macaholic 5 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) I've been getting heavy fouling in my Saiga-12 K after every 100 to 150 rounds. It appers to be a plastic substance that welds itself between the gas puck and gas regulator. I noticed this condition after I had the barrel shortened to 16" and went from three gas ports to four larger gas ports, The gun runs 2 3/4 bird shot on the #1 setting as well, and I am concerned that this may be an indication of the gun being over gassed. My main concern is the excessive fouling that I'm experiencing in such a low round count. I have another Saiga-12 with three gas ports and 19" barrel that does not do this no matter how many rounds I run through it. Has anyone on this site experienced anything similar to this with their Saiga-12? Edited August 13, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) How many rounds can you put threw it before it stops cycling. Mine does the same thing but I can still shoot around a 1000 rounds before it stop working properly but I usually just unscrew the gas plug and blow it out after shooting it. Yes I believe your gun is a little overgassed, mine is too. I can shoot bulk pack on the lowest setting on the v-plug but that's my fault . I just use a buffer so I don't worry about it anymore. I would not worry about the fouling unless it causes it to stop cycling. Edited August 13, 2011 by Rangerguy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) How many rounds can you put threw it before it stops cycling. Mine does the same thing but I can still shoot around a 1000 rounds before it stop working properly but I usually just unscrew the gas plug and blow it out after shooting it. Yes I believe your gun is a little overgassed, mine is too. I can shoot bulk pack on the lowest setting on the v-plug but that's my fault . I just use a buffer so I don't worry about it anymore. I would not worry about the fouling unless it causes it to stop cycling. I cannot simply blow the gas block out after It cools down, I actualy have to pry this hard plastic substace out with a screw driver. The gun runs fine up to the point that I stop, but after the gun cools down, the gas puck is welded to the gas rugulator with what appears to be the wadding from the ammo. As I said, it is a plastick substance that forms in between the gas puck and the gas regulator and this happens after as little as 100 to150 rounds. This condition is way beyond a little carbon fouling, it actually welds everything together inside the gas block. I seriously doubt this is normal for any properly functioning firearm. Edited August 14, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I doubt it's overgassed. But you went from 3 to 4 ports, you shouldn't be surprised you have more debris in the gas block. I wouldn't be worried at all. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 How many rounds can you put threw it before it stops cycling. Mine does the same thing but I can still shoot around a 1000 rounds before it stop working properly but I usually just unscrew the gas plug and blow it out after shooting it. Yes I believe your gun is a little overgassed, mine is too. I can shoot bulk pack on the lowest setting on the v-plug but that's my fault . I just use a buffer so I don't worry about it anymore. I would not worry about the fouling unless it causes it to stop cycling. I cannot simply blow the gas block out after It cools down, I actualy have to pry this hard plastic substace out with a screw driver. The gun runs fine up to the point that I stop, but after the gun cools down, the gas puck is welded to the gas rugulator with what appears to be the wadding from the ammo. As I said, it is a plastick substance that forms in between the gas puck and the gas regulator and this happens after as little as 100 to150 rounds. This condition is way beyond a little carbon fouling, it actually welds everything together inside the gas block. I seriously doubt this is normal for any properly functioning firearm. Well that's not good. Have you tried changing the ammo? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I've been getting heavy fouling in my Saiga-12 K after every 100 to 150 rounds. It appers to be a plastic substance that welds itself between the gas puck and gas regulator. I noticed this condition after I had the barrel shortened to 16" and went from three gas ports to four larger gas ports, The gun runs 2 3/4 bird shot on the #1 setting as well, and I am concerned that this may be an indication of the gun being over gassed. My main concern is the excessive fouling that I'm experiencing in such a low round count. I have another Saiga-12 with three gas ports and 19" barrel that does not do this no matter how many rounds I run through it. Has anyone on this site experienced anything similar to this with their Saiga-12? I have a 19inch with factory 4 ports and I get the same around 100-150 rounds Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Ummm hello... Reality check..... All that crap you keep reading about how 4 port Saigas are "over gassed", or at least most of it.... is put up by people who happen to be "over gassed". Back in the day.... when we all had Saigas with enough gas flow to properly cycle the weapon with almost any damned thing we wanted to put through them, we pried and drove those fuggin carbon / plastic biscuits right the fuck out the front when after a thousand rounds or so it started choking on some ammo. Then we screwed the factory gas regulator back on there with the factory puck inside, and went right back to blowing shit up...... just sayin.... Ya know I have been holding this back because I still haven't had the need to check it out for myself (I use recoil buffers), but has anyone who is so damned worried about "over" gassing their S-12 ever tried unscrewing the factory gas plug (regulator) out past the first setting they recommend in the owner's manual? You do know, right?, that the more total volume you add to the manifold, or gas chamber.... whatever... the less 'push' you are applying to the bolt carrier, which is responsible for