Z1500 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 (edited) Hey! Noobe here, long time on other forums just found this place. So I was talking to my injection molding buddy about doing mags for the Saiga-12. I figured if you're building your own you may as well have them hold a couple extra rounds. Long story short it would cost about $40k for the solid modeling and molds including reworks to fine tune them. After that the bodies would be about $1 ea. I was trying to get him to go in halfs with me but he didn't think he'd ever get his investment back. Anybody got $20k laying around for a fun investment? I figure you'd have to sell about 1500 complete mags at $40ea. just to brake even. Anyone want to pre-order:) I was wodering if anybody knows about how many Saiga-12's were imported? Kevin I also emailed IZHMASH and asked for a quote on 1000 8rnd mags. They didn't have much to say back:) I don't think they could build 1000 mags even if they wanted to. Edited August 6, 2005 by Z1500 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaGroaner 2 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Hey! Noobe here, long time on other forums just found this place. So I was talking to my injection molding buddy about doing mags for the Saiga-12. I figured if you're building your own you may as well have them hold a couple extra rounds. Long story short it would cost about $40k for the solid modeling and molds including reworks to fine tune them. After that the bodies would be about $1 ea. I was trying to get him to go in halfs with me but he didn't think he'd ever get his investment back. Anybody got $20k laying around for a fun investment? I figure you'd have to sell about 1500 complete mags at $40ea. just to brake even. Anyone want to pre-order:) I was wodering if anybody knows about how many Saiga-12's were imported? Kevin I also emailed IZHMASH and asked for a quote on 1000 8rnd mags. They didn't have much to say back:) I don't think they could build 1000 mags even if they wanted to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Add close to $20,000 more to stamp out the feed lips and you still don't have a follower, floor-plate or spring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvasqu03 21 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Ah yes, this again. This has been discussed at length in the past, and someone who owns a prototyping company even undertook the project himself before being dissuaded by the negative feedback on a product that didn't even yet exist. Prepare to be inundated with complaints that such a project would cause the Saiga to be classified as a Destructive Device, thereby destroying the Ozone layer, rendering all exsiting ammunition inert, increasing unemployment to levels not seen since the great depression and generally bringing about the fall of western civillization. Aside from that, most of us that have looked into getting these produced have generally concluded the project is financially unfeasable. There seems to be a lot of support for these ideas in the Saiga community, but very little follow through when it comes to actually committing money down. What can I say, we're all a bunch of cheap bastards at heart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 (edited) Edited August 6, 2005 by acetomatoco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivrfrkbrd 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Excuse my ignorance but could the 'lost wax' method of casting be utillized as opposed to injection molding? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvasqu03 21 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Excuse my ignorance but could the 'lost wax' method of casting be utillized as opposed to injection molding? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From my understanding, you couldn't cast modern polymers that are strong enough for something like this using anything but injection molding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 What about doing a metal magazine? Two stamped halfs spot welded together like AR mags? Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvasqu03 21 Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 What about doing a metal magazine? Two stamped halfs spot welded together like AR mags? Kevin <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The welding might be cheap, but metal stamping molds cost even more than injection molds do, and they're probably even harder to modify if you didn't get them right the first time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 What about using some kind of jig to bend up the mag bodies, kind of like how AK receivers are made? The other alternative is to cast the mags out of metal. Don't know if that would be much cheaper though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 Cheap, but labor intensive would be to make hammer bucks for both halves of a mag and pound them out yourself. It will work, but as I say it is labor intenseive. Not a vieable commercial method, unless you have friends in a third world sweatshop! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvasqu03 21 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 guys, guys, guys........ All these things have been discussed before. Until someone comes up with a new cheaper way to make injecton molding dies, or comes up with a revolutionary new way to mold polymers, I doubt there'll be any movement on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 I can see it now,MADE IN CHINA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 I can see it now,MADE IN CHINA <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep! Them Chinese know AK's. The good thing about production in China is they will eat all the upfront fees. You just have to buy a bunch. But if they'll build 1000 for $20ea I think that's pretty fair. I'll send one over with my guy and see what he can do. I'm going to look a little more into the metal mags. I know it's not that expensive in upfront cost, it's just more expensive per unit cost. It doesn't have to be a super high production single strike die, it could be a little more labor intensive. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acetomatoco 0 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 I can see it now,MADE IN CHINA <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep! Them Chinese know AK's. The good thing about production in China is they will eat all the upfront fees. You just have to buy a bunch. But if they'll build 1000 for $20ea I think that's pretty fair. I'll send one over with my guy and see what he can do. I'm going to look a little more into the metal mags. I know it's not that expensive in upfront cost, it's just more expensive per unit cost. It doesn't have to be a super high production single strike die, it could be a little more labor intensive. Kevin <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was being real SARCASTIC and hoping that I would never see this on anything that I buy ever again. In fact if they made the mag I would have a hard time buying it from them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 What about using some kind of jig to bend up the mag bodies, kind of like how AK receivers are made? The other alternative is to cast the mags out of metal. Don't know if that would be much cheaper though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> this is the only way it can be done by a DIYer. With a consumer grade milling machine (Grizzly) and a harbor frieght 20 ton press it can be done. you can make the jigs and bend your own sheet metal mags. however, the trial and error and tweeking of the feed lips would be a labor of love rather than a commercial venture. the upside to this is that it is fairly cheap to have thin sheet metal laser cut in quantity. that means, once you have a successful magazine, you have 1K bodies laser cut for a few bucks, bend it on your jig, add the laser cut floor plates, springs (made at your local srping shop for $2-$3 when bought in high quantity), and a follower bent on another jig and laser cut. realistically, you could crank out mags at a cost of $10 each and easily sell them for $50 each (you have to remember that a selling point is the 3 US parts count). However, you would have about $5000 of upfront $$ needed and countless hours of tweeking the dies for the press. those are the obsticles holding folks back. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted August 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Problem solved today. They will be injection molded just like stock here in the US. Realistic guess is 12weeks. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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