WLD1783 0 Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Looking for advice on using hand loaded slugs trough my Saiga 12. The Barrel is .717" and the 1-1/8 DGS-12 is .727" and the 1 oz AQ Slug is .729" Dia I know a tight fit is required for accuracy. But Squeezing a hard round ball through a tight cylinder could be like a "virgin prom night" exploding with unintended consequences. Looking for experience in using these through a Saiga 12 and perhaps some load data. What I want to avoid is excessive chamber pressure. Thanks Bill Edited December 23, 2011 by WLD1783 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'm loading the Lee 1 oz. slugs that are used with standard wads, in Remington STS/Nitro hulls, using data straight off the Hodgdon site. No problems at all with them. They Chrono'ed at just over 1300 out of my 19" Saiga. I've also fired a bunch of Remington 3" slugs through it. Those averaged 1588 fps. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted December 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Netpackrat Thanks But looking for the DGS and AQ Slug info on a tight or not so tight barrel. I think the slugs will be squeezed and work well but a minimum diameter barrel or choke would be great. There has to be a recognized min diameter choke on these. BTW what size groups are you getting out of them at 50 and 100 yards. i'm interested as I do cast....Who knows all that Linotype might be worth something . Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I don't know what DGS or AQ are. I haven't fired for groups at those ranges since my interest for the shotgun is closer. If a bear is at 50 or 100 yards, it isn't posing much of a danger to me, so I'm not all that interested in shooting it. If I'm actually hunting something I will use a rifle. I adjusted the sights for my carry slugs (the Rem 3 inchers) at 25 yards, and then verified that the handloads shoot to the same point of impact at that range. Not really interested in turning the shotgun into something that it is not. It's a cylinder bore lead hose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted December 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) Here are a couple of pics. The slugs are from Ballistic Products. As far as accuracy I'm a bit of a snob. An eight inch group at 25 yards just wont do it for me, but to hit a steel pop up with a heavy slug at 100yards is a lot of fun. These are designed to stabilize and do just that out of a smooth bore. Just want to ensure the Saiga choke is not too tight as these are .010" wider than the end of the barrel. Edited December 24, 2011 by WLD1783 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I want to get the lyman slug mould and start making my own Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Looks Like an adult BB gun...Like it Have not tried it but will do. Any idea on accuracy from a smooth bore. Also whats the max dia? Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stoopidpeopleisee 0 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 dont know if it helps, but ive fired standard remington "slugger" slugs out of my s12 with no choke on it and all were within 8-10 inch @100 yds....no choke just smoothbore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thats the accuracy I was looking for. Just still have to find out if the slugs could be squeezed .009" without any pressure issues. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Looks Like an adult BB gun...Like it Have not tried it but will do. Any idea on accuracy from a smooth bore. Also whats the max dia? Bill <Sheldon Cooper> Actually, that would be an adult pellet gun. </Sheldon Cooper> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Looks Like an adult BB gun...Like it Have not tried it but will do. Any idea on accuracy from a smooth bore. Also whats the max dia? Bill <Sheldon Cooper> Actually, that would be an adult pellet gun. </Sheldon Cooper> YEP But size matters... Is a .009" squeeze going to up chamber pressure in a bad way??? Or Perfect for accuracy.... Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TopOfClimb 1 Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I’m interested in this one, since my local range only allows slugs from shotguns. I did get some Centurion ball ammo, .650 caliber from SG Ammo. $69 per case of 250. If the gun has a .717 bore, the .650 ball should have plenty of room. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 How do they shoot at 25 yards. Looks very effective at close range but looking for better than musket ball accuracy as those steel plates are 100 yards. At that price looks like a very good value...Less than cheap 44 mag, could you toss a link for purchase. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Bump Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Nobodys going to have a pressure table for s12's, they are russian. But, they can fire 3" magnum, which I imagine will have greater pressure than almost anything else. Also, people shoot slugs through chokes with these guns, probably with more than a .010 constriction, so I imagine that your slugs will be fine with cylinder bore. Also, take apart some other slugs to measure their diameter to compare to the barrel diameter. Edited January 9, 2012 by yooper14.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 As long as the slugs you are using in the Saiga are soft lead it shouldn't be an issue if the slug comes in direct contact with the barrel. Hard alloy sabot slugs should not be used in the Saiga 12 unless the choke has been removed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Unless it is something like this, right? (Hastings Paradox choke.) http://www.midwayusa. com/product/191357/hastings-paradox-sabot-discarding-choke-tube-browning-invector-mossberg-accu-choke-winchester-win-choke-12-gauge These are specifically intended for hard sabots. For mine the packaging and my recollection of the website only forbade use with some remmington full caliber solid copper slugs. Please correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) doublepost removed. I'll replace it with a question and info from ammo I have on hand. I have been intending to do an accuracy comparison with and without the paradox choke. Those cheap slugs above seem like a good candate, as they don't have the stabilizing shape or weight distribution of foster or breneke type slugs. Can anyone tell me if they are worth buying? Also, it looks like there is only a plastic accordion wad behind the ball, not a cup around it. That seems like it would lead the barrel some. The main thing though is if this is the case, it should be safe to shoot through a "full" choke as well.