chevyman097 2,579 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm sorry for misinformation, i meant bolt carrier How exactly is the SGL bolt carrier different from the factory Saiga bolt carrier? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baraban7.62 20 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm sorry for misinformation, i meant bolt carrier How exactly is the SGL bolt carrier different from the factory Saiga bolt carrier? if u get ahold of both and compare them, you will see that saigas have an extra lip on the side (full-auto carrier) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Ocelot 3 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 SGLs are Saigas though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry for misinformation, i meant bolt carrier How exactly is the SGL bolt carrier different from the factory Saiga bolt carrier? if u get ahold of both and compare them, you will see that saigas have an extra lip on the side (full-auto carrier) I have both, and I see no difference. You know Arsenal just buys Saiga rifles and does the conversion right? Edited May 17, 2011 by Chevyman097 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nimbus 4 Posted May 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Checked the K-var site...the SGL21-94 is now out of stock. Life happens fast, I'm glad I ordered when I did. My rifle is now on a UPS truck heading cross country.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Checked the K-var site...the SGL21-94 is now out of stock. Life happens fast, I'm glad I ordered when I did. My rifle is now on a UPS truck heading cross country.... Man you should have ordered a dozen factory saigas so you could have the full auto carriers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) if u get ahold of both and compare them, you will see that saigas have an extra lip on the side (full-auto carrier) I noticed this before but it is fairly insignificant. No reliability advantage or otherwise. The SGL lack of a chamber step has a more significant impact if you handload ammo. Edited May 17, 2011 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baraban7.62 20 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thank you for the pictures, just so people dont say that im talking out of my ass and that im full of shit, and by the way SGLs are not regular saigas, arsenal does not buy a regular saiga and convert it, if that was the case it would have the same holes as saigas (BHO) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baraban7.62 20 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I'm sorry for misinformation, i meant bolt carrier How exactly is the SGL bolt carrier different from the factory Saiga bolt carrier? if u get ahold of both and compare them, you will see that saigas have an extra lip on the side (full-auto carrier) I have both, and I see no difference. You know Arsenal just buys Saiga rifles and does the conversion right? With all due respect. You're full of shit, stop ling if you dont know. If you do know then please provide us with the proof, since you are the one that knows. See this is exactly how internet rumors get started then people that dont know, but want to know, spread them. With all due respect do your homework before accusing someone of being full of shit 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry for misinformation, i meant bolt carrier How exactly is the SGL bolt carrier different from the factory Saiga bolt carrier? if u get ahold of both and compare them, you will see that saigas have an extra lip on the side (full-auto carrier) I have both, and I see no difference. You know Arsenal just buys Saiga rifles and does the conversion right? With all due respect. You're full of shit, stop ling if you dont know. If you do know then please provide us with the proof, since you are the one that knows. See this is exactly how internet rumors get started then people that dont know, but want to know, spread them. With all due respect do your homework before accusing someone of being full of shit All i was asking is how they are different and for proof, witch you seemed to not have. And judging by how the story changed twice I think was in full right to be suspicious and think it was hearsay. Now that I see the pictures ill look at mine again. Thanks buzz for the pictures since no one else was willing to provide proof. Regardless, not very hard to swap a bolt carrier. ETA: forgive the misuse of words I should use the words "build" vs conversion I suppose in reference to SGLs. The Saigas and the SGLs are both the "same" as in from the Russian factory. In other words Russian rifles are not being manufactured in America. Edited May 17, 2011 by Chevyman097 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ItsAllCreated 59 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Ive bought 2 Saiga IZ-132s and converted them both myself. Doing the conversion myself brought me alot of...pride or self satisfaction I guess you could say. But the more I look at Saigas, me personally I like the SGL 21-94's authentic AK look: real ak trigger guard, 100 series folding stock(poly or skeleton), lug on the GB and FSB, 1000m rear sight