Tommy Gun Mags?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Ok who's familiar with the Thompson SMG? Besides the various drums on the market, what other mags will work? I have an Auto Ordinance 1927 A-1 .45 ACP. The gun is a beauty and a beast, weighing in at 12 lb with no mag, and over 18 lb with a full 50 rd drum. Those movies showing Dillinger and others running around fleeing the cops, jumping creeks and holding one in one outstretched arm while doing this?....Oh really? LOL yeah right! Sorry maybe Arnie or Sly when they were younger, but I don't believe Johnny Depp has it in him...Anyway I love the drum but want some stick mags to use most of the time, for lighter weight and ease of carry / loading. It's a PITA to load the drum compared to a stick mag, and takes three hands to put it in the rifle.

So what do I need to look for in stick mags for this baby? I've heard of some folks modifying Sten mags to work. Is this a viable alternative to the more expensive NOS Thompson mags? Are they reliable? How many people here have experience with this?

 

TIA

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I've never heard of sten mags working - really doesn't make much sense, the width is way too low to fit two .45 ACP cartridges in a double stack. I suppose with a ton of work, including milling out the rear of the magazine and welding in a plate to accommodate the longer cartridge, grinding the heck out of the feed lips, and reworking the follower, you might be able to fit about 20 rounds of .45 ACP into a Sten mag in a semi-staggered stack. I think there would be a lot of problems with binding.

 

It's much easier just to use Thompson magazines. The magazine catch is slightly different on the Auto Ordnance weapons, but the Thompson mags can be pretty readily modified to fit, or you can change out your magazine catch to use stock Thompson mags. If price was the big concern - well, I have a bunch of blued Thompson mags up for sale in the classified section right now, $16 each.

[HART1 92]

I love tommy guns!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I'm definitely interested in checking those out there Shandlanos.

 

I was also mistaken about the Sten mags, like you were saying. It was what someone told me and I hadn't looked into them yet. It was actually Grease Gun mags that he was thinking about when he said that.

[gunfun 3,931]

I used to see GI tommygun mags still packed in crates and full of .45 for about the cost of ammo in shotgun news all the time. I bet you can get the real deal cheaply and just replace the old springs.

[HART1 92]

I found you some stick mags at Numrich.

Did a seach for tommy gun mags and they came up on page 6 I think?

30 rounders made by commando arms $28.70 each

and

20 rounders made by thompson $34.40 each

 

Kahr arms

20 rounders $29.99

[termite 463]

You can use the older surplus Tommy gun mags. You just have to open up the hole for the mag catch. I have a Tommy Pistol, and a butt load of stick mags that work just fine in it. As you said, load up the drum and lug it around, I don't fricking think so. The drum is fun to shoot in it, but to heavy to be practical in my pistol. Sportsmanguide used to sell the stick mags, 6 or 10 to a pack, I can't remember where I bought all mine, either there or CDNN, CTD, or centerfire.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I sure would like to use real Thompson mags rather than having to modify other mags to work. What exactly is iot that makes the Auto Ordinance 27 A-1 different to where it has to take mags not made by Thompson? (other than being semi of course...) I thought I read when I bought this thing, that the Khar Arms takeover in production was where they changed for the worse somehow? Thought I remembered reading the AO models were the best you could get aside from the originals.

Also would be nice to know how to tell the actual MFG date on it, if it's easy to find. Yes I know...research. I don't have any spare time so any info or advice is appreciated. I want to find a regular forearm for it too....maybe Numerich would have those too?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Some porn....here's what she looks like. Man I love this thing!

 

 

 

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I sure would like to use real Thompson mags rather than having to modify other mags to work. What exactly is iot that makes the Auto Ordinance 27 A-1 different to where it has to take mags not made by Thompson? (other than being semi of course...) I thought I read when I bought this thing, that the Khar Arms takeover in production was where they changed for the worse somehow? Thought I remembered reading the AO models were the best you could get aside from the originals.

Also would be nice to know how to tell the actual MFG date on it, if it's easy to find. Yes I know...research. I don't have any spare time so any info or advice is appreciated. I want to find a regular forearm for it too....maybe Numerich would have those too?

 

Cobra - when you say you're looking for a regular forearm, do you mean the M1 Thompson forearm, like this?

 

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHSZK36CmnkO6g3JrLY6TTH5bKO8nmBe0m-p0lToWYmN0fBTFg&t=1

 

If so, I have an acquaintance who has a few, I can ask how much he'd like for one.

 

As for what makes it different - I'm not 100% sure, all I know is that it's a different shape and/or size, so stock mags, or the mag catch, have to be modified.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Yeah bro that's the one. I was just thinking of I could find one somewhere without spending too much, it would be cool to have interchangeability. Hopefully I can get a half decent color match with it, without having to refinish. Hell I wouldn't even mind milling my own out of a chunk of Walnut but I at least need one to duplicate.