cycling the action? OK so some folks have it in their thick heads that those of us who were lucky enough to score S-12s that were built like they should be.... and never ever had the problems that plague owners of S-12s made later on, have these factory mistakes.... , that they eventually corrected by dropping the number of gas ports down to 3, and in the process, started doing stupid shit like using worn out bits to drill the ports, putting gas regulators in them with sometimes two or no bevels (for the #2 setting..), and ended up with all these UNDER gassed guns that are currently on the market, and require so much extra work to make them function like all the 4 port EAA guns I have right out of the box. To the OP... don't believe everything you read on the forum. Your gun may require a little more cleaning once in awhile than some, but you can damn well depend on that one to work when it needs to. rant off... 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smartbomb 133 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 ever tried unscrewing the factory gas plug (regulator) out past the first setting they recommend in the owner's manual? cobra, my 20 is like this due to previous owner. i cant screw the gas reg more than half way. it runs very well. havent tested with super crap or super hot yet but ran 3" hi velocity target shot like a beast. didnt see any damage to carrier or rear trunnion. i also noticed on the russ mil site, the 12 they post doesnt have a reg. i am beginning to wonder if its really necessary at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Shannon Not sure what you meant by the regulator setting. I dont feel like it it overgassed on mine. Kills every light load on setting 2 Havent shot over 150-200 rounds in a single setting. I did notice that I have to force the gas puck out to do the cleaning and that there is a "ring" of lead\plastic? gunk in the gas chamber that requires a little work to get out, but the gun works great The wife even shot it:) Was a barrel full of monkeys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) Ummm hello... Reality check..... All that crap you keep reading about how 4 port Saigas are "over gassed", or at least most of it.... is put up by people who happen to be "over gassed". Back in the day.... when we all had Saigas with enough gas flow to properly cycle the weapon with almost any damned thing we wanted to put through them, we pried and drove those fuggin carbon / plastic biscuits right the fuck out the front when after a thousand rounds or so it started choking on some ammo. Then we screwed the factory gas regulator back on there with the factory puck inside, and went right back to blowing shit up...... just sayin.... Ya know I have been holding this back because I still haven't had the need to check it out for myself (I use recoil buffers), but has anyone who is so damned worried about "over" gassing their S-12 ever tried unscrewing the factory gas plug (regulator) out past the first setting they recommend in the owner's manual? You do know, right?, that the more total volume you add to the manifold, or gas chamber.... whatever... the less 'push' you are applying to the bolt carrier, which is responsible for cycling the action? OK so some folks have it in their thick heads that those of us who were lucky enough to score S-12s that were built like they should be.... and never ever had the problems that plague owners of S-12s made later on, have these factory mistakes.... , that they eventually corrected by dropping the number of gas ports down to 3, and in the process, started doing stupid shit like using worn out bits to drill the ports, putting gas regulators in them with sometimes two or no bevels (for the #2 setting..), and ended up with all these UNDER gassed guns that are currently on the market, and require so much extra work to make them function like all the 4 port EAA guns I have right out of the box. To the OP... don't believe everything you read on the forum. Your gun may require a little more cleaning once in awhile than some, but you can damn well depend on that one to work when it needs to. rant off... I'm not sure you thoroughly read my post. I stated that my main concern is the plastic biscuit that forms in between the gas puck and gas regulator after firing 100 to 150 rounds. This only happens on my Saiga-12 with the 16" barrel which now has four 5/64 gas ports. It did not do this before I sent the gun out on a form 1 to be SBSed. I have another Saiga-12 with Three .63 gas ports and a 19' barrel that does not do this no matter how many rounds I fire through it. What I'm trying to find out is; Has anyone else had a similar or the same thing happen to there Saiga-12 with shortened barrel or same gas ports or longer barrel or whatever? So far no one seems to have experienced the plastic disck that Im getting in between my gas puck and gas regulator after firing 100 to 150 rounds. Someone else mentioned 1000 in their Saiga-12 but it only takes 100 rounds or so untill the gas block and everything inside is welded together with this plastick stuff. Believe me, if this happened after 1000 rounds I would nor worry, but it only takes 100 to 150 rounds for this to happen and I don't believe this should be happening if the gun was functioning properly. If I may, let me ask you directly, Have you evrer seen this condition that I've described happen in any other Saiga-12 after fireing this low of a round count? If so, what was the problem and how did you solve it? Edited August 14, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) I've been getting heavy fouling in my Saiga-12 K after every 100 to 150 rounds. It appers to be a plastic substance that welds itself between the gas puck and gas regulator. I noticed this condition after I had the barrel shortened to 16" and went from three gas ports to four larger gas ports, The gun runs 2 3/4 bird shot on the #1 setting as well, and I am concerned that this may be an indication of the gun being over gassed. My main concern is the excessive fouling that I'm experiencing in such a low round count. I