Saiga20InMyHome 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 I recently received a most unexpected and substantial amount of expendable cash. I've spent many a afternoons sitting on my crapper thinking of what to do with the money. Obviously, I've already added to my gun collection, but I don't want to blow it all on guns. I want to make an investment. So I came up with the bright idea to build a gun range. Obviously, first I'll need to buy some acreage. My question(s): How much acreage should I buy? What kind of ranges should I build? What should I do for my back stop? Baffles & Berms? What kind of services/perks/special offers should I offer to my members? What kind of pricing should I think about for memberships? What am I looking at in the way of licenses and insurance? What kind of additional structures should I build on the site? Anything else? All ideas/comments/questions/concerns/criticism are welcome. This is an open topic and feel free to contribute anything you feel is relevant, but don't hijack my thread, cuz I hate that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Before you spend dime one on the project, make sure you can get zoned. Here locally, three- count 'em, three prospective shooting ranges have been nixed in the past two years. All were proposed by people with very deep pockets who could get anything else they wanted out of the commission, but not zoning for a range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga20InMyHome 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 I'm not worried about zoning...My family was one of three familes that founded this town, so we get whatever we want. We had a roadside stand in a farm zone, and applied for a variance, and it was approved before we signed anything...Thanks for the tip though...That's what I want, stuff that you wouldn't think about... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akspec 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 What area of the country do you live in? Maybe I'm close by? I have been pondering the idea for some time now mostly on a smaller scale like for private use. I thought about using telephone poles and cross ties for holding back fill dirt to make a berm. That is if you don't have a big hill to dig back into. This kinda stuff makes me gettie it's like building a fort! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 How much acreage should I buy? Personally I would want at least 400 acres. A range I shoot at north of me has that much. Plenty of room for all kinds of ranges. What kind of ranges should I build? 1) 7 & 15 yard range ( 22 rimfires & centerfire pistol calibers only ) 2) 25 & 50 yard range ( all pistol and rifle calibers ) 3) 50 & 100 yard range ( all pistol and rifle calibers ) 4) 500 & 1000 yard range ( shooters have to be able to keep rounds at least on the paper to be allowed to shoot on this range ) 5) Several small ranges for action pistol/ cowboy action 6) combat shotgun course 7) skeet / sporting clays / trap 8) Open range ( for Machine Gun shoots ) 500 yds deep with big backstop and as wide as you can possible allow. The range I go to has 2 yearly machine gun ( spring & fall ) shoots with approx. 75 points on the firing line for rent ( $100 ) for two days. What should I do for my back stop? Baffles & Berms? Natural berms if available... if not you will need a dozer. Baffles are something you will have to research what works best for you. I also like baffles built close to the line to keep people from shooting over berms. What kind of services/perks/special offers should I offer to my members? What kind of pricing should I think about for memberships? Personally, I would want a "private" range with very limited access to the public. I would want the public to have ONE range that was seperated from all the other ranges. This way you could charge $15 dollars/ person for a day of shooting on a 7 / 15 yd pistol range and maybe create potential "private members". Public users would not be permitted to "roam" the range but could be given a "guided" tour if they request it. Private members would frown on just anybody roaming around... "Private fees" can range depending on what you offer ( or build ) and what your clientele would be willing to spend. You want it expensive enough to keep undesireables ( people who rarely shoot and will destroy the range ) from joining. I know of a small range that charges $75 a year The range I belong to is the ONLY range within 1 1/2 hour drive. I believe they now charge $240 initiation fee / $180 annual dues. They have a monopoly... Also make sure all private members are also required to maintain membership in the NRA. What am I looking at in the way of licenses and insurance? dunno What kind of additional structures should I build on the site? Anything else? Pavilion for outdoor get-togethers and cookouts and maybe a pole barn for outdoor activities or gunshows. LB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gould 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 You might try this link for some resources: http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga20InMyHome 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Some great ideas there, fellas! If anyone wants to talk to me about this, I have MSN messanger (mrniceguyeddie@hotmail.com) and I have AIM messanger (theniceguyeddie). Keep em comin! p.s. this range will be built in florabama...you know that area of alabama and florida where they sort of blend together Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 (edited) Really, I wouldn't take zoning for granted. If you are confident you can get it, all the better, but don't start the project until you have comitments. The guys here who wanted to do ranges (and even broke ground on a couple) all said the exact same things you did... My family founded this town, I got a variance before, etc. There is usually zero opposition to a roadside fruit stand an an AG zone, but there WILL FOR SURE be at least some opposition to a range. I think the range USMC is thinking about is everyones range 'in a perfect world', but you must constrain your plans with your finances. 