(I just measured mine at .692" at the narrowest point) I would still use the paradox, or cylinder but it would be good to know for sure. The Remington and Winchester brand foster styles say they may be used in rifled, cylinder, and full choke safely on the packaging. Remington slugger 3" 1760 FPS 10oz packaging says, "Rifled slugs may be fired through any choke, however improved cylinder provides best results.These slugs will also perform well in fully rifled barrels and barrels fitted with choke tubes." "Any" seems like a risky statement to make, particularly when every turkey choke I have seen says not to use with slugs or even steel shot. B&P packaging says nothing about the issue.Nor does Federal. Duplex packaging says not to use with any choke smaller than "Full". Edited January 9, 2012 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I made my own this weekend, shoot 25 slugs (I dont have a choke) 25 yards were good, 2 " pattern with 5 shoots. 50 yards was another story, 6" pattern was as best I could do, these are LEE mold slugs, I did not try 100 yards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 TBG-- pellet style or round ball? Off-hand or from a rest? And thanks for reporting your data. OP-- the upper slug you picture is a Gualandi. B&P uses them in their european loads and their 20 ga. shells that they export to the US. They have one of the best reputations for accuracy with any bore type. I have tried to order some of them, but they only ship their low recoil foster type 12 gauge shells to the US so far. The website no longer has them listed for 12 ga, but it may be worth calling. The fosters that they keep in stock shoot great but won't cycle in my s12. R&R apparently uses them for competition. The packaging specifically names a couple of the competitive practical shooting organizations, so I think that is their primary US market. I was getting better groups with those than are being described above, but my memory is rusty and I don't want to make claims that aren't repeatable or at least pictured. I think my next solo range trip is going to be some bench shooting with a bunch of brands to find out what is best. I was just about to order 250 of either the nobel round ball or the centurian for that purpose, but I stopped to measure my paradox choke. It was hard to hold the calipers on the lands, but it looks to be about .719" or .720" If neither of those brands of ammo surround the ball with a shot cup, I am concerned that they won't even be gripped by the rifling. Can any one confirm the construction, or better yet measure the OD of the projectile / shot cup combination? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 TBG-- pellet style or round ball? Off-hand or from a rest? And thanks for reporting your data. Lee slug mold like this, free hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks. Those are supposed to be about the easiest to work with so it is disappointing to read your results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 With out any rifleing you are not gona get any good hits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I've got 5" of rifling. Why are you rolling your own without rifling? It looks to be a lot of work, and not much cheaper if any than the centurion posted above. If you aren't getting good quality results, what is the point? Not trying to be rude, I just don't get it. Do you have a rifled slug gun too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I did not take it as rude, all good here. My Mossberg 500 needs a slug barrel, I have been looking for a deal. Some weekends I shoot 100 to 150 rounds, my S12 is getting very relieable on bulk ammo and heavy loads, from the sholder and hip. It is more for tuning and FUN than anything else. I did try to shot good groups, did not take long to see I need a slug barrel. I did pick up some of that Centurion ball loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I am probably going to order some of the nobelsport of the same thing due to low price unless someone changes my mind in the next day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Finally contacted Ballistic Products. Their answer was these should be fine through an IC Choke. They did say that the DGS slug is a harder lead alloy than the AQ slug. I measured my chokes from by Bennelli and their IC was the same Diameter as the Saiga stock barrel. Plan on loading up a few with Longshot and taking them to the range. I'm looking for 6" at 100Yards. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Bump 5 DGS loaded with 40gr of longshot.... Wont chronograph but will post accuracy with stock sights... Hoping for less than 4" at 50 meters would be ok with 6" as this is the close range SHTF option followed by my Glock 20.... Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpha Kilo 42 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I got rifle like accuracy (to me anyway) at 100yds with an aimpoint in horses mount. I thought I posted it in a build thread, but I can't find it, might as well share it here. This was with regular run of the mill Remington sluggers, I believe it has more to do with the sights than anything. I believe the Russian equivalent would do just as well. wtf the last image I posted was upside down, this one is sideways..... (both fine on my macbook and phone) btw, how cool is that that one round went through the eye socket, and the target has the eyeball laying on the ground! haha 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WLD1783 0 Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 The DGS 1-1/8 oz slug w 40gr of longshot worked great. Groups at 25meters were 3" standing and firing from the shoulder. Given my error I could safely say these are at least 8moa or better through my Saiga using iron sights. Will test for accuracy and chronograph once my rail and Trijicon sight arrive. Kick was a bit less than my OO loads and cycled perfectly on the 1 gas port setting. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.