Saiga 12.......Is it worth it ??

[EEEKROAR 7]

Blasphemy gsxr????? Blasphemy.

 

hahaha

I knew that would get a response.

[CronoTrigger 4]

The best answer to your question would be; What value do you place on having a mag fed 12ga that accepts 20rd drums, which happens to be built on the legendary AK platform? Take this number subtract the price of the gun and if there is money left over, buy it.

 

This calculation has already been done by many thousands of times by many different people, and the result is the same everytime, buy one!

 

Welcome to the forum

 

 

ETA- any issues that may arise can be dealt with by fellow members or some of the excellent business members on this forum. Or in the wealth of knowledge that exists with the search engine.

 

He speeks the truth!

[gunfun 3,931]

Another thing to consider is that there really isn't anything comparable. Most of the other auto shotguns have been well over a thousand forever. In the last few years they have been making cheaper versions of 2 or three of them for around $400., but basically all of them have the same drawbacks: they are either good at high brass, or low brass, but not both. That's come a long way recently, but it is still an issue. The S12 is less ammo picky than almost everything, and doesn't need cleaned constantly to be reliable, like a lot of gas guns.

 

the S12 is very easy to maintain, and it either works all the time or none of the time (with low brass). you won't get surprises. If it isn't working, it is usually obvious what needs done. In most cases the fix is cheap, minor, and something you can do yourself. Then it moves into the always works category. Either way it should work all the time with any ammo you would consider for Home Defense. And there is still the warranty when you buy new.

 

Anyway, it is good out of the box for high brass for sure, and might need about $20 to make it run low brass. you are probably going to spend another $100 or more on mags if you buy it too. But If you choose between spending $1000 ($1200 is closer) on something made by benelli, Remington, Winchester, browning or whatever, or on a siaga, you will get a way more awesome gun for your money. You should be able to do a home conversion with a few bigger magazines for Around $800 and have it run awesome, or keep it sporter and swap the puck and forend or muzzle device (to allow big mags) for maybe $90 more than the sticker price of the gun. That's way better unless you need to shoot 3.5" shells for turkey hunting.

 

Now if you want mag fed, the only other practical option available in the US right now is the AdKal 1919. That looks good, but it costs more than twice as much is impossible to find, and I don't think you can get parts or big magazines yet. In a couple of yeas it will probably be an awesome choice, but it will still cost way more.

 

That said people choose to spend way more, because they can. I bought 2, and I thought like you.$400 sounded like a lot for a shotgun.

 

The first one cost ~$600 plus $120 in mags, and $40 for a KA puck to make it run low brass.(It ran all but one brand, but I just wanted to make it complete) (MD is $20 now) I then bought a choke for ~$50. So ~$850 bought me a mag fed gun that eats everything and then had a 5, 8, and 12 shot mag, and a choke. It was still sporting format, but 922® compliant at that state. It was then way better than any other shotgun I had tried. No regrets. There are more choices and they are a bit cheaper now for each of the parts I bought.

 

(I've gotten some other junk on that one since, but nothing necessary. Magwell, lots of mags, paradox choke and scope for slugs, hinge. Conversion parts and different furniture too) ~$250 more, bargain hunting on the WTB section here. It could use some touch ups on the cosmetics, but should hold its own in a competition at this state. How much does a competition tactical shotgun cost? Way more than mine.

 

The second one I got Un-Used for $200 from a coworker, with 4 factory mags. I sold 3 of them to buy conversion parts, and now have maybe $260 into it counting only the one mag left (I have a bunch of mags from the first gun so I didn't need more) It ran the cheapest low brass from day one.

Edited October 27, 2011 by GunFun

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I "spend" about 12-14 hours working on them straight out of the box and an additional 6-8 hours if the conversion will involve an AK100 folder. Bear in mind, these are my personal weapons and I am not trying to rush them out the door to make a profit.

 

They are worth it.... when I am done. Until then, the are low-life-scum-sucking-maggots....

Edited October 27, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[timy 1,185]

Sorry but you are asking the wrong people if you want someone to tell you "no.". I have over 1500 in mine and think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't make a lot of money but it's all relative to what is important to you. Most here are very passionate about their saigas!

I get it and agree...................they are worth the money. But could somebody please answer my question: Why can't the gas port / block situation can't be sorted out and corrected at the factory ?

Perhaps a partial answer. They really didn't pay much attention to the number/size of the gas ports at the factory initially because the Russian military was their primary customer and all they ran were high power loads. These loads would cycle the action regardless of the gas port configuration. The cycling problem came up when Americans got the guns and tried running a wide variety of low power/low quality shells. The factory responded to a degree with larger/more ports, but really didn't care too much.