400 acres would be nice, but unless you came into an INSANE amount of money, 400 suitable acres in the area you are talking about is at the minimum a seven digit proposal before you spend anything on construction. As far as range facilities, build well but build cheap save for the clubhouse. Every hurricane that passes by WILL blow down all your shooting berths, any mobile or modular structures you have on the property, etc... Build them right so they last, but expect to lose them from time to time. You will need to set aside a substantial amount for liability insurance, advertising and operating expenses. Shooting ranges are large, improved properties and are taxes as such. To keep them profitable you must have shooters incoming. Word of mouth is important, but advertising is critical and it isn't free. Range Officers can usually be had for free in exchange for memberships (lots of guys are willing to spend weekends slumming around the range), so there isn't any expense there. Bear in mind, the larger the range the more RO's you will need, and if it's big enough, it might run over from a gimme to an actual expense. On liability insurance, you've got to have it and you've got to have a large amount. One asshole- one single asshole can cost you everything in an instant. We've all been to ranges and seen these idiots; keep them in mind. When you own the range, these people aren't just morons you can blow off; they are a severe liability to your financial well being. To help with zoning, give cops free or deeply discounted memberships. This will bend the commission in your direction and create the aura of the range being as much a 'public service' as it is a profit operation. Know your market. If you have a range that allows NFA, hard and fast shooting, drawing from concealment, etc you WILL lose the fudds who like to peacefully sit at the end berth shooting their 278/4921 Bizarro Super through a chrony and keeping detailed journals of the results. You WILL lose some of the deer hunters who come to the range to sight in their deer rifles but 'take offense' to machineguns (read- Jealous). You WILL lose some of the old men who come there to shoot clays. If you start instituting policies regarding magazine capacity, 'rounds fired per second, etc, you will lose every AR shooter, practical pistol shooter, etc. There is no way to make everyone happy. When owning your range, you can expect the following. People who shoot at the target stands, people who shoot at the light poles, people who take pot shots at flying birds, people who haul old appliances out to your property, shoot them up and leave them... You will lock the range up on a Sunday only to return Monday morning and find bullet holes in the club house, .22 rimfire holes fired into the lawn mower, etc... Edited August 7, 2005 by McUZI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga20InMyHome 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Thanks, mcuzi, for your insight reply. Let me address a few things. After taxes, I'll have around 435,000 to play with, so finances are none of my concern. For the first few years, as long as I make enough from membership fees to cover my overhead, I'm just gonna have a fun time doing it. After I've had some time to see what the market is like, and what and how people want to shoot, I can make changes. I've already been in touch with the police chief and he told me it was a great idea, and he would gladly move qualifications and special events there. I told him in exchenge for some extra security, and maybe some time for my members with law enforcement weapons, I would offer free memberships to all full time police officers. You're right, plenty of volunteers already to be RSO's. As far as accommodating shooters of different types, I'm thinking of having designated days for certain types of shooting, to allow people the peace and quiet of sighting their long arms. The "roadside fruit stand" was actually a 4 acre landscaping business, that now ships statewide. And we actually had locals oppose it, and protest and write letters, blah blah blah, but our pull was too great for that. I don't want to hear about the negative aspects of building a range. I want to hear ideas on how to make it work. I've spent plenty of time on ranges, and I've seen bad things happen, including death, and I was looking for some ideas on how to curtail these things from happening. I know they happen, let's hear how we can stop it. I want to hear what YOU would expect if you walked into a range facility that you paid $$$$$$ to be a member of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo 26 2 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Thanks, mcuzi, for your insight reply. Let me address a few things. After taxes, I'll have around 435,000 to play with, so finances are none of my concern. For the first few years, as long as I make enough from membership fees to cover my overhead, I'm just gonna have a fun time doing it. After I've had some time to see what the market is like, and what and how people want to shoot, I can make changes. I've already been in touch with the