jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I bought this folding stock to install on my Saiga 12. I researched this site and others for months gathering info on this install. My friend is an amateur gunsmith and has been a machinist for 30+ years, he is very capable of doing this. So, when all the holes had been cut, drilled and filed, the back of the receiver cut at an angle, etc. for the folding stock trunnion, before pressing the rivets this stock would fold and latch perfectly and lock open perfectly. It all lined up beautifully. But now, after the rivets have been pressed, when I fold the stock the catch no longer lines up with the latch. WTF?? I just don't get it. Am I overlooking something here? I mean, the holes through the receiver and trunnion where the rivets go lined up perfectly. I have a few thoughts but want member input please. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 More pics Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Sorry, I don't know how to put images all in one post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Any theories yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 You must enter a post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 See anything wrong yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Not sure what parts you have, or where you purchased them ...so this may be irrelevant I know that (some or all??) of the newest AK100 poly folding stocks that Kvar has for sale are with the "newer" Russian angle where they attach. Im not sure if thats just the way the stock is made and they are supposed to fit any/all hinges? [of course we are assuming everything is the same diameter hinge/pin/stock pivot hole]. This difference is said to lessen the effects of the recoil. I previously had inquired about the feel & handling of this newer angled stock and I think it was Tx-Zen that posted it really wasn't any different (as I recall the post). Perhaps do a search on this subject and/or PM Tx-Zen, SaigatechUSA, or major builder on this site to ask them specifically about this issue. Also ask Kvar ..if you can get a response. Just to clarify... Is this on an S12, and you used that specific front latch hook (NOT the regular AK hook)? best of luck Harv 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Looks like some material is missing from the latch portion of the stock. That part is plastic?! Edited June 16, 2011 by bigj480 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 The 5.5mm rear block has a different angle and you will need to relieve the stock in order for the latch to engage it. It ois just a fact of life with the 5.5mm polymer folders. This is not an issue with the metal 5.5mm triangle folders. I have installed both. I think that maybe the rear block was loose enough before pressing the rivets that it would line up well. Other than going a little tight around the hinge latch, it looks like your friend did a nice job of it. Relieve the stock and shoot it. Looks nice. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Not trying to hijack your thread or otherwise be a dick, but... Isn't it unlawful to deface an import mark? Not sure if you want that photo out in the wild. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 No, I think it's ok. Just don't go messing with serial numbers. Not trying to hijack your thread or otherwise be a dick, but... Isn't it unlawful to deface an import mark? Not sure if you want that photo out in the wild. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Thank you for your input, Harv. Yes, this is the correct latch hook specifically for the S12. I got it from forum business member Cobra 76 Two. I think I will contact one of those other members about my issue directly. Not sure what parts you have, or where you purchased them ...so this may be irrelevant I know that (some or all??) of the newest AK100 poly folding stocks that Kvar has for sale are with the "newer" Russian angle where they attach. Im not sure if thats just the way the stock is made and they are supposed to fit any/all hinges? [of course we are assuming everything is the same diameter hinge/pin/stock pivot hole]. This difference is said to lessen the effects of the recoil. I previously had inquired about the feel & handling of this newer angled stock and I think it was Tx-Zen that posted it really wasn't any different (as I recall the post). Perhaps do a search on this subject and/or PM Tx-Zen, SaigatechUSA, or major builder on this site to ask them specifically about this issue. Also ask Kvar ..if you can get a response. Just to clarify... Is this on an S12, and you used that specific front latch hook (NOT the regular AK hook)? best of luck Harv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi. No, it is metal. What you are seeing is rubber from the recoil pad. It just needs to be trimmed off. Looks like some material is missing from the latch portion of the stock. That part is plastic?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Thanks for your input, Mr. Evl. Can you please clarify what you mean by "relieve the stock" and "tight around the hinge latch"? The 5.5mm rear block has a different angle and you will need to relieve the stock in order for the latch to engage it. It ois just a fact of life with the 5.5mm polymer folders. This is not an issue with the metal 5.5mm triangle folders. I have installed both. I think that maybe the rear block was loose enough before pressing the rivets that it would line up well. Other than going a little tight around the hinge latch, it looks like your friend did a nice job of it. Relieve the stock and shoot it. Looks nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) When I said "tight around the latch", I was referring to the fitting done there. I like for things to fit nice, but some things work better a little looser. It has nothing to do with your issue. Here is the only good pic that I have of the fitting done on one of mine. When I said "relieve the stock", I mean remove material where the latch is stopped by the polymer portion of the stock under the side of the buttplate. Kind of hard to explain. ETA: Here ya go.... the red area. Looking at your pics again, it looks like the rear angle is slightly off in front of the hinge. It may just be the lighting. Here is a pic of mine. I have a couple of the polymers stocks like yours and they need to be fitted/relieved in order to work with the Saiga 12 front latch. I haven't done any work to either of mine yet. I am using a triangle folder. Edited June 17, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Not trying to hijack your thread or otherwise be a dick, but... Isn't it unlawful to deface an import mark? Not sure if you want that photo out in the wild. Manufaturer name, location, model, and serial number are all that are required, by law. I am unsure if caliber is a must or not. Edited June 17, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guer0 3 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Looking at you