RoughRider666 47 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) lately ive been hearing all this talk about the "extra power" recoil spring by Wollf and im wonding what all the hype is about... I hear things like, "it reduces recoil and wear and tear on the rifle by not allowing your BCG to slam into the rear trunnion as hard or at all for that matter." the way I see it, the soviets designed these rifles as robust as possible and im quite sure that the first AK-47 that rolled off the assembly line and issued to the Red Army back in 1949 still functions as flawlessly today as the day it was built...unless it was run over by a tank or something lol. anyway, enough rambling...I know that the rubber "recoil buffers" are a joke and can actually increase and speed up wear and tear, but this stiff recoil spring sounds interesting and I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about and see if this might be something worth looking into or if its just a new relabled bottle of "Snake Oil" to attract the sheeple... let me know, -RR Edited June 15, 2012 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 lately ive been hearing all this talk about the "extra power" recoil spring by Wollf and im wonding what all the hype is about... I hear things like, "it reduces recoil and wear and tear on the rifle by not allowing your BCG to slam into the rear trunnion as hard or at all for that matter." the way I see it, the soviets designed these rifles as robust as possible and im quite sure that the first AK-47 that rolled off the assembly line and issued to the Red Army back in 1949 still functions as flawlessly today as the day it was built...unless it was run over by a tank or something lol. anyway, enough rambling...I know that the rubber "recoil buffers" are a joke and can actually increase and speed up wear and tear, but this stiff recoil spring sounds interesting and I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about and see if this might be something worth looking into or if its just a new relabled bottle of "Snake Oil" to attract the sheeple... let me know, -RR And exactly how is that supposed to work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) lately ive been hearing all this talk about the "extra power" recoil spring by Wollf and im wonding what all the hype is about... I hear things like, "it reduces recoil and wear and tear on the rifle by not allowing your BCG to slam into the rear trunnion as hard or at all for that matter." the way I see it, the soviets designed these rifles as robust as possible and im quite sure that the first AK-47 that rolled off the assembly line and issued to the Red Army back in 1949 still functions as flawlessly today as the day it was built...unless it was run over by a tank or something lol. anyway, enough rambling...I know that the rubber "recoil buffers" are a joke and can actually increase and speed up wear and tear, but this stiff recoil spring sounds interesting and I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about and see if this might be something worth looking into or if its just a new relabled bottle of "Snake Oil" to attract the sheeple... let me know, -RR And exactly how is that supposed to work? by not allowing the BCG to go all the way back and the shock of sandwiching the buffer between the BCG and trunnion can cause stress cracks on the rear trunnion rivet holes... Fact or fiction, im not willing to take a chance and find out... A logical thought process tells me that a recoil spring would be better than an "added" piece that wasnt meant to be there in the first place. If the Russians thought they were necessary, they would have been part of the original design... just sayin... Edited June 15, 2012 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) If you're talking about use in an AK rifle (which it sounds like you are), I've not heard of buffers ever causing problems. In some Saiga shotguns (undergassed ones shooting lightweight cheap loads), a buffer has been known to limit the rearward travel of the BCG and basically causes FTFs. Still no wear and tear however. My S12 can run a buffer without a problem. As for increased power recoil springs, I can see it helping to absorb carrier momentum, as well as providing extra forward pressure to help the action close when it starts getting really dirty. Yeah, it would slam the carrier closed harder against the front trunnion, so I guess the extra couple pounds of force MIGHT (in theory) wear the carrier more, but not so you'd ever notice. It's like swinging a hammer with 2 extra pounds of force. I doubt the hammer will care. *edit to add* By the same logic of "If the Russians thought they were necessary, they would have been part of the original design", they don't use extra power springs either. Or aftermarket red dots, custom slings or many of the items we tend to put on our personal weapons. Edited June 15, 2012 by Corbin 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) If you're talking about use in an AK rifle (which it sounds like you are), I've not heard of buffers ever causing problems. In some Saiga shotguns (undergassed ones shooting lightweight cheap loads), a buffer has been known to limit the rearward travel of the BCG and basically causes FTFs. Still no wear and tear however. My S12 can run a buffer without a problem. As for increased power recoil springs, I can see it helping to absorb carrier momentum, as well as providing extra forward pressure to help the action close when it starts getting really dirty. Yeah, it would slam the carrier closed harder against the front trunnion, so I guess the extra couple pounds of force MIGHT (in theory) wear the carrier more, but not so you'd ever notice. It's like swinging a hammer with 2 extra pounds of force. I doubt the hammer will care. *edit to add* By the same logic of "If the Russians thought they were necessary, they would have been part of the original design", they don't use extra power springs either. Or aftermarket red dots, custom slings or many of the items we tend to put on our personal weapons. Good point with the springs. On the a side note though, im not sure if they were just press photos to show off or anything, but I have seen pix of Russian soldiers with Aimpoint, EOtech & Trijicon optics and rail systems and in some instances what looks to be magpul, vltor or US Palm accessories mounted on newer AK 100/200 series rifles... Edited June 15, 2012 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 i dont see them being necessary. its a fuckin AK. sounds more like a marketing gimmick. and if the recoil spring wears to the point that is no longer feeding reliably, simply swap it out. everyone should have replacement springs for all their guns. but like corbin pointed out, putting a stiffer spring in may cause the carrier to slam home harder. i dont see it hurting anything, but i dont see the point in using a stiffer spring either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 The springs are cheap enough.....try it out and see if it makes any difference. As the good Capt said, everyone should have replacement springs anyway. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith524 25 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i haved had one of these wolf xp springs for awhile now and just havent installed it yet. when i do i will let you know. i also bought a 10 pack of the xp mag springs. dont ask me why bc they cost almost as much as new mags. ha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 has anyone here ever heard of a factory ak that started out in good functioning condition breaking any of the main parts from firing, either with a buffer or without one 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 has anyone here ever heard of a factory ak that started out in good functioning condition breaking any of the main parts from firing, either with a buffer or without one better yet, has anyone had a reason to use one of these stiffer springs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 im betting even a century gun could go 50,000 rounds or more before major parts started wearing to the point where function was affected, just take a look at the way they blow through ammo in third world countries, the round counts some of those guns have is ridiculous, and you know none of those guys maintain there guns at all 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all yeah we fired it the otherday and its super accurate, but about every second or third shot the BCG hangs up on the hammer and doesnt feed, and randomly when the BCG gets all the way to the back, it sometimes wants to jump up like its coming out of the receiver. I havent had it back out since we "reprofiled/pollished" the hammer... Edited June 16, 2012 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all yeah we fired it the otherday and its super accurate, but about every second or third shot it hangs up on the hammer and doesnt feed, and randomly when the BCG gets all the way to the back, it sometimes wants to jump up like its coming out of the receiver. I havent had it back out since we "reprofiled/pollished" the hammer... is it a home build? with the recoil spring inserted it should not be able to go back far enough to come out of the receiver, make sure your recoil spring isn't worn or the guide rod isn't broken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all yeah we fired it the otherday and its super accurate, but about every second or third shot it hangs up on the hammer and doesnt feed, and randomly when the BCG gets all the way to the back, it sometimes wants to jump up like its coming out of the receiver. I havent had it back out since we "reprofiled/pollished" the hammer... is it a home build? with the recoil spring inserted it should not be able to go back far enough to come out of the receiver, make sure your recoil spring isn't worn or the guide rod isn't broken It was built from a complete numbers matching original barreled kit on a flat from Curtis. Every numbered piece on that thing matches and the headspace is perfect... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all yeah we fired it the otherday and its super accurate, but about every second or third shot it hangs up on the hammer and doesnt feed, and randomly when the BCG gets all the way to the back, it sometimes wants to jump up like its coming out of the receiver. I havent had it back out since we "reprofiled/pollished" the hammer... is it a home build? with the recoil spring inserted it should not be able to go back far enough to come out of the receiver, make sure your recoil spring isn't worn or the guide rod isn't broken It was built from a complete numbers matching original barreled kit on a flat from Curtis. Every numbered piece on that thing matches and the headspace is perfect... then the problem is either with the recoil spring or the receiver, possibly the rails, try swapping recoil springs and giving the parts a good polish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all yeah we fired it the otherday and its super accurate, but about every second or third shot it hangs up on the hammer and doesnt feed, and randomly when the BCG gets all the way to the back, it sometimes wants to jump up like its coming out of the receiver. I havent had it back out since we "reprofiled/pollished" the hammer... is it a home build? with the recoil spring inserted it should not be able to go back far enough to come out of the receiver, make sure your recoil spring isn't worn or the guide rod isn't broken It was built from a complete numbers matching original barreled kit on a flat from Curtis. Every numbered piece on that thing matches and the headspace is perfect... then the problem is either with the recoil spring or the receiver, possibly the rails, try swapping recoil springs and giving the parts a good polish yeah, like I said we havent shot it since we pollished everything out yet but I can tell you that the rails are straight as an arrow because when it does cycle, its like butter. I think its the hammer itself putting too much tention on the BCG when its cocked and its forcing the BCG up and thats why the hammer needed some encouragement...its when the BCG pops up at the rear of the reciever that really worries/scares me! Edited June 16, 2012 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i dont think it would be over gassed, but swap out the RSA and go from there. something is causing it to fuck up, so its a matter of going through the process of elimination. but putting a stiffer spring in it will only prolong the inevitable and the problem will persist in the end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i dont think it would be over gassed, but swap out the RSA and go from there. something is causing it to fuck up, so its a matter of going through the process of elimination. but putting a stiffer spring in it will only prolong the inevitable and the problem will persist in the end. Yeah, but its a ROMY G. most of those rifles were never even issued and sat in an armory somewhere and were demilled when the Soviet Union fell apart, so in theory the Romy G's are NOS and still brandnew! the Barrel, boltface & piston litterally had NEVER been shot and absolutely ZERO use and wear! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i dont think it would be over gassed, but swap out the RSA and go from there. something is causing it to fuck up, so its a matter of going through the process of elimination. but putting a stiffer spring in it will only prolong the inevitable and the problem will persist in the end. Yeah, but its a ROMY G. most of those rifles were never even issued and sat in an armory somewhere and were demilled when the Soviet Union fell apart, so in theory the Romy G's are NOS and still brandnew! the Barrel, boltface & piston litterally had NEVER been shot and absolutely ZERO use and wear! like i said, change the RSA and go from there. i may be wrong, but i still dont think you'll need a stronger one, just a new one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i dont think it would be over gassed, but swap out the RSA and go from there. something is causing it to fuck up, so its a matter of going through the process of elimination. but putting a stiffer spring in it will only prolong the inevitable and the problem will persist in the end. Yeah, but its a ROMY G. most of those rifles were never even issued and sat in an armory somewhere and were demilled when the Soviet Union fell apart, so in theory the Romy G's are NOS and still brandnew! the Barrel, boltface & piston litterally had NEVER been shot and absolutely ZERO use and wear! thats a good point, but my friend has a recent Romy G build that seems like it doenst wanna cycle too well and the BCG hangs up on the hammer a LOT even after I helped him pollish the shit out of the G2 hammer in effort to give it the same profile of the Romanian hammer... well that's a build, there could be a whole host of problems with it, has he actually fired it or does it just seem rough, because all the romanian guns are rough as hell when new and it doesn't affect function at all yeah we fired it the otherday and its super accurate, but about every second or third shot it hangs up on the hammer and doesnt feed, and randomly when the BCG gets all the way to the back, it sometimes wants to jump up like its coming out of the receiver. I havent had it back out since we "reprofiled/pollished" the hammer... is it a home build? with the recoil spring inserted it should not be able to go back far enough to come out of the receiver, make sure your recoil spring isn't worn or the guide rod isn't broken It was built from a complete numbers matching original barreled kit on a flat from Curtis. Every numbered piece on that thing matches and the headspace is perfect... then the problem is either with the recoil spring or the receiver, possibly the rails, try swapping recoil springs and giving the parts a good polish Put black marker on the op rod. i bet you the piston is hitting and wearing somewhere on the shield. mine was like this. few hits with a mallet and some polishing it worked fine. acted like a bolt hold open towards the rear. yeah, like I said we havent shot it since we pollished everything out yet but I can tell you that the rails are straight as an arrow because when it does cycle, its like butter. I think its the hammer itself putting too much tention on the BCG when its cocked and its forcing the BCG up and thats why the hammer needed some encouragement...its when the BCG pops up at the rear of the reciever that really worries/scares me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1lk 26 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 i put one in combined with a milled rpk recoil assembly in all my builds except for one. just in case Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Sounds like that Romy G does not like the US receiver. That is where a buffer shines, pop in a BJ buffer and it will not jump the rails. A heavier recoil spring may cause short stroking, but might be helpful in an over gassed gun-it will still impart too much energy to the bolt/carrier group when it returns to battery. Some guns already make light impressions on the primer when the bolt slams home, and a stronger return spring may be flirting with slam fires. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Sounds like that Romy G does not like the US receiver. That is where a buffer shines, pop in a BJ buffer and it will not jump the rails. A heavier recoil spring may cause short stroking, but might be helpful in an over gassed gun-it will still impart too much energy to the bolt/carrier group when it returns to battery. Some guns already make light impressions on the primer when the bolt slams home, and a stronger return spring may be flirting with slam fires. its an ak-builder flat bent in an ak-builder bender... his flats/tools are supposed right on par with Russia from all my research. Edited June 16, 2012 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 I tried a buffer and took it out. The AK was not designed to use one like the PPSh-41 which uses a leather buffer. It's not necessary and was a waste of $8.00 which could have gone to buy ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 my post got all 8 up. i had a similar problem with a G rifle. tbe piston was hitting the guide and messing up the action. you can test it with a black marker. paint it and shoot it. you will see the wear marks and get a good idea where its hitting. might help. good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Lots of receiver problems on kit builds. From too soft, holes out of spec, twisted receiver box from bad riveting - it goes on and on. My Romy G I built on a NoDak functions perfectly - BUT even the well worn fore grip that came with the kit needed the bottom shaved to fit. NoDak is .5MM shorter in the front than the original front receiver stub that came with the parts kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 The extra power spring is useful when firing hot-loaded NATO surplus in a 5.56/.223 AK. It does have a tendency to throw the BCG hard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 my post got all 8 up. i had a similar problem with a G rifle. tbe piston was hitting the guide and messing up the action. you can test it with a black marker. paint it and shoot it. you will see the wear marks and get a good idea where its hitting. might help. good luck. some pix would be VERY helpful, im a visual kinda guy...just sayin... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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