 

So those mags you are selling won't work at all? Even with mods? I'll try to look it up and see what I find out.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Yeah bro that's the one. I was just thinking of I could find one somewhere without spending too much, it would be cool to have interchangeability. Hopefully I can get a half decent color match with it, without having to refinish. Hell I wouldn't even mind milling my own out of a chunk of Walnut but I at least need one to duplicate.

 

So those mags you are selling won't work at all? Even with mods? I'll try to look it up and see what I find out.

 

Oh, with mods, they'll definitely work - and compared to some of the shit you've made/modified, it'll be easy. Some prefer to mod the mags, some prefer to mod the gun.

 

This thread is fairly enlightening:

 

http://1919a4.com/showthread.php?24212-Thompson-Mag-Release

[HART1 92]

Cobra,

Got bored and did a little looking into this mag problem. This what I've found so far. The mag fitting on these looks to be very easy from what I've seen so far. It's really hard to even find anything, but it looks like all you have to do is a very slight mod to the back of the mag. There is also another option. Just mod the mag catch and use any mag, with no mods.

If it was my gun. I'd just get an extra mag catch from a 1927 Thompson to mod and be done with it.

http://www.gunpartsc...90A&catid=11082

 

Using the Thompson Stick magazines.

 

 

 

 

 

Though these guns are forever associated with their drum magazines, it has always been far more common to see a Thompson loaded with a twenty or thirty round stick magazine. This was particularly true after the introduction of the M1 models, during the Second World War. These newly designed models, stripped down for ease of manufacture, were not capable of taking the drum magazines. This was due, in large part, to the cost of the drum magazines, but weight, and the relative fragility of the complicated winding mechanisms were also factors. Millions of M1 Thompsons were manufactured, while the drum capable 1921, and 1928 models numbered only in the thousands.

The drums could also be quite a chore to load, and maintain, and were fairly difficult to install, particularly in the heat of battle. If the small "Third Hand" used to install the drums was lost, installation could be next to impossible. Drums were also susceptible to denting, overwinding (or lack of winding), and could make the already heavy guns really clumsy to handle.

The original Thompson stick magazines had a capacity of 20 rounds; for extended firing, the drum magazine was used. When the military redesigned the Thompson for the Second World War, the drums were not considered to be practical. It was also noted that several additional manufacturing steps were required, to make the guns capable of accepting them. These steps were eliminated from the M1 versions, which served to simplify manufacturing, thus the cut out, and guide slots needed for the drums were deleted from the design. The external magazine latch was also deleted.

To partially make up for the firepower lost by the M1 incompatibility with the old drum magazines, newly designed stick magazines, introduced in 1942, now had a capacity of 30 rounds. One unique characteristic of both types of stick magazine is the inclusion of a vertical rail at the rear of the magazine body. Though this would not have been needed on the M1 versions, had they been designed with a magazine well, it had been a requirement on the old drum capable Thompsons, because of the interference that a magazine well would have caused to installation of the drum. Thus the newly designed stick magazines would fit the previous drum capable models, many of which were in use by U.S. forces at the time. It would also be possible to use the stock piles of existing Thompson sticks, without modification in the new M1 models. This course was not followed with the introduction of the Thompson's successor, the M-3 "Grease Gun". The M-3 had a magazine well, and used single track magazines, which were much simpler, and easier to manufacture. The comparatively crude, and primitive M-3 never inspired the kind of admiration or cultishness that was lavished upon the Thompson.

The Thompson stick magazines are of the double column type, much like a modern high capacity pistol magazine; but they require no magazine well. Unlike most high capacity magazines, which are completely encased in their tight fitting magazine wells, those of the Thompson hang out in the open. They are held in place by a partially enclosed slot milled into the gun's receiver. The rail on the back of the magazine fits up this slot, and guides the magazine into place. A catch within the slot engages a hole in the magazine's guide rail, locking it in place. So the catch is on the back of the magazine, rather than the more familiar side, as in most pistol and assault rifle magazines. These magazines are also substantial, and do not have the throw away design of many contemporary designs.

I mentioned above that efforts were made to retain compatibility between different magazine styles, and the different Thompson firearms; but this was not always perfect. The modern Thompson expects to find a hole for the magazine catch an inch below the top of the vertical rail at the rear of the magazine. All modern magazines are so constructed, but there are some surplus mags which differ slightly. These magazines have the hole just a fraction of an inch too low, and will not lock properly into the firearm. This was done intentionally, by the military, so that the magazines could be fitted to particular runs of rifles, some of which might vary due to wartime production economies. The solution is simply to slightly raise, and enlarge the hole with a file. In many cases, you will find that this has already been done, either by the Army, a factory refurbishment, or a previous owner. If you look at the photo of my stick magazine, above, you will note that the hole for the catch is somewhat oval. Compare this to the photo at left, of an unmodified, WWII surplus, magazine, next to a modified magazine, and you will note that the hole for the catch is round. If you should purchase a surplus stick magazine, which was never issued, and still in the wrap, you may have to perform this little task yourself. The best tool for this is a plain old half round file, though a moto tool might also be used, if proper care is exercised. Using a file, you should check the fit of the magazine after every few strokes. It is very important not to take off too much metal, or the magazine will be ruined, at least for your particular gun. You can always take off a bit more metal, but you can not add it back on again, if you take off too much. I want to emphasize the fact that these magazines are not defective. Having to make this modification is normal, and the magazines were made this way intentionally, so that the magazines could be fitted to any run of Thompsons, made by any manufacturer. As a matter of fact, if you have an older Thompson, this modification will not be needed, and a modified magazine will not fit properly.