pics your butt pad is hitting the hand guard. Remove it and put on the original butt plate and see if you still have an issue. I know mine an original 12C not modified doesn't latch all the way with the AK100 butt pad on it like it did with the factory butt plate. Hope this helps 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bc5000 26 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) sKott said he had to flatten the domed rivets with a file to allow the stock to fold. Just a thought, since it folded and latched fine before the rivets. Edited June 17, 2011 by bc5000 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) See anything wrong yet? Yes, I do see something wrong. Socks with sandals??? Damn dirty hippies and I thought you were one of us. Next you are going to be posting pics of you holding the gun and wearing shorts with a sweatshirt on aren't you? Edited June 18, 2011 by SCHULTZE 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 See anything wrong yet? Yes, I do see something wrong. Socks with sandals??? Damn dirty hippies and I thought you were one of us. Next you are going to be posting pics of you holding the gun and wearing shorts with a sweatshirt on aren't you? Damn, I was going to say that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hey bitch, I live in Seattle. What do you expect? See anything wrong yet? Yes, I do see something wrong. Socks with sandals??? Damn dirty hippies and I thought you were one of us. Next you are going to be posting pics of you holding the gun and wearing shorts with a sweatshirt on aren't you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sgmgsg9 6 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) Edited June 18, 2011 by sgmgsg9 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 OP, Did the guy that installed the rear block countersink/dimple the holes for the lower rivets? The rivet on the left side looks like it is not pressed well or the hole wasn't prepped correctly. It is really hard to tell what is going on with your weapon from just the pics that you have posted. I know a little about these and I find it very frustrating to not be able to help. This is about the best thing that I can offer other than taking a look at it in-person. sKott's AK100 thread Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Hey bitch, I live in Seattle. What do you expect? See anything wrong yet? Yes, I do see something wrong. Socks with sandals??? Damn dirty hippies and I thought you were one of us. Next you are going to be posting pics of you holding the gun and wearing shorts with a sweatshirt on aren't you? I forgot your from seattle. Well that is no excuse you should of left a long time ago, if you don't work for Microsoft, play in a grunge band, or are strung out on herion there is no reason to be there. OK enough fun if you think it may be the buttpad i could send you my other one to try if you think that would help. Also is the stock hitting anywhere like on the magwell rivet. I am getting ready to do the same thing so I am glad you went first. You could solve all your problems for only a mere $3999.00 on GB. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Yes, I already tried that. It was the same with the metal butt plate. Thank you for your input. Looking at you pics your butt pad is hitting the hand guard. Remove it and put on the original butt plate and see if you still have an issue. I know mine an original 12C not modified doesn't latch all the way with the AK100 butt pad on it like it did with the factory butt plate. Hope this helps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Thank you for your thoughts on the issue. I have read of people doing this as well. Mine is a factory fresh, un-modified butt plate recoil pad. My friend has the gun right now or I would take a close up pic of the pad. It would appear from your first photo posted. The photo showing the latch & butt stock latching location; that you or someone has installed a factory recoil pad. I noticed that the lip on the butt stock back plate for which the latch hooks on has been shortened/file or ground down. I know this was a technique for some earlier issues guys where having with latches. I believe from your photo provided you've received an already ground down butt plate that was attached to the recoil pad & is too short to meet the latch properly. Hope this helps SGMGSG9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesmadison 55 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) Hey bitch, I live in Seattle. What do you expect? See anything wrong yet? Yes, I do see something wrong. Socks with sandals??? Damn dirty hippies and I thought you were one of us. Next you are going to be posting pics of you holding the gun and wearing shorts with a sweatshirt on aren't you? I forgot your from seattle. Well that is no excuse you should of left a long time ago, if you don't work for Microsoft, play in a grunge band, or are strung out on herion there is no reason to be there. OK enough fun if you think it may be the buttpad i could send you my other one to try if you think that would help. Also is the stock hitting anywhere like on the magwell rivet. I am getting ready to do the same thing so I am glad you went first. You could solve all your problems for only a mere $3999.00 on GB. Or this on GB right now! Edited June 18, 2011 by StarkIndustries Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guer0 3 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Yes, I already tried that. It was the same with the metal butt plate. Thank you for your input. Looking at you pics your butt pad is hitting the hand guard. Remove it and put on the original butt plate and see if you still have an issue. I know mine an original 12C not modified doesn't latch all the way with the AK100 butt pad on it like it did with the factory butt plate. Hope this helps No other Ideas then since mine is factory and no conversion. Good luck with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Have you figured it out yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Hey bitch, I live in Seattle. What do you expect? See anything wrong yet? Yes, I do see something wrong. Socks with sandals??? Damn dirty hippies and I thought you were one of us. Next you are going to be posting pics of you holding the gun and wearing shorts with a sweatshirt on aren't you? I forgot your from seattle. Well that is no excuse you should of left a long time ago, if you don't work for Microsoft, play in a grunge band, or are strung out on herion there is no reason to be there. OK enough fun if you think it may be the buttpad i could send you my other one to try if you think that would help. Also is the stock hitting anywhere like on the magwell rivet. I am getting ready to do the same thing so I am glad you went first. You could solve all your problems for only a mere $3999.00 on GB. Or this on GB right now! Yep, I know all about that one so far I am the only bidder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.