Factory-setup Pistol Grip vs. Conversion (Saiga 12)

[old hickory 0]

I've finally got enough cash to get a pistol grip type stock for my Saiga 12 and I'm having a hard time deciding what to buy. I have found a great resource at Carolina Shooters Supply....

 

I am not confident enough to jump into converting my saiga. Does anybody out there have PICTURES of the factory setup stocks (with pistol grips) that are sold online? I would like to know how they look vs. a conversion.

 

Second, and I have read a couple other threads about this...

 

What are the advantages/disadvantages between converting, or just buying a bolt-on folding stock.

 

For those of you who already have a skeleton stock, how is the weight vs. the stock that came on the gun?

 

Thanks for your help!

[corbin 621]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Look through the Saiga 12 section in the picture thread to see several different configurations and hear what people say about them. Moving the fire control group forward (ie "converting" it) provides a much better balance and makes for a much smoother trigger pull. I've yet to hear anyone that's done it say they prefer the sporterized setup better.

[KC913 324]

Just browse the forum. This same question about "is it worth it to convert?" comes up very often. You won't find anyone who says the bolt-on pistol grip stock is better than a proper conversion in looks, feel or function.

 

Go to the picture thread to check out proper conversions. Here is the shitty bolt-on pistol grip stock:

 

Edited July 16, 2011 by KC913

[old hickory 0]

KC,

Thanks for the pic. I was debating buying a similar-type stock. It looks too awkward...even though I'm not totally comfortable with doing a conversion myself, I'm going to risk it. I'll just take my time.

Thanks a lot, and I agree. It does look pretty shitty.

 

Just browse the forum. This same question about "is it worth it to convert?" comes up very often. You won't find anyone who says the bolt-on pistol grip stock is better than a proper conversion in looks, feel or function.

 

Go to the picture thread to check out proper conversions. Here is the shitty bolt-on pistol grip stock:

 

[nashuaguns 3]

KC,

Thanks for the pic. I was debating buying a similar-type stock. It looks too awkward...even though I'm not totally comfortable with doing a conversion myself, I'm going to risk it. I'll just take my time.

Thanks a lot, and I agree. It does look pretty shitty.

 

Just browse the forum. This same question about "is it worth it to convert?" comes up very often. You won't find anyone who says the bolt-on pistol grip stock is better than a proper conversion in looks, feel or function.

 

Go to the picture thread to check out proper conversions. Here is the shitty bolt-on pistol grip stock:

 

 

If you watch the the videos posted online you'll be very confident if you have the right tools to do it. CSS sold me everything I need to convert it over right for about 170 shipped and their videos were great.

[sickness 89]

I've finally got enough cash to get a pistol grip type stock for my Saiga 12 and I'm having a hard time deciding what to buy. I have found a great resource at Carolina Shooters Supply....

 

I am not confident enough to jump into converting my saiga. Does anybody out there have PICTURES of the factory setup stocks (with pistol grips) that are sold online? I would like to know how they look vs. a conversion.

 

Second, and I have read a couple other threads about this...

 

What are the advantages/disadvantages between converting, or just buying a bolt-on folding stock.

 

For those of you who already have a skeleton stock, how is the weight vs. the stock that came on the gun?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

The main problem with a bolt-on stock isn't with weight or balance. It is the trigger. The factory trigger's pull angle isn't right for a PG. It is very shallow and feels weird to me. Take a CLOSE look at how the bolt-on PG's are set up on say, the ACE set up and also on the Rhineland Arm's "Saiga Scout" wood stock. Specifically, notice how the Rhineland grip is set back slightly - while the ACE PG is right up against it.

 

This is a common problem for sporter-style stocks that get PG's installed w/o adjusting the trigger. The M1A suffers from this situation too.. They solve it with a special trigger shoe to give more meat in front of the trigger and helps correct the feel.

 

That said, my woman prefers a bolt-on ACE PG. Maybe because she has smaller hands, but she doesn't mind the way the trigger feels. I hate it. She also likes the grip futher back than conversion allows because she likes to grasp the front of the mag as a make-shift VFG, and having the few inches extra space makes that feel nicer.