Thank you......................that makes sense. Now I get it.

 

You're welcome. I gleaned this information from the forum so I can't say for sure that it's 100% accurate but I believe it is.

 

A bit more; the military shotguns had/have(?) only two gas ports and some of those barrels accidentally got installed on civilian guns, which caused an under gassing problem with low power shells. I believe RAA had to drill extra holes on quite a few because of this. I could be wrong, but I think that complaints to the factory (without adequate communication apparently) resulted in them punching four holes in some of the export barrels for a while after that. So we ended up with two, three and four hole guns, causing under/over gassed conditions on some of them. As I think you already know, to further complicate matters a good percentage of the three hole models had holes partially covered by the gas blocks. Fun, fun, fun, huh?

[washburnizer 8]

In a word, yes. my Saiga 12 was a 2008 production 3 port gun. It would not cycle bulk pack low brass out of the box. Sent it to Cadiz gun works, had ports enlarged and bolt/carrier polished. Converted it myself using parts from CSS. It is now my favorite gun. So fun to shoot. 20 round mag dumps are FUN!

 

Just be prepared to have to put in a little time and/or spend a little cash to get it the way you want it. I know about 7 other people with Saiga 12s. All of them, but mine, ran bulk pack low brass right out of the box. So not every Saiga has issues out of the box. Mine did, and getting them fixed/fixing them, though frustating at the time, was fun now that I'm looking back on it.

[armalite 6]

At $300-$400 for the gun was worth it. Now its $700 and most of them some run until you dump another $300 into overhauling the gas system and converting the trigger. IT isn't worth $ anymore and hard work not to mention you can't trust it with your kife cause it fucking jams like cars on a freeway. Buy an AR-15

[Sergii 142]

Why do you have any problems with the Saiga?

How do you shoot bullets? What is the weight of the charge?

We all shot a 28-32gramm and no problems.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Sergii

[zenman223 460]

At $300-$400 for the gun was worth it. Now its $700 and most of them some run until you dump another $300 into overhauling the gas system and converting the trigger. IT isn't worth $ anymore and hard work not to mention you can't trust it with your kife cause it fucking jams like cars on a freeway. Buy an AR-15

Some people may have to spend money to fix the gas system but only if there lazy or just not mechanically inclined. I reprofiled and polished my bolt.carrier,rails and trigger with a dremel. I also removed my gasblock 3 times with a piece of scrap aluminum and a hammer. Opened up the three TINY ports and added a fourth. This was all done with a drill,hammer & dremel. Now my gun runs as well as any of the high dollar Saiga's. Theres no reason to spend any money on this gun other than conversion parts.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I bought mine at the height of the Obamania.

Unconverted, it ran damn near perfectly out of the box, and it eats Wally World bulk Federal like a fat kid eats McDonalds.

I then spent plenty of money on conversion parts, paint, furniture, then different furniture, then there was various pucks, sights, two MD20s and a bunch of Surefire mags.

All the furniture, parts and mags worked just fine, changing furniture was just aesthetics.

 

Did all the work myself.

I would, without a second thought, take my S12 around the block during a Zombie Apocalypse.

 

$800. gun

$675. mags/drums

$400. Misc Parts

Happily blowing $1000.s in ammo... $Priceless$

Edited October 28, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[glennhmd 23]

i paid $1,600 (equivalent money) for my stock S12 and i can't even find spare mags for it (locally). despite all these, if you ask me the question is the Saiga 12 worth it...

 

short answer is HELL YEAH!

[scstrain 8]

OK......................THEY ARE WORTH IT !!!!!

 

However, their largest non military market is the U.S.A. I will never understand why the gas block can't be put on correctly over the gas ports as to not block them, and why there is no consistancy with the number of gas ports.

 

It is just shody workmanship. You can like Saiga 12's, and think that they are worth it but still not have blinders on. The whole "Gas port/block" issue is a joke that could easily be corrected at the factory.

Edited October 28, 2011 by scstrain

[esremt 1]

The fact is a S12 is better than any shotgun the US military ha. I use to want Benelli M4 or a SPAZ12 this both cost over a grand and are external box Fe. I picked mine up for $675.00 got it home cleaned it and ran 13 rounds through it it less than an hour of owning it. I of my favorite weapons seem to be the most expensive. This is the least expensive of the lot of absolutely love. I'm just aggravated I didn't have the money when they were $525.00 but it's well worth the price tag

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Cadiz will repair a fucked up gun under warranty, a couple of these guns have arrived in country with no gas ports at all... they aren't the best gun on the market but the first time you dump an MD-20 in five seconds, its worth it!