have another Saiga-12 with three gas ports and 19" barrel that does not do this no matter how many rounds I run through it. Has anyone on this site experienced anything similar to this with their Saiga-12? I have a 19inch with factory 4 ports and I get the same around 100-150 rounds Do you get a plastick disk form between your gas puck and gas plug like I descibed with my Saiga-12? I'm not talking about some carbon or simple fouling that I can just shake or blow out. I'm talking about a plastick layer that welds itsef to the front of the gas puck that I have to pry out with a small screw driver. Or let me explain it like this. It's like a plastick biscuit glued to the front of the gas puck that I have to pry out with a small skrew driver. Is this what happens inside your gas block after 100 to 150 rounds? Edited August 14, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Sure man no problem. Sorry I just get tired of seeing all the threads about "over gassing" that come up, and lead people to think there's something wrong with having 4 ports of normal size, in an S-12. It's how they all used to be, and all of them worked with just a little "breaking in"...ugh...I said it....lol. Yes I have seen lots of those biscuits, carbon / plastic wafers, etc come out of gas blocks. I know some that have gone a couple thousand rds without ever cleaning, and have had to take a hammer and a cleaning rod and drive the puck and plastic biscuit out of there. Like you said though, this wasn't after merely 1 - 200 rds. I think what it sounds like is whoever worked on your ports goofed, and drilled them straight down, or even at a reverse angle? They're supposed to be angled back toward the puck. They should not be scooping up that much poop.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) Sure man no problem. Sorry I just get tired of seeing all the threads about "over gassing" that come up, and lead people to think there's something wrong with having 4 ports of normal size, in an S-12. It's how they all used to be, and all of them worked with just a little "breaking in"...ugh...I said it....lol. Yes I have seen lots of those biscuits, carbon / plastic wafers, etc come out of gas blocks. I know some that have gone a couple thousand rds without ever cleaning, and have had to take a hammer and a cleaning rod and drive the puck and plastic biscuit out of there. Like you said though, this wasn't after merely 1 - 200 rds. I think what it sounds like is whoever worked on your ports goofed, and drilled them straight down, or even at a reverse angle? They're supposed to be angled back toward the puck. They should not be scooping up that much poop.... The gas ports are angled toward the face of the gas puck and this was my first question. However, they are not in the form of a diamond like the factory, they are in the form of a square. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the gun was originally a three port gun. I measured the new port holes at 5/64 and although that does not seem unusually large, I don't know why the holes needed to be modified in the first place. I was originaly going to cut the barrel myself and see if it would run with the factory three gas ports, but I was new to the Saiga -12, and wanted to send it to someone with previous experience. At this point, I wish I would have cut and faced the barrel myself. Somehow I believe the gun would have run with the original three gas ports because it's only three inches difference. Anyway, I'm sure learning the hard way on this one. Edited August 14, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 the ports should be angled to towards the muzzle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. The OP had a Form 1, so he is allowed to "manufacture" that individual SBS. +1 on it needing 4 ports It sounds like there may be some burrs in the barrel or a sharp edge on the inside of the barrel at the ports that is "shaving" material off of the shot cup in the ammo as it travels past, causing the premature "shitloading" of the gas block. I have experienced the "shit biscuit", but usually after about 400-500 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose. The weapon still runs great with the shit biscuit in it and I usually have no indication of its existence until I go home and clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to be as bad with Winchester Universal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. The OP had a Form 1, so he is allowed to "manufacture" that individual SBS. +1 on it needing 4 ports It sounds like there may be some burrs in the barrel or a sharp edge on the inside of the barrel at the ports that is "shaving" material off of the shot cup in the ammo as it travels past, causing the premature "shitloading" of the gas block. I have experienced the "shit biscuit", but usually after about 400-500 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose. The weapon still runs great with the shit biscuit in it and I usually have no indication of its existence until I go home and clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to be as bad with Winchester Universal. Your right on about the gun running alright. It runs like a scolded pup. I just wonder if it would run after it cooled down and that plastick shit biscuit got hard? Anyway, I think I made the wrong decission by letting someone else work on one of my firearms. I do hope that I'm wrong, but I think the problem lles in the way the gas ports were done and I do believe they were drilled a little too large, because the gun runs low brass on the #1 setting. I plan to SBS my other Saiga-12 to 16" but I'll do that one myself. Edited August 15, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. The OP had a Form 1, so he is allowed to "manufacture" that individual SBS. +1 on it needing 4 ports It sounds like there may be some burrs in the barrel or a sharp edge on the inside of the barrel at the ports that is "shaving" material off of the shot cup in the ammo as it travels past, causing the premature "shitloading" of the gas block. I have experienced the "shit