police chief and he told me it was a great idea, and he would gladly move qualifications and special events there. I told him in exchenge for some extra security, and maybe some time for my members with law enforcement weapons, I would offer free memberships to all full time police officers. You're right, plenty of volunteers already to be RSO's. As far as accommodating shooters of different types, I'm thinking of having designated days for certain types of shooting, to allow people the peace and quiet of sighting their long arms. The "roadside fruit stand" was actually a 4 acre landscaping business, that now ships statewide. And we actually had locals oppose it, and protest and write letters, blah blah blah, but our pull was too great for that. I don't want to hear about the negative aspects of building a range. I want to hear ideas on how to make it work. I've spent plenty of time on ranges, and I've seen bad things happen, including death, and I was looking for some ideas on how to curtail these things from happening. I know they happen, let's hear how we can stop it. I want to hear what YOU would expect if you walked into a range facility that you paid $$$$$$ to be a member of. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1st off, congrats on the fat loot!. Second, do some reading on EPA regs reguarding ranges, talk to the DNR guys in your state about what they have to do to comply with the regs on all this stuff. I have seen ranges shut down cause of EPA regs. cool stuff: a "Range Hot" and "Range Cold" light on each range so dumbasses wont send rounds downrange when I am re-setting my targets.... a simple range flag (red when shooters are present) on each range, so when i know to put on my ears before getting out of the truck and getting an eardrum full of .50 BMG ( I have seen idiots get out of thier trucks and complain whent hey didnt put on thier ears, and I cut loose with my S-12....dipshits) Vending machines with cokes, water, etc....very usefull in the summer, and another profit maker to boot.... Good luck!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 (edited) Edited August 7, 2005 by McUZI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga20InMyHome 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 cool stuff: a "Range Hot" and "Range Cold" light on each range so dumbasses wont send rounds downrange when I am re-setting my targets.... a simple range flag (red when shooters are present) on each range, so when i know to put on my ears before getting out of the truck and getting an eardrum full of .50 BMG ( I have seen idiots get out of thier trucks and complain whent hey didnt put on thier ears, and I cut loose with my S-12....dipshits) Vending machines with cokes, water, etc....very usefull in the summer, and another profit maker to boot.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's a fantastic idea...that's exactly what i'm looking for bravo! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaShooter 0 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 How much acreage should I buy? really depends on what you want to build What kind of ranges should I build? Personally I'd build: Handgun range 5, 15, 25, 30, 40 yards, Range for the hunters 50, ,75, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300 yards Marksmanship range 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 yards Shotgun patterning range 15, 25, 35 yards AR range 25, 50, 100, 150, 200 yards Skeet range 60 yards deep Some kind of moving target range What should I do for my back stop? Baffles & Berms? Dirt. Lots of it. Keep in mind, you'll have to pull lead out of it eventually, so you dont get ricochets. Also, make it so that the shooters can use trenches to change their targets. At our range the dirt walls are held back by telephone poles and railroad ties. What kind of services/perks/special offers should I offer to my members? Invitations to shooting competitions whatever sounds good to you. What kind of pricing should I think about for memberships? Depends, do you want this to be a high class type place, or a place where the average joe (me) can come and empty some magazines. The range i go to (public) charges $3 to shoot all day, or you can buy a season pass for $30 They also offer targets, clays, shooting bags and rests and hearing protection. What am I looking at in the way of licenses and insurance? Dunno. What kind of additional structures should I build on the site? Check in building, restroom, convention type lodge, a training town for law enforcement, pro shop perhaps. Anything else? Make clear policies about what can and cannot be shot at. Can I shoot paper targets only or can i bring my old microwave? Rapid fire policy, some places get pissy if you do it. Have a corkboard that can be used to notify people about events. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 one thing you could think of attempting is making a tactical entry house. the police will have to donate to your range SOMETHING. id imagine if you could get good instructors out at a place like that, that you would have a hard time scheduling everyone that would want to go there and get a work out or even learn how to REALLY shoot. (hunting from a stand and bench shooting is not appealing at all to me...i was bump firing my s12 while shooting skeet today, for instance. you have to account for people like me that are even worse....stupid with it) i cant give much opinion otherwise on your ideas but i will say this. public ranges are a tough thing to do per hour. you get all KINDS of idiots. and you are liable. you might have a smaller fee for a ten hour block of time that has to be applied for in advance? maybe? i dunno. im in new york. we see it all here. i know of ONE range left here that is open to the public, and it is a skeet only range. ALL ranges require membership here. for your info, membership rates generally are 300-400 first, ten hours labor a year (or cash donation to weazle out of that), and then its about half of that to remain a member. one thing i think everybody missed? not sure, i gave this thread a good once over, maybe i missed it....is a place to FISH. i dont know how much fishing water you have, but a decent pond with good fish and catch and release is always a good thing. you can call it a sportsman's club then instead of a shooting range. i guess you could list it as both? a pond is good because if you keep (like you should keep) a fire hose pump with a 2 or 3" hose, you have a supply of water to put out any brush or grass fires with if one is ignited by some crazy bastard that just dumped 100 rounds of tracers downrange (like myself). the clubs here have acreage ranging from 50 acres to thousands of acres. the larger ones are all posted hunting lands with a small club, range, and all the perks. very expensive to join. half of them are private clubs that none of the locals can even get into, as it is all NYC assholes. i can tell you many stories of misfires and all that. i even had a bronx guy actually walk into my line of fire on my property during hunting season when i was shooting one day. i think that is what you want to avoid, is attracting people that are like that. always works out to be a bad thing, and the local populace WILL turn against you. you have enough cash where you can get into real estate. you should do both at once. find a place where the land will go up soon, and use it well. when its up and you want your money, cash out, subdivide the range, and there you go. just my two cents. i dont want to tell you how to spend your money, but thats what i would do. good luck. dont be afraid to donate to this forum while you are at it. max flips the bill personally every month, so any and all donations are much appreciated by him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 We have just re-opened our range after 4 1/2 years. We are located in MD, about 12 miles from Wash. D.C. . The new range is 100% no blue sky (overhead baffles covered firing positions. ) It has the blessing of all local authorities. Not an easy task, as it abuts a popular hiking trail, is less than a mile from some very expensive houses and an equestrian facility, and we are in the heart of liberal anti-gun P.G. County. Our web is www.berwyn.org . This type of range is the future, and it will be almost impossible to get insured unless you have the "no blue sky" overhead baffles. Also the NRA does have some excellent recorses. Try www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/rangedev.asp or call (703) 267 1023. They have a $395 range development course that is excellent. (their newsletter was ironic this month, as they refer to our range, but not by name. It was the authors opinion that we might never reopen. This was recieved the day before the injunction was lifted and we again went live!) However all the things that they recomend ,are exactly what we did to satisfy the court and have our injunction lifted. Good luck my friend. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) I belong to this club... Falcon Sportsmen Club 10 bucks a year annual dues for a family... and 8 bucks a year for a single.. you CANNOT GO WRONG... Mind you its a small club... but it WORKS... and for me, its close... like less than 5 miles away... I want to point out the snow fencing used to hang targets on... its VERY CHEAP, and VERY EASY to replace... and lasts decently against all types of shooting... They drove in two heavy rebar posts, then wired the snowfence to those... simple, done... clothespins to hang targets to the snowfence with... and its a PAPER ONLY range... no carboard, no junk, no cans/bottles.... Personally, I think of it as a home away from home... its got a good membership and the guys that are members really care about the place... THATS the important thing... Edited August 9, 2005 by IndyArms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twinhairdryers 2 Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 This is the website for the coolest local range around here. http://www.antelopeclub.org/ I would start out with a few basic ranges and yardage and work your way up for demand. 7, 25, 50, 100 yards to start with and a shotgun patterning pit, open field clay area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakeThePimp 0 Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Don't forget about having a nice selection of rental guns around. I don't have many guns and I prefer going to this one indoor range b/c they have a nice selection of rental guns even though it's further away & more expensive to shoot there. I'll go with two or three friends and we all chip in for some hand cannon w/ $2.00 Bullets. Try to have a nice selection of ammo around and try to keep it priced fair. A smaller outdoor range that I went to made you use there ammo in exhange for range time, they had one box of 250 Savage that they wanted $55 for. I haven't been back. I've always thought about a fireing line with Garage style doors. Close 'em all and it's time to change the targets, open 'em up and it's shootin time. Heavy duty solid targets down range, Ring the bell at 500yrds to impress the ladies.... -JTP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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