evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) When I have failures, it is usually the crimp catching on the barrel hood on the way in. I have noticed that the 3" shells are about 1/2" behind the barrel hood when they contact the ejector rail, so the hood could be a little longer without causing problems. I am considering adding about 3/16" of material here and reshaping it to clear the lug on the bolt that contacts the hood. I can always file the extra material down if it is too long. I am not going to change the angle of the hood where the bolt contacts it (oops!). I did my 200 round MD-20 Winchester Universal dump video and the one failure was a round catching on the damn barrel hood. I seek absolute flawlessness.... anyone extended the hood? Tips? ETA: Unless you, or the person doing the welding is a damn good welder.... don't fuck with the barrel hood. I thought that I could add material without disturbing the portion that kicks the top lug down and it just wasn't happening. So, I have spent the whole afternoon reworking the hood so that the timing will be correct. Thank goodness I have another S12 around here to look at because it would have taken even longer. I will have accomplished my mission, but damn.... this sucks. Hats off to all of you guys who are excellent welders However, my question still remains.... Why isn't the barrel hood longer.... FROM THE FACTORY! After material is added, it looks like a soup sandwich, but with enough time, patience, and skill.... you will get it back. I used a Dremel, hobby files, 150 grit sandpaper, 400 grit sandpaper, and a dremel buffing wheel for the underside. I was going to wait until everything was cleaned and painted, but thought back about something Tony Rumore told me.... "Sometimes gunsmithing isn't pretty" (maybe not word for word, but damn close) .... so here are the pics. My welding wasn't pretty by any means, but didn't have any voids in it. By the time I was done with it, I almost had my machine dialed in right for the task.... figures Keep in mind there is still buffing rouge and plenty of general nastiness on most everything. I may post a couple more pics when things have been cleaned and painted. A MD-20 260 round FLAWLESS video may be in order after test firing and final fitting Click on each pic to enlarge and see the text.... Edited July 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I am also interested in learning more about this. Evl, when you do it do you mind taking some pics so some of us DIYrs can understand the process? This mod may be out of my scope of abilities. I would still like to learn more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I am also interested in learning more about this. Evl, when you do it do you mind taking some pics so some of us DIYrs can understand the process? This mod may be out of my scope of abilities. I would still like to learn more. LOL! I'm a DIY too. I found the following threads.... barrel hood mod another barrel hood mod I will post some pics.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm done welding, but looking at what needs to be done to get the extended hood matching the existing hood, I'm not so sure that eliminating 1 FTF per 200 rounds is worth this kind of effort. Maybe I will view it differently after that next trip to the range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
P lang 51 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm done welding, but looking at what needs to be done to get the extended hood matching the existing hood, I'm not so sure that eliminating 1 FTF per 200 rounds is worth this kind of effort. Maybe I will view it differently after that next trip to the range. I used a 90 degree attachment for my dremmel that I purchased for 20 $ at menards Along with a 1/2 inch diameter grinding stone to rough it in ,don't know the dremmel part # but it's the redish / orange stone , and I had one that had already been used significantly , so the diameter was probably smaller . Also used some of the little diamond bits for edges between the hood and the receiver , then polished it up with the the grey and black wheels out of dremmels polishing kit . Hope i could be helpful and it's turns out well for you ! By the way the polishing wheels were also pre used , and when I needed a new one I just trimmed them down to size with some shop shears . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm done welding, but looking at what needs to be done to get the extended hood matching the existing hood, I'm not so sure that eliminating 1 FTF per 200 rounds is worth this kind of effort. Maybe I will view it differently after that next trip to the range. I used a 90 degree attachment for my dremmel that I purchased for 20 $ at menards Along with a 1/2 inch diameter grinding stone to rough it in ,don't know the dremmel part # but it's the redish / orange stone , and I had one that had already been used significantly , so the diameter was probably smaller . Also used some of the little diamond bits for edges between the hood and the receiver , then polished it up with the the grey and black wheels out of dremmels polishing kit . Hope i could be helpful and it's turns out well for you ! By the way the polishing wheels were also pre used , and when I needed a new one I just trimmed them down to size with some shop shears . Well.... I'm done now. Timed and polished. I never knew there was a 90 degree Dremel attachment. I have 3 more S12s that I may do if I can get my hands on one of those untis. Otherwise, this one will be the only one getting this mod. Your help is appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm done welding, but looking at what needs to be done to get the extended hood matching the existing hood, I'm not so sure that eliminating 1 FTF per 200 rounds is worth this kind of effort. Would you do it all for a hundred bucks day in & day out? If not, how much would you charge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks for this, evl. I was actually considering modifying the barrel hood because it's causing the same occasional problems in my S-12. Will filing that part slightly fuck up the timing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I'm done welding, but looking at what needs to be done to get the extended hood matching the existing hood, I'm not so sure that eliminating 1 FTF per 200 rounds is worth this kind of effort. Would you do it all for a hundred bucks day in & day out? If not, how much would you charge? If I didn't have pools to build, sure I would do it for $100 each, day in and day out. I like to stay between $75 and $125 per hour when I am working, but you do what you can, right? Hell, I have worked at the labor pool when business is slow, just to get out of the house during the day and get some exercise. Lately, I just enjoy my time off as best that I can. Yeah, I'd weld on barrel hoods, lol. I'm sure that I could develope a system that would increase efficiency. It sure is a bitch though. Most likely, if I were doing this mod for someone, I would be doing other things to the weapon that would make up for the time lost on the hood. The main issue is that it is very difficult to get the inside of the hood right. The timing issue is very tedious as well. I'm sure someone that is as good a welder as you are could probably do it without disturbing the timed surface. Me.... not so much This gives me a good excuse to do some test firing anyways Edited July 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Thanks for this, evl. I was actually considering modifying the barrel hood because it's causing the same occasional problems in my S-12. Will filing that part slightly fuck up the timing? Filing the angled surface on the barrel hood will alter the timing. It is actually where the initial rotation of the bolt begins. That is why it starts to look mushroomed quicker than other areas. Since I disturbed that area, I left it slightly large and will remove material there on-site while tesing, if need be. Filing the underside of the hood does nothing for the type of failure you are referring to. I have tried it. It doesn't hurt, but doesn't help. Edited July 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 When are you going to post pics? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) When are you going to post pics? done.... Edited July 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Wow that really looks great!! GO to the range so when can know how it functions. Then you can do mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, if you accualy had a issue with this on one out of 200 rounds then more power to you. I don't believe this would be needed on most S-12 shotguns. My 2 19 inch models run flawlessly without. Still good info to have on hand for those that expirience issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Would you do it all for a hundred bucks day in & day out? If I were going to get serious about doing a mod like this in a buisness aspect like your speaking, I would start by having a piece of brass round stock modified to lock into the barrel like the original bolt and would have a machined groove to add the new filler metal to the existing hood. That would be the hard part IMHO, after that yeah I think $100 would be reasonable, and the tool would pay for itself over time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, if you accualy had a issue with this on one out of 200 rounds then more power to you. I don't believe this would be needed on most S-12 shotguns. My 2 19 inch models run flawlessly without. Still good info to have on hand for those that expirience issues. The ammo was Winchester Universal. I have experienced this type of FTF with Federal Multi-purpose, but have seen it much more often with the Universal because of the really soft hulls which deform easily when used in MD-20 drums. It happened during my 200 round dump video and really got to me. That video cost me ~$60 to make.... and one FTF out of 200 rounds of notoriously crappy ammo? This mod is just a small part of my quest for perfection.... or something just shy of it I agree, it isn't needed on most S12s. It is easy enough to pull the carrier back slightly and push the round down with a thumb and carry on about shooting. I like the brass backing insert idea. If I had a lathe and vert mill, I would be making things much easier and quicker for myself, but for now I have to improvise and do it Khyber Pass style Someday.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Oh hell, I just avoid win universal. I'll pay the extra $.01 a round it costs for the federal and call it a day. I didn't know your failures were with that crap ammo. More power to you if it runs on it. I had issues early on and learned never to buy it again. With thousends of rounds through my S-12s now I might not even have that failure anymore, but I don't care to buy any win universal to find out. As far as the lathe and mill... I dream of the same thing. Ever looked at the granite series smithy machines? http://www.smithy.com/index_inside.php?id=108 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, I love a challenge and getting perfection from Winchester Universal certainly delivers that. Federal runs fine, but isnt as fun because it is CGW's baseline testing ammo Now Mike at Lonestar? He has the right idea.... make it run off of anything you can find. That is where I want to take it. When I first came here, I asked what was the worst ammo available and set out to make my weapon run well on it on the wide open setting. It appears that I have video proof of 99.5% reliability, but I want 100% Nail, Why did you have to show me those machines? I could buy one cash right now, but would be broke for 2 more weeks and wouldn't have the money to set it up for another 3 or 4 months. Always my luck. Sweet machines though. That is actually the perfect configuration for my needs. If I had one of those.... it wouldn't be hard to find me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
P lang 51 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 wow , looks very nice , im sure youll be happy with it , i think you can safely say youll never have that ftf again !!! time for another video ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 wow , looks very nice , im sure youll be happy with it , i think you can safely say youll never have that ftf again !!! time for another video ! 2 more drums and I want to do a 300 round Winchester Universal test video. We shall see. If PITA is any indicator of how well it will work.... it will be perfection Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 EXCELLENT JOB! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 EXCELLENT JOB! Thank you. Coming from you it means a great deal to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 When you gonna get a chance to test it out? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 When you gonna get a chance to test it out? I suddenly have a shitload of work for both businesses and no help. I am also looking at three Saiga 12 receivers and barrel hanging on the wall. I have to find time to reprofile and polish 2 hammer, go through a complete action, mod two gas blocks, and mod a few pieces of furiniture. I have to fit a couple of drums to work with AK100 folders as well. Lots to do to these things before I can have any fun. I have to allow these painted receivers to cure anyways. It will probably be at least a week before I can have a session. I am about to leave for an 'extended' day behind a sledge hammer. Keeps the fire lit Anyone need employment in Jax, FL? PM me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 EXCELLENT JOB! Thank you. Coming from you it means a great deal to me. Your welcome, and thank you! Looks like it was done on a milling machine, beautiful/perfect work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 EXCELLENT JOB! Thank you. Coming from you it means a great deal to me. Your welcome, and thank you! Looks like it was done on a milling machine, beautiful/perfect work! LOL! I wish! Having operated lathes, surface grinders, and mills, doing things the way I have to do them drives me crazy. The whole time I am thinking about how much quicker I could be doing whatever it is. I told the wife that after we build a new home, I want a nice shop and some decent equipment My hands won't know what to think Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Looking at yours again makes mine look like crap!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Looking at yours again makes mine look like crap!!! you should have seen it after the first pass when the machine needed adjusting. The only thing going through my mind was "OH SHIT!!!!!' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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