biscuit", but usually after about 400-500 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose. The weapon still runs great with the shit biscuit in it and I usually have no indication of its existence until I go home and clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to be as bad with Winchester Universal. Just out of curiousity, how long is your barrell, how many port holes do you have and what size are the port holes? Edited August 15, 2011 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. My ports are angled toward the end of the barrel (away from the Puck) Edited August 15, 2011 by Saiga Power Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. The OP had a Form 1, so he is allowed to "manufacture" that individual SBS. +1 on it needing 4 ports It sounds like there may be some burrs in the barrel or a sharp edge on the inside of the barrel at the ports that is "shaving" material off of the shot cup in the ammo as it travels past, causing the premature "shitloading" of the gas block. I have experienced the "shit biscuit", but usually after about 400-500 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose. The weapon still runs great with the shit biscuit in it and I usually have no indication of its existence until I go home and clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to be as bad with Winchester Universal. I think I recall Tony Rumore commenting on the plastic that Federal leaves behind Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. My ports are angled toward the end of the barrel (away from the Puck) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. My ports are angled toward the end of the barrel (away from the Puck) Yes, they are angled in the opposite direction. I used a dental pick and they are angled toward the end of the barrel (all four of them) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 That doesn't make sense. 3 of those ports are from the factory and they will be angled so that the penetrating pick is angled towards the receiver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) That doesn't make sense. 3 of those ports are from the factory and they will be angled so that the penetrating pick is angled towards the receiver. All four of my ports are "factory" EDIT: Info from Tony Rumore when he worked my S12 From: Rumore@Tromix.com To: kenneth_conaway15@msn.com Subject: RE: Saiga 12 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:43:44 -0500 It’s a 19” barrel with the correct 4 gas ports. I will have Melissa send you the tracking number. Tony Edited August 15, 2011 by Saiga Power Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. The OP had a Form 1, so he is allowed to "manufacture" that individual SBS. +1 on it needing 4 ports It sounds like there may be some burrs in the barrel or a sharp edge on the inside of the barrel at the ports that is "shaving" material off of the shot cup in the ammo as it travels past, causing the premature "shitloading" of the gas block. I have experienced the "shit biscuit", but usually after about 400-500 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose. The weapon still runs great with the shit biscuit in it and I usually have no indication of its existence until I go home and clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to be as bad with Winchester Universal. Just out of curiousity, how long is your barrell, how many port holes do you have and what size are the port holes? 18 1/16" barrel with 4 ports @ .093" I may do a series of torture videos. Maybe something like firing 100 rounds, allowing the weapon to cool, and repeat until the weapon will not cycle due to blockage or debris in the gas block. I may even do it with the Autoplug installed. I would like to make it to at least 600 rounds or so with no failures. Edited August 15, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 The ports are supposed to be angled back toward the puck, as in... if you stuck a tooth pick down the hole the top part sticking out would be slanting toward the rear of the gun. No it would not have run with the three original ports if you chopped the barrel to 16", it would definitely need more gas than that with a short barrel. Also, you have to have a license to cut a shotgun barrel to any less than 18" unless the barrel is removed from the receiver first. The OP had a Form 1, so he is allowed to "manufacture" that individual SBS. +1 on it needing 4 ports It sounds like there may be some burrs in the barrel or a sharp edge on the inside of the barrel at the ports that is "shaving" material off of the shot cup in the ammo as it travels past, causing the premature "shitloading" of the gas block. I have experienced the "shit biscuit", but usually after about 400-500 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose. The weapon still runs great with the shit biscuit in it and I usually have no indication of its existence until I go home and clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to be as bad with Winchester Universal. Just out of curiousity, how long is your barrell, how many port holes do you have and what size are the port holes? 18 1/16" barrel with 4 ports @ .093" I may doa series of torture videos. Maybe something like firing 100 rounds, allowing the weapon to cool, and repeat until the weapon will not cycle due to blockage or debris in the gas block. I may even do it with the Autoplug installed. I would like to make it to at least 600 rounds or so with no failures. Sweet....blow up some cool shit in those vids Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Sweet....blow up some cool shit in those vids I may try to do a 'speed round' of clays per video. It should be pretty funny with MD-20s. The weapon is very slow handling with MD-20s vs a factory 5 round mag. Not to mention having to hold it at the ready while waiting for the next clay. Of course, I will be using the notorious Winchester Universal. The range I go to probably won't allow me to use anything like tannerite, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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