun, so again, I'm hoping that it's just a matter of a break-in period for mine.

Edited April 10, 2011 by stsai465

[geepelton 105]

Were did you buy the gun from. Are you using Winchester shells my gun has ftf issues only with winchester, that is why I don't use anything made by them anymore.

[jmzzl 146]

Were did you buy the gun from. Are you using Winchester shells my gun has ftf issues only with winchester, that is why I don't use anything made by them anymore.

 

Winchester makes great products for the most part. Just because their low brass doesn't cycle well in most Saigas, it doesn't mean you shouldn't buy their stuff.

[geepelton 105]

Were did you buy the gun from. Are you using Winchester shells my gun has ftf issues only with winchester, that is why I don't use anything made by them anymore.

 

Winchester makes great products for the most part. Just because their low brass doesn't cycle well in most Saigas, it doesn't mean you shouldn't buy their stuff.

Sorry I meant just the low brass shotgun shells.

[timy 1,185]

My compliments for running a competition with a new unproven gun. I'm thinking a few hundred rounds will loosen it up to where it will cycle more reliably. Go with what works best as far as ammo, and most do have problems with Winchester (I don't).

 

Inserting magazines on the S12 on a closed bolt is different and somewhat more difficult than with the bolt locked back. I've practiced it quite a bit and have far less of a problem because of it. A mag well would simplify matters considerably.

 

I would say run it for fun for a while to loosen things up, then go kick ass in 3-gun.

 

Good luck,

Tim

[lbsrdi 1,078]

There is a mod for the feed ramp and also the extractor slot that worked for me, but should not be attempted haphazardly. Have it done professionally unless you are confident that you will not do damage. This might not be what is wrong with your feeding issues it could be feed angle of your mag. What mags were you using?

[Yoshi 87]

As far as left side charging get a hold of Pauly or Cobra I know they both do excellent jobs.

[stsai465 0]

The gun is a Red Jacket converted gun, purchased from Atlantic Firearms. Shells were Winchester hi-brass bird #7 lead shot. Someone told me that Winchester AA and AA Supersport would cycle (presumably at gas setting#2), but I didn't have a chance to test it (and didn't want to run untested shells at a tournament, to compound running a marginally-tested gun). When I tested the high brass at a range the night before, it was able to cycle the high-brass, even at setting 1. However, I got sporadic failures (actually FTF rather than FTE, now that I think of it).

 

The magazines were Surefire 12-round.

Edited April 11, 2011 by stsai465

[mpdfish 1]

The magwell and brake may be an R&R Racing gun.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

The gun is a Red Jacket converted gun, purchased from Atlantic Firearms. Shells were Winchester hi-brass bird #7 lead shot. Someone told me that Winchester AA and AA Supersport would cycle (presumably at gas setting#2), but I didn't have a chance to test it (and didn't want to run untested shells at a tournament, to compound running a marginally-tested gun). When I tested the high brass at a range the night before, it was able to cycle the high-brass, even at setting 1. However, I got sporadic failures (actually FTF rather than FTE, now that I think of it).

 

The magazines were Surefire 12-round.

 

Someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a Red Jacket S-12 shouldn't have the cycling issues you mention; especially not with high brass.

 

If I were you, I'd contact Red Jacket directly about this, and keep it off the board unless they truly fail in the CS dept and won't fix your gun.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you, but posting this here before talking to RJ makes them look bad. No aftermarket additional "feed ramps" or anything of the sort should be necessary to get your S-12 cycling birdshot reliably on setting 2, and imo you should never have a problem with buck, unless the ammo is itself defective, (not likely).

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

Good point PA and that should take care of the FTF issues so on to the match issues. IMHO and from personal experience you shouldn't need to resort to cheap optics for matches with an S12. First your likely to shake it apart and really your hard sights should be plenty accurate for slugs or shot. I shot a 2 gun yesterday (rilfe/pistol) with only the iron sites on my 7.62x39 and got 23 A's and 1 C on the rifle stage. I'm pretty sure I outshot most of the guys on my squad with their AR's with fancy optics but I may not have beat them on time as I am not as fast as I once was and don't really care that much. Now with my S12 I have a neat Chaos rail with HK sights (that has the cool factor) that I have not wanted to put on because I didn't want to give up my hard sights for competitions because they are so damn accurate. I have now decided that I am going to grind it out on the bottom of the rail so I can have the option which to use in 3 gun...and those HK sights better increase my speed because I don't think they will increase accuracy. As to the magwell; on my S12 I'm doing the LRBHO which I guess would be an option to the magwell. Easier to load on an open bolt and it closes on insertion of a mag.

[stsai465 0]

The gun is a Red Jacket converted gun, purchased from Atlantic Firearms. Shells were Winchester hi-brass bird #7 lead shot. Someone told me that Winchester AA and AA Supersport would cycle (presumably at gas setting#2), but I didn't have a chance to test it (and didn't want to run untested shells at a tournament, to compound running a marginally-tested gun). When I tested the high brass at a range the night before, it was able to cycle the high-brass, even at setting 1. However, I got sporadic failures (actually FTF rather than FTE, now that I think of it).

 

The magazines were Surefire 12-round.

 

Someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a Red Jacket S-12 shouldn't have the cycling issues you mention; especially not with high brass.

 

If I were you, I'd contact Red Jacket directly about this, and keep it off the board unless they truly fail in the CS dept and won't fix your gun.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you, but posting this here before talking to RJ makes them look bad. No aftermarket additional "feed ramps" or anything of the sort should be necessary to get your S-12 cycling birdshot reliably on setting 2, and imo you should never have a problem with buck, unless the ammo is itself defective, (not likely).

Let me clarify then.

 

For the time being, I am assuming this is NOT a Red Jacket issue, but more likely just an issue of a new user w/ a new gun that just needs some breaking in. Buck and Slug cycled just fine when I test-ran it, with the noteable exception of a slug that had a dent/dimple in the front plastic of the shell. High-brass bird cycled fine when I tested it at the range, but was having sporadic issues during the tournament, so I was posting here thinking maybe I was doing something wrong.

 

The optic actually was the least of my concerns; it functioned just fine (better than I expected). This particular S12 doesn't have the HK sites, only the tiny notch site and that's under a UTG front rail, which makes it difficult to pick up quickly, so I went with the Osprey because it seemed decent enough for the range I was firing and didn't cost a lot. I plan on taking this gun back to the practice range and running a few more boxes, so if the optic fails there, then I'll change.