During the clinton magazine ban, the stick magazines were in relatively good supply, and once the initial panic ebbed, they were available at reasonable prices. At the same time, drum magazines were nearly impossible to find, and once found, sold for nearly as much money as the, rather expensive, guns did themselves. The stick magazines are now easily available, very cheap, and are legal in most places. For about $100, I bought a set of seven, shown to the right along side the original stick that came with the gun. All needed modification in order to fit in my gun. This is cheaper than most pistol magazines, and is probably a reflection of the fact that there are millions of sticks out there, made for war time M1 Thompsons, but not too many civilian owned models these days. The drums, too, are more readily available, though in all honesty, the introduction of the 30 round stick, for war use, makes the weight, complication, and expense of the drum a bit silly, and hard to justify. Still, along with my sticks, I have several drums. This is, after all, a Thompson, but more about that in the next section

<a href="

http://www.notpurfec...pson.html#stick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also found this. I personaly like this one much better. "Just mod the mag catch".

 

All the mags I have are the same; manufacturing specs in WW2 were tight, so all the makes and models are dead-on.

 

The problem with the oblong-hole modded mags (after you do option 2), is that the hole is too big for the new catch, the mag will rock in the slot, and the damn thing will fall out of the gun during firing, because of the vibrations.

 

Best thing to do is throw out the modded mags (some guys weld them back up, and re-file the hole, but that's a helluva lotta work), and get a new mag catch for the Tommy (or modify yours).

 

Here's some pics of my mod:

Before:

 

After:

 

You can see the catch goes from a shallow notch and oblong button (pic 1), to a deeper notch, rounder button (pic 3), to fit the hole in the FA mags.

http://kahrtalk.com/...hread.php?t=766

Edited August 28, 2012 by ARMOR

[HART1 92]

Yeah bro that's the one. I was just thinking of I could find one somewhere without spending too much, it would be cool to have interchangeability. Hopefully I can get a half decent color match with it, without having to refinish. Hell I wouldn't even mind milling my own out of a chunk of Walnut but I at least need one to duplicate.

 

So those mags you are selling won't work at all? Even with mods? I'll try to look it up and see what I find out.

 

I found the horizonal foregrip you wanted on ebay for $15

http://www.ebay.com/...n-/370642206860

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Oh well damn! That's a no brainer then! If the mag catches are interchangeable and available I need to get one ordered ASAP. I'll look into what's involved in removing it. I sure appreciate both of you guy's time on this. I got this gun for my birthday last Aug 31st and now with just a few days left til another B day rolls around, I still haven't shot it much due to waiting on the stick mags I need for it. Nothing really wrong with the drum, it's brand spankin new like the rifle, it's just heavy and a PITA to use. I've got it sitting loaded and ready for SHTF or good times spraying 5 lb of lead...lol. I hope these drums can take being left loaded, never thought about that really...

Checked out that HG too Armor. Thanks man I'll try to win that. Looks like the same guy also has a NOS forward vert grip. I like the way the more rounded ones look with deeper, more rounded looking finger grooves and the sharper point at the bottom. I'm gonna try and get that too. I could easily do that with mine, or mod the catch for that matter, but would rather keep the original parts as is since it's new / unfired.... well except maybe ten rds or less I put through it to check for function. Hell maybe I'll have to hunt down an extra stock as well, and refinish the whole extra set genuine Russian Red

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Damn I just thought of something. If I change my mag catch then my drum prolly won't fit any more...

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Damn I just thought of something. If I change my mag catch then my drum prolly won't fit any more...

 

It shouldn't be a problem - with a little research you can get the dimensions from the 21A/M1928 that took both drums and sticks, and figure out a solution that takes into account the .1" variance in receiver depth. Modding your mag catch should work just fine.

[{ROS}_me 32]

Mostly off topic.

Will a Thompson mag. fit into a Saiga 410 , is this possibly not legal ......fireing 45 from a shotty?

Just a crazy idea that popped thru me head awhile back.

[Groovy Mike 36]

Mostly off topic.

Will a Thompson mag. fit into a Saiga 410 , is this possibly not legal ......fireing 45 from a shotty?

 

 

No - not even close.

 

As for the Sten mags - they fit some of the 9mm version of the Thompson like Commando Arms Mk9.

Some tommy guns were made to accept the WW2 grease gun mags too.

 

It just depends on which tommy gun you've got. I'd love to pick up another Commando Arms Mk9 - 9mm is just as fun to shoot at the range as 45 but at half the cost!