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12ga, 10ga, 8ga, 4ga FH; 585HE / 700HE; Other Big Bores


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Here is picture of  thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex  case, and our HE case,

The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..

These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....

 

brandv.jpg 

 

Got guys asking and doing it,  to do 416 HSM  case for BMG actions, so  leaving rim same,

as  the original bmg rim, so  will neck them,  fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.  

Base a little bigger, Shoulder  same diameter,  same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..

 

Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.

Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.

And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done

clear up to 550 gr...

 

So there will be 3 versions, one for actions  .750" bolt, one for  .800-.850" bolt,  

And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..

 

Here is   416 HSM  guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed

 

 

mrcphhsm.jpg 
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I'm visiting here to talk about the 12ga From Hell and other developements it has led to.Nice site you folks have. I'm with a group of experimenters passing on the years of info and pictures to all

More history of firsts, in our 12ga FH and big bore work.   The first gun of mine to have this case was my Savage 210 in first picture with a regular style heavy stock. Later changed to thumbhole

amazing! I have seen this one other place online, but forget where...

Here is sectioned 585  HE case in the middle, we first  made from

 

another case, years ago  before we had factory run of brass and

 

 it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.

 

We could fire them many times without sides thinning..

 

First case is  factory run of  our 585 HE,  3rd  is case that is too thick

 

of  sides and sticks at high pressures..

 

goodone.jpg 

 

Here is pic of  our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times

 

at high pressure on the right,  with unfired case on the left. Our case is not

 

perfect but does work...Ed

 

he4times.jpg

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About 416 cal bullets............

The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably  be best 8 to 1  twist , in 416 caliber bullet,
and 520 gr 9.5 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Some barrels I picked up are  10 to 1.......

Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better
long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier 550 gr bullets for ELR.
Making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin,
like our hollow base 585 cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist, or less
while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1 to stabilise them..............

The winner of the King Of 2 Mile shoot last week was using 416 Barrett with a 1 to 10
twist, with a 500 gr CEB Lazer bullet, ...Robert Brantley, with Manners Stocks....

Paul Philips was third with a 416...

GOOD NEWS-- There is now an importer and seller of our 585 HE brass getting set up here,
 in US, hopefully will be in stock, few weeks........   http://bertrambrass.com  .. .. Caleb Hallet..

Have got another  intermediate size action besides the Montana PH our guys working on,
to do speed testingwith. It is  big long REM style action that can take our 416 HSM, ED

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Experimental intermediate size action with  the Montana PH, for comparison.

It is an experimental action for our 416 HSM, to do our speed testing with

and get a better action than Cheytac size actions, for bigger case ELR use,

without going all way up to more expensive, huge actions.

 It is  big long round style action that can take our 416 HSM, almost

 1.6" diameter and .800" bolt, with locking lugs nearly as big as most

BMG actions.... ED


intermediates.jpg
 

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Here is picture of the bolt from the experimental action,

with our 416 HSM case in it. Note the amount of the

base size of locking lugs, the amount of  area on the bolt..


interboltp.jpg


Here is link to guy doing special 585 HE in the EU, 

Good pictures............www.585he.cz

We tested intermediate action with a 700HE  barrel we had here.

Just temporary to test strength. 1000 gr over 3100..

 Action worked fine.. Ed.

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None of HSM cases are too thin,

 

Yes we use BMG primers..in the HSM.

 

 

Here is picture of our 416HSM cases with screw in shellholders, 

for Ammomaster, etc, and slip in shellholders for regular presses

Also have some for big LEE Classic and Smart Reloader presses..

A 378 WEA MAG in picture for comparison...


Second is stacks of  416 HSM, about a third fireformed

and the rest  to be fireformed... So far total about 1700, Ed

hsmholders.jpg

workinghsm.jpg
 

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Bob Snapp, 90, the great Gun Craftsman, of 

Clare, Michigan, passed away Jan 28th....

He was an esteemed member of the

American Custom Gunmakers Guild,

Being its president in 1992..He liked

working with Martini Cadet singleshot rifles

.Worked with guys testing armor long time ago.

Maybe the 1st to do 20mm necked down to 50cal

We lost a great friend,,,Ed
 

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Bob Snapp, 90, the great Gun Craftsman, of 

Clare, Michigan, passed away Jan 28th....