[spaniel 7]

If you want a perfect gun out of the box, there are lots of Remingtons/Winchesters/Benellis out there in standard configurations.

 

The Saiga is different. If you are a moron with tools, it is not the gun for you unless you have a deep wallet. I bought mine because a) they are a unique and interesting firearm, and I WANTED a project that would occupy my hands for awhile.

 

All told, I probably spend 20+ hours tinkering with my Saiga from the time it came out of the box until I had it finished. I considered it time well spent.

 

Same reason I am looking at Savages for bolt actions, I can build them completely by myself without sending to a gunsmith.

[CROM 3]

I'm somewhat of a newb here, having only acquired my s12 within the past 12 months, so take this for what it is worth.

 

The S12 is not some state-of-the-art weapon that has gobs of tech inside and out. It doesn't appear to be made in a fancy factory by highly trained engineers on space age equipment. The paint job sucks. When you open it up you think it has to be missing parts. It is a simple, sloppy, plain looking gun out of the box.

 

BUT that is also the beauty of this firearm. It's basic and simple. It is VERY easy to work on. A moron with basic hand tools can do the trigger conversion. Once converted the S12 looks downright badass and will turn heads. I didn't have any port issues and I don't think most of the new ones do. Plus they are 500-550 now, I paid 700 for mine. I have a 24" barrel, meant to get a 19" but oh well, I messed up my order. I like my 24" and will probably get a 19" after I get over my recent 1911 and AR-15 fetish.

 

I have only shot my S12 on one outing (Ranges aren't abundant in my area) I put 250 rounds through it (slugs, target/game loads, and some type of birdshot reloads). I just had shoulder surgery, but I did it anyway. My entire shoulder was black and blue from that day. MD20 dumps are orgasmic. 8 round mag dumps are also exciting. Pulling the trigger as fast as you can with a SHOTGUN...knowing you just fired off 10 shotgun shells in 3 seconds...THAT is why the S12 is worth getting. It's been 6 months since I shot it, but I'm still grinning ear to ear everytime I think about it. BTW- bought myself a 250 case of Centurion ball slugs. I can't wait!

Edited January 22, 2012 by CROM

[ATD 2]

while I am sorry to the people that have gotten the "vodka specials" I have had 4 of Saiga 12s(still have 3) and all of them would cycle federal bulk pack stuff from wal-mart right out of the box. no break in, no modifications, just slap in a mag full and rock n roll, before conversion, and after conversion. I've pheasant hunted and dove hunted with mine. I've shot rifled slugs through one until there was big lead streaks down the barrel. For a long while I didn't know that the puck was supposed to come out because I had built up enough carbon on mine to hold it in by shooting it so much between the bought it and first cleaning of it. I about freaked when it fell out while I was cleaning it a while later.

 

buy one, shoot it, if it doesn't work take it back, or like the large percentage of us here, look at it as a challenge and break out the tools.

 

some of us are just a little different. I hardly ever buy a gun with the intention of leaving it alone. I refinished my Vepr in 7.62. Added a bipod mount and a bayonet lug to my M1A. Swapped around parts on my Garand, Changed springs in my 625, changed furniture on my 870, I've got no less then 5 projects out ahead of me, and more planned in the future.

 

If you don't want to tinker with your guns, buy one the way you want it Saiga or not. if you do want to have a gun made just the way YOU want and are willing to put in a bit of work for it. buy a Saiga.

[tommygunner 13]

Is my S12 worth it? YOU BET!! Unlike many here, I bought my S-12 to hunt with. So i got the 24". the first time i took it out to shoot clay birds i was very impressed with it. Altho It did not really like cheap low base. It still shot great and ran hunting loads just fine. Took it home did a little work on the gas block and some polishing. All fixed. Run cheapo target stuff thru it fine for fun.

I like my S12 better than my Rem 1100, 870 and Mossberg 500. I hardly ever take them out anymore to hunt with. My s12 is just flat deadly. My hunting buddys call it Darth Vader.

With the addition of a recoil pad and poly choke there is little recoil even with the heavest loads.It shoots so fast someone asked me if it was a full auto. Love the fact i dont have to reload. Just slap in a new mag and I'm back shooting. Is it a sporting gun?? MMMm probabally not it does not give birds much of a chance. Neither do I. I like to go out and get it done. I wanted a freezer filler. My S-12 does that very well.