leaf, the finish is nicer, no ugly etching to cover up the former importers stamp and the trigger pull is smoother too. So no matter how fun it was to convert Saigas, If I could go back, Id save alot of $ if I had just bought an SGL. worth the $ imo. Which came out to $1223.30 after shipping and $1258.30 after transfer. Not too bad considering the Stock is $250 and its about $175+/- to have installed depending. To sum up all my rambling, I agree with PA, I'd buy the SGL-21-94 I have one of AZG's converted 132s which shoots awesome. He did all the conversion work (which wasnt cheap) and I took it through about 5 different changes of furniture and ergonomics LOL (which also wasnt cheap!) I love the Rifle, but over the last few months of going through my AKraziness ...I've about decided its best to just go strait for the real deal. I still love the idea of buying a Saiga Sportster & converting it yourself. Its alot of fun & its give you a great sense of pride. But I've decided I like an authentic looking AK, & my tastes direct my conversions back to what Arsenal already has to offer. I always want the best (& if I don't get it or build it, I'm left with the feeling that something is uncomplete). Buying a Saiga Sportster & building it right with top quality parts (piece by piece) can be done to perfection, BUT I don't think it will be much cheaper (if any) than just buying an Arsenal from the start. It can even be MORE expensive if you don't search for bargin when buying your parts. I'd say.............. If you want a top quality AK that is complete, then get an Arsenal (Arsenal is a Bulgarian Company. Many of its smith/workers are the real deal. You're getting a Bulgarian Military Spec AK produced right in the US!) If you want a top quality AK-platform that you can get into for less, and then work your way up... then get the Russian made Saiga Sportster and build it to your liking (its the best base AK platform that you can build upon) Edited May 17, 2011 by ItsAllCreated Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ItsAllCreated 59 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I guess I should have read the whole thread before I posted LOL ...congrats on the new Rifle ...You're gonna love it! p.s. I do hope you realize you're going to be ruined for life ...You'll have a hard time buying any cheaper AK's now Edited May 17, 2011 by ItsAllCreated Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Ive bought 2 Saiga IZ-132s and converted them both myself. Doing the conversion myself brought me alot of...pride or self satisfaction I guess you could say. But the more I look at Saigas, me personally I like the SGL 21-94's authentic AK look: real ak trigger guard, 100 series folding stock(poly or skeleton), lug on the GB and FSB, 1000m rear sight leaf, the finish is nicer, no ugly etching to cover up the former importers stamp and the trigger pull is smoother too. So no matter how fun it was to convert Saigas, If I could go back, Id save alot of $ if I had just bought an SGL. worth the $ imo. Which came out to $1223.30 after shipping and $1258.30 after transfer. Not too bad considering the Stock is $250 and its about $175+/- to have installed depending. To sum up all my rambling, I agree with PA, I'd buy the SGL-21-94 I have one of AZG's converted 132s which shoots awesome. He did all the conversion work (which wasnt cheap) and I took it through about 5 different changes of furniture and ergonomics LOL (which also wasnt cheap!) I love the Rifle, but over the last few months of going through my AKraziness ...I've about decided its best to just go strait for the real deal. I still love the idea of buying a Saiga Sportster & converting it yourself. Its alot of fun & its give you a great sense of pride. But I've decided I like an authentic looking AK, & my tastes direct my conversions back to what Arsenal already has to offer. I always want the best (& if I don't get it or build it, I'm left with the feeling that something is uncomplete). Buying a Saiga Sportster & building it right with top quality parts (piece by piece) can be done to perfection, BUT I don't think it will be much cheaper (if any) than just buying an Arsenal from the start. It can even be MORE expensive if you don't search for bargin when buying your parts. I'd say.............. If you want a top quality AK that is complete, then get an Arsenal (Arsenal is a Bulgarian Company. Many of its smith/workers are the real deal. You're getting a Bulgarian Military Spec AK produced right in the US!) If you want a top quality AK-platform that you can get into for less, and then work your way up... then get the Russian made Saiga Sportster and build it to your liking (its the best base AK platform that you can build upon) Arsenal USA and Arsenal of Bulgaria are two completely different entities. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ItsAllCreated 59 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Arsenal USA and Arsenal of Bulgaria are two completely different entities. Not according to an magazine article found on the Arsenal Inc website. Quote: ""Today the company is known the Arsenal Corporation (Dept. SGN, 58 Simeonovsko Shosse Boulevard, BL-1700, Sofia, Bulgaria). The Bulgarian defense-marketing agency, Kintex (Dept. SGN, 66 James Boucher Street, Sofia 1407, Bulgaria), offers the largest variety of AK47, AKM and AK74 rifles and squad automatics in the world. Available calibers include 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm NATO and .22 LR. The Bulgarian armed forces issue a substantial number of the variants available. In December 1999, Arsenal, Inc. opened a facility in the United States. Many of the personnel at this facility were trained at Tula Arsenal in Russia. The quality of semiautomatic Kalashnikov-type rifles manufactured here duplicates at every level the products produced in Russia and in many instances exceeds them."" Maybe I mistook it the wrong way... but I believe it says that Arsenal Inc out of Las Vegas, is actually part of the Arsenl Inc Corporation out of Bulgarian ...I'm I wrong about that? The Full article can be found here: http://www.arsenalin...les/krinkov.pdf And the part I speak of is on page 6 near the bottom, title "Bulgarian Small Arms" ..giving the history of the company ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EDIT: I found this... Q: Is Arsenal Inc. and Arsenal Co. of Bulgaria the same company? A: Arsenal Inc. of Las Vegas, Nevada is not the same company as Arsenal Co. of Kazanlak, Bulgaria. Arsenal Inc. manufactures their own products and is the exclusive distributor for Arsenal Co. products. I guess that answers it That article is a little misleading to me, but anyways ...thanks for helping to clear that up TwentyNizzo Edited May 17, 2011 by ItsAllCreated Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Thank you for the pictures, just so people dont say that im talking out of my ass and that im full of shit, and by the way SGLs are not regular saigas, arsenal does not buy a regular saiga and convert it, if that was the case it would have the same holes as saigas (BHO) They are imported as custom shop saigas and look nearly identicle to regular Saigas. Even the SGL 10 has the front conversion done only after importation. http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/product.php?productid=43&cat=&page=1 Arsenal custom changes these. They say so in the manual. Arsenal, Inc. remanufactures the SGL21 rifles in the United States with 922r compliant parts and fills them with features not seen on any other factory Saiga rifles. Performing the most difficult modifications to achieve, Arsenal, Inc. has done a substantial work for the customer An SGL 21 can not be legally imported in the condition that it is sold. The 1990 and 1998 import bans prevent that. They have to be remanufactured after import. Same goes with the SLR series that Arsenal produces. As far as the trigger linkage holes that would be present above the pistol grip, those are welded up during the process. Hard to believe but again they can't be imported otherwise. Edited May 17, 2011 by my762buzz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Arsenal USA and Arsenal of Bulgaria are two completely different entities. Not according to an magazine article found on the Arsenal Inc website. Quote: ""Today the company is known the Arsenal Corporation (Dept. SGN, 58 Simeonovsko Shosse Boulevard, BL-1700, Sofia, Bulgaria). The Bulgarian defense-marketing agency, Kintex (Dept. SGN, 66 James Boucher Street, Sofia 1407, Bulgaria), offers the largest variety of AK47, AKM and AK74 rifles and squad automatics in the world. Available calibers include 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm NATO and .22 LR. The Bulgarian armed forces issue a substantial number of the variants available. In December 1999, Arsenal, Inc. opened a facility in the United States. Many of the personnel at this facility were trained at Tula Arsenal in Russia. The quality of semiautomatic Kalashnikov-type rifles manufactured here duplicates at every level the products produced in Russia and in many instances exceeds them."" Maybe I mistook it the wrong way... but I believe it says that Arsenal Inc out of Las Vegas, is actually part of the Arsenl Inc Corporation out of Bulgarian ...I'm I wrong about that? The Full article can be found here: http://www.arsenalin...les/krinkov.pdf And the part I speak of is on page 6 near the bottom, title "Bulgarian Small Arms" ..giving the history of the company ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EDIT: I found this... Q: Is Arsenal Inc. and Arsenal Co. of Bulgaria the same company? A: Arsenal Inc. of Las Vegas, Nevada is not the same company as Arsenal Co. of Kazanlak, Bulgaria. Arsenal Inc. manufactures their own products and is the exclusive distributor for Arsenal Co. products. I guess that answers it That article is a little misleading to me, but anyways ...thanks for helping to clear that up TwentyNizzo This is the Arsenal AKM I own. Here is a review of the gun with some details of manufacture. Yakdung sam7-review.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 CDNN Sports (from TX) just sent me an email special.. Arsenal SGL20 AK-47 Built on a SAIGA Receiver 762x39 Black Synthetic Stock Uses Standard AK Mags 1-30 Mag #ARISGL2041 $699.99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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