He was an esteemed member of the

American Custom Gunmakers Guild,

Being its president in 1992..He liked

working with Martini Cadet singleshot rifles

.Worked with guys testing armor long time ago.

Maybe the 1st to do 20mm necked down to 50cal

We lost a great friend,,,Ed
 

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.....


It is possible  rig up holders for many types setups., 

About shellholder supply for big cases,

RCBS and others make slip in holders for shotgun cases

that can work or reworked for big rimmed rifle cases...

Here are various sizes.......

16ga-- .810" rim,........  20ga--  .760" rim,....   

24ga--  .725" rim,.......   28ga  .680" rim....

Ch4d and Buffalo Arms also have these larger shellholders...


We fireform the 416 HSM  with 65 gr of medium speed 

surplus powder, with rest of case filled with farina

and grits mix, with a play dough plug in the neck. 

It is  loud, so we shoot it into big container through a barrel size

size hole, so the sound is muffled, so it doesn't deafen us.. 


It is great getting more companies making  416 caliber bullets, 

long target and bore rider bullets. Ed..

....

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Wonder if a PTRD with 5 ft long  barrel is stable enough 

for  ELR ,  rebarrel to 416 and use our 416 HSM, 500 gr bullet ....

.Here is up north guy using 585 HE in a PTRD with inserts,

Light load.....Inserts are in the shape of the 14.5mm  case....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyabm-cbwgc&feature=youtu.be


HERE ia video, 585 Hubel Express and water jugs - slow motion

750 gr with 155gr  RE17,  just a moderate load.....Ed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXAo1mJqw8Y

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20mm Vulcan is a big case that works ok, without having 

the sides made too thick...They have  thinner sides

than smaller  cases guys are getting  that have the sides

 made too thick and won't extract easy or work with high pressures.


Here   Barnard P Cheytac bolt that would do for our 416 HSM..Ed......

barnpchey.jpg

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Got guys doing  various 416 HEs..

One just  built a 416 HE,  just been  testing it a few days..

And using  168gr of HBMG 475 gr CEB,  tested it, in good 

conditions, 2 shots at 1800 yards and  was within 

a 1/4 of minute accuracy...A few shots at shorter ranges

had same accuracy. Ed..
 

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More about our 416 HSM  from BMG brass,  and
our  416 HE  &  460 HE  from our 585 HE cases
Got reamers for 375 HE, 416 HE  and 416 HSM,....

 460 HE & 460 HSM are all spec'd, got  HE reamer,
soon have HSM reamer...Our HSMs have a Wea type
radius on the shoulder..
Guys getting ready to do 460 HE and 460 HSM.

The fellow that  set up our 416 HE in an ELR rifle
and tested it at  1200 & 1800 yds ,

 They got some game out west over 1400 yds..
.Here is the gun they set up.
Using a  K&P 34" barrel on a BAT action.....Ed

 

 

 

http://www.gunownerstv.com/jacobgun.jpg

Edited by hubel458
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The guys that did the super accurate 416 HE did another
416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..

Used a Stiller action and same load with 475 gr bullet, as in
first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy.
3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.
 
And loads they used are not the highest speed loads
the cartridge is capable of....Here is  print with specs for
the 416 HE reamer chamber ....Ed....

416heream.jpg

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More about he guys that did the  accurate 416 HE, they  did a
416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..

Used longer barrel and the same load with 475 gr bullet, as used
in the first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy,.
3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.
 
And loads they used are not the highest speed loads
the cartridge is capable of....Here is picture.......Ed....


jacobgun2.jpg
 

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Here is print with chamber reamer specs for the
 416 HSM  chamber..There are 3 base sizes we have,
depending on actions used. Got reamers for all 3..
Got cases for all of them..
Our cases are public domain, so that is why I post
info and specs.  Manson makes reamers I use,,, Ed.
416hsmream.jpg
 

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Here is experimental action for 416 HSM in a heavy
 stock....We lengthened port a little, set bolt stop back ,
  opened bolt face fit the 416 HSM    rebated rim.  Ed. 
intertarget.jpg
Here is comparison of Montana PH to Pierce action we 
modified to use for rebated rim 416 HSM testing..Ed. 
intermediates.jpg
 

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