 

For me, the mag feels too close as a VFG no matter where the PG is, so it doesn't matter.

 

If you're considering a bolt-on folder from ACE I'd say just go for it because you get a PG on it right now with no fuss.. Maybe you'll like it.

If you DON'T like it, it is no big loss: just take the PG off the ACE external block, and move it up after you convert.

 

Now, you're using the external block as just a stock adapter which is good, because you can keep the tang in place and it is cheaper than a Krebs external block designed for that purpose.

 

I just got a 5.45 Saiga and bought the bolt-on ACE set up just to save money over the Kreb's block. But, since my woman likes this gun the way it is, and she likes shooting 5.45 I think I'm going to leave it and just buy myself another 5.45 to convert and set up my way.

Edited July 25, 2011 by sickness

[Raiden 1]

Bolting on a pre-made pistol grip stock to a Saiga-12 is hands down the most bubba' thing you can do to the poor gun.

 

I see a lot of guys at gun shows trying to pawn off their Tapco abortions for the price of a Tromix converted S-12.

 

One of those morons insulted me when he claimed that it was beyond my "skill level" to convert one properly, and that not even he a "Marine Corps armourer" could do it. As if it wasn't insult enough that he was trying to extort 1,200 dollars out of me for a 650 dollar shotgun with some bolt on redneck kit he has to go and call me a ninny to boot. Such a very rude redneck, with a table full of NFA violations that I won't get into.

 

I saw it as a challenge, I've always wanted a Saiga-12 anyway so I went ahead and bought one of the new Legion imports.

 

I did it in my flat with a power drill, some cold weld for the open holes, 550 grit sandpaper, some satin black coloured enamel, and a set of jewler files. The total cost for me was 750 dollars including the gun and conversion parts from CSS.

 

As far as the time taken to actually convert it I'm very picky when it comes to things like that so it took me about 3-4 days to get everything seamless. As in, my bolt on guard doesn't look like a bolt on anymore, you can't find the old FCG holes, I profiled my Tapco hammer to be identical to the Russian, added a detent for the safety to sit in on fire, and I modified my bolt as per the guides to allow me to load on closed.

 

Basic conversion took 15 minutes.

 

As a result I have a very professional looking converted Saiga-12 that will put his buggered up gun to shame come the next gun show. And hopefully make him apologise to me if he has any raising what so ever.

 

Personally, I wouldn't own one with a bolt on PG. I can understand if someone has one for some sort of disability, or as another poster pointed out, feels it's more comfortable. but to pass it off as "converted" when it's not is simply silly.

 

"Do it right, or don't do it at all." comes to mind.

 

Cheers!

[racolqui 19]

KC,

Thanks for the pic. I was debating buying a similar-type stock. It looks too awkward...even though I'm not totally comfortable with doing a conversion myself, I'm going to risk it. I'll just take my time.

Thanks a lot, and I agree. It does look pretty shitty.

 

Just browse the forum. This same question about "is it worth it to convert?" comes up very often. You won't find anyone who says the bolt-on pistol grip stock is better than a proper conversion in looks, feel or function.

 

Go to the picture thread to check out proper conversions. Here is the shitty bolt-on pistol grip stock:

 

 

If you watch the the videos posted online you'll be very confident if you have the right tools to do it. CSS sold me everything I need to convert it over right for about 170 shipped and their videos were great.

 

I have this same stock on mine because I don't want to convert. I stated so in another post today but mistakenly said it would fold, it won't but the length is adjustable. I like mine but your mileage may vary.

[pjj342 632]

Palidin, I had a T6 on my x39 rifle and it was great for a while(Im sceptical about its function on a shotgun though). It never broke and was as good as it could be. Eventually you are going to wonder what its like on the converted side of the fence. When you do, get the fcg and couple other parts youll need, keep your T6 buttstock on(minus the grip on it) and you will be amazed. Then you will see what its all about.

 

If you use the stock, you are only spending 40for FCG, 20 for pistol grip, and maybe 20more for a pistol grip screw and nut and retainer plate. 80bucks bro, at most, to make your gun a hell of alot better , its